8" Butterfly valve installation

I am building a penstock for a micro hydro power plant. I am installing a 8" gear drive butterfly valve by Nibco - it is a "WAFER" style. Can anyone comment on types of flanges needed for installation?

Its a new $500 us made valve from Graingers on closeout for 100 bucks, but no flanges are available.

I am a long way from the "flange guy" and need to do some layout without a days drive to fool around in the city. Cannot seem to find the info on the net, its so obscure a subject.

I understand the bolt up or lug flanges, but this wafer stlye has me stumped.

I will try and post a link here to show the issue.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/NIBCO-Butterfly-Valve-1WPF1

Different brand, but this might help (see pg. 9)

http://www.milwaukeevalve.com/data/pdf/MILWAUKEE_IOM-06.pdf

Edit: Here is some more info to show the differences between the styles.

http://www.nibco.com/assets/valveselect.pdf

I don't have much experience with this style either, but I am almost 100% sure that you only need a Class 125/150 flange on the pipes that this connects to and bolts/nuts that pass through these flanges with this valve pinned in between them. It is similar to the lug style valve, just without the lugs.

Most of my experience is with the lug style or the flanged style.

nukeman is correct, a standard flange will fit.

It'll install like this:

Thanks. Odd picture though - where is the second mating flange? Its a 8" valve in a "yellow mine" high impact schd 80 6" pvc pipe. Thus little or no head loss.

Whats amazing is that the simple flanges are selling for about 80 bucks EACH. More than the valve. Anyone have some 8" flanges in the yard?

Looks like the main issue with a wafer style is you cannot use it in dead end service.

The handle on this valve is worth 100 bucks alone. Painted blue, twice the size as the photo, Brass or bronze - have to polish it up.

That pics just shows a cut away. It was the only decent pic I could find of an installed valve. If you do a google image search for this type of valve, you get a ton of pics, but pretty much all are of the valve only. I'm not sure what you mean about the 2nd mating flange. You put one flange on each pipe end and run the bolts through them. Just like bolting two pipe flanges together normally, but you just happen to have a valve in between. There should be some gasket type material around the valve to make the seal. Your link is no longer working for me, but I believe that is the case. I seem to recall that it mentions that no other gasket is needed.

I also recall reading in your Grainger link that this valve is rated for dead end service and no blind flange is required, but I am not sure how you could mount it in that case.

I know what you mean on the flanges. As you go larger, the price really jumps. Even PVC stuff is expensive in 8". I recall the price was $100-$150 each for some 8" PVC elbow/tees that I used on an experiment several years back. We often used carbon steel flanges when metal was needed (where we could), but often we had to go with stainless due to the conditions. You can imagine that a 15" 316 SS flange is not cheap. In the nuke plants, the piping can be 32"-42" diameter (all high pressure too), so things get really $$$.

I'm not sure where you have tried for the flanges, but you might check McMaster-Carr and see if they have what you need.

Two companion flanges, (NOT a flanged union with the valve between the two pieces), with long bolts or threaded rod with two nuts to hold it all together.

Try a fire sprinkler supplier.... Fun Stuff

Thanks for the tips. Yes, the valve has a seal incorporated-cast into the mating surface for the flanges. Looks like wafer style simply snags the valve between the standard flanges, pvc in my case, and while bolting it up, one must operate the valve and make certain that there is no interference with the disk, since there is some play in the flange assembly.

Flanges I find are about 80 bucks each and reducers 25$ each. I suppose the flanges are such a small industry that they can get whatever they ask. And once used, no body would ever think to salvage them.

This depression has, however, made my pipe costs small. "yellomine" high impact schd 80 pipe is rated for full sun exposure, and the 800' I bought for $400 probably set back the defunct company 5 or 6 thousand dollars. Yellowmine has an odd lubed o-ring and spline insert lock system for moving it about mine sites. I am going to clean up the $50 couplers of lube and glue them up for a permanent installation.

Just got some 12" GF schd 80 PVC water for a buck a foot, NEW. Need a tractor to move a stick. Bad times make good deals.

quote; Bad times make good deals.

And a deal is only GOOD, if it is something you actually need. The valve is designed so that you do NOT have to operate it during the installation. It has the necessary clearances so that it will NOT snag, no matter how it is positioned between the flanges. WHY do you need reducers?

He needs reducers because his valve is 8" and the pipe is 6" (assuming the 6" isn't a typo).

Remember that you'll also need a short section of 8" pipe on either side as this valve is designed to swing within the pipe. If it were a flanged style valve, the valve would swing within itself and you could reduce it right away.

So, you'll need:

(2) - 8" flanges
(2) - 8" to 6" reducers
couple feet of 8" pipe

According to the MFG. operation to 10' during assembly is critical to avoid any binding due to the wafer style not having precise alignment within the flanges - slop in bolts...

And thanks, 8" on 6" for head preservation. Pays back on hydro.

Looks like I can get deep flanges and a bushing so that the 8" pipe is not needed.

And by the way, who would not need 30$ a foot pipe for 1$? Culvert, caisson, playground, telescope, - your imagination is the limit. Or sell it for $25 a foot and make everyone happy.

Speaking of un-needed bargains, just bought 400, 36" x 96" Brand new fiberglas dual pane entry doors, wrapped on pallets from the housing tract door company that is now bank owned. paid .28 cents each. Probably a 200$ door each.

REALLY bad times make GREAT bargains, as long a it doesnt get so bad that food and guns would have been a better investment.

You guys should have a look at "Bidspotter" and see where we REALLY are - it dont make the evening news.

http://www.nibco.com/assets/valveselect.pdf

In the description in this link on page 5, it says this type of valve cannot be used as an isolation valve. I do not understand then why it exists. What else do you use a valve for. It is either open or shut to hold back fluids and pressure. What good is it?

It could be a mattter of the meaning of the word "isolation", and to their desire for you to use other valves for full on ful loff service.

What I believe they refer to is that because this valve is trapped between two flanges, you cannot remove it without opening both upstream and downstream pipes to the atmosphere.

Other valves may be removed ONE side at a time and keep that line closed.

Not an issue often, and certainly not for 20 psi of stream water in this case.

Somewhere in their documentation, I find that they want to see "occasional" cycling of the valve, and that this is designed toward a "control" valve, where it will be adjusting a flow rather than OFF and ON, [perhaps for years at a time] for which you are directed to gate and ball valves.

Now you just need to find 400 people who need, or want, 36"x96" fiberglass entry doors. If they were beating down doors to get them, you would NOT have been able to purchase them that cheaply. You may end up selling the last 380, for fifty cents each to get them out of the way.

Brand new, insulated, weatherproof, full insulated glass. Already have several begging for a greenhouse/sunhouse with these as the walls. Also have a few hundred at 32x80 if that suits you better.