Unlacquered brass

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Mirilla

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Hello Newbie here. I am building a brand new, 300-year olde English country-informed house and think I want unlacquered plumbing fixtures that will go verdigris over time. Does anyone know of a line that would meet all my needs -- kitchen, bath, shower, powder room -- and where unlacquered is a consistent option? Truth to tell I am feeling utterly overwhelmed by the number of manufacturers out there, much less with their myriad options.

Thanks much.
 

hj

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You have to search. There is one company, and the name escapes me right now, that states that their faucets will change appearance over time. Most use the laquer so they can advertise a "lifetime" finish without developing a patina. It think you will find that the discoloration will be very random, and maybe NOT the result you are looking for.
 

Jimbo

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There is a large variation in the alloy used by companies. You could expect something made in China ( including perhaps some foo-foo brands like Danze or St. Thomas) to be made of "trash-brass". The patination of such materials will be variable and unpredictable.
 

Mirilla

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Heavens! You mean brass isn't necessarily brass? Hmm. Perhaps that's where the phrase solid brass comes in; I do see that here and there. I was scared away by Rohl's BEAUTIFUL shower unit when I learned it runs $5,000 . . . doubtless largely because it's solid brass. :(
 

hj

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Solid brass is one thing. What, or how, the brass is made is what differs. The $5,000.00 price has NOTHING to do with anything other than what they think people will pay for them. In fact, many "$2,000.00" faucets are nothing other than a $100.00 faucet with "custom" handles and trim pieces. Usually even the drain assembly is from the cheapr faucet.
 

Mirilla

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Is this scary or what? Methinks one has to get up very early in the morning to stay ahead of business shenanigans. Well, we know that from Wall Street, do we not. As I suspect one is not allowed to recommend brands on this forum, would you say I could trust CONSUMER REPORTS? In that periodical I did read something to the effect that if one went with solid brass and a lifetime warranty, s/he would be safe.
 

Ian Gills

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I love the way Americans just adore dirty brass!

Brass is great, but laquer is the only way to go.

A real olde English house would never have dirty brass!
 

Mirilla

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:))) Ok, Ian. I suspect you may be a Brit so I should probably listen to you. Still, dirty is one thing while delicate drifts of teal verdigris something else, surely.
 

Geniescience

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Each metal comes in 10,000 different recipes inside. Look at the article in wikipedia about stainless steel and you'll get clear descriptions of many versions of Stainless. Brass, being an alloy to start with, doesn't even get to be "pure metal" of one kind. It's a mix. But a metal, like aluminum for example, can be of a number of "kinds". Some aluminum corrodes fast, some doesn't. It's because of the recipe determining how it was made, with minor impurities, or additives or whatnot.

I've seen handmade taps, all brass. Learn how to solder and you're all set. It's really easy. Then, buy some valves, plunk them in and suddenly now you're an artisan, a new Michelangelo, an innovator, an inspiration. Bet you never saw that coming.
 

Jimbo

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types of brass:
Brass types
  • Admiralty brass contains 30% zinc, and 1% tin which inhibits dezincification in many environments.
  • Aich's alloy typically contains 60.66% copper, 36.58% zinc, 1.02% tin, and 1.74% iron. Designed for use in marine service owing to its corrosion resistance, hardness and toughness. A characteristic application is to the protection of ships' bottoms, but more modern methods of cathodic protection have rendered its use less common. Its appearance resembles that of gold.[22]
  • Alpha brasses with less than 35% zinc, are malleable, can be worked cold, and are used in pressing, forging, or similar applications. They contain only one phase, with face-centered cubic crystal structure. Prince's metal or Prince Rupert's metal is a type of alpha brass containing 75% copper and 25% zinc. Due to its beautiful yellow color, it is used as an imitation of gold.[23] The alloy was named after Prince Rupert of the Rhine.
  • Alpha-beta brass (Muntz metal), also called duplex brass, is 35–45% zinc and is suited for hot working. It contains both α and β' phase; the β'-phase is body-centered cubic and is harder and stronger than α. Alpha-beta brasses are usually worked hot.
  • Aluminium brass contains aluminium, which improves its corrosion resistance. It is used for seawater service[24] and also in Euro coins (Nordic gold).
  • Arsenical brass contains an addition of arsenic and frequently aluminium and is used for boiler fireboxes.
  • Beta brasses, with 45–50% zinc content, can only be worked hot, and are harder, stronger, and suitable for casting.
  • Cartridge brass is a 30% zinc brass with good cold working properties.
  • Common brass, or rivet brass, is a 37% zinc brass, cheap and standard for cold working.
  • DZR brass is dezincification resistant brass with a small percentage of arsenic.
  • Gilding metal is the softest type of brass commonly available. An alloy of 95% copper and 5% zinc, gilding metal is typically used for ammunition components.
  • High brass contains 65% copper and 35% zinc, has a high tensile strength and is used for springs, screws, and rivets.
  • Leaded brass is an alpha-beta brass with an addition of lead. It has excellent machinability.
  • Lead-free brass as defined by California Assembly Bill AB 1953 contains "not more than 0.25 percent lead content".[18]
  • Low brass is a copper-zinc alloy containing 20% zinc with a light golden color and excellent ductility; it is used for flexible metal hoses and metal bellows.
  • Manganese brass is a brass most notably used in making golden dollar coins in the United States. It contains roughly 70% copper, 29% zinc, and 1.3% manganese.[25]
  • Muntz metal is about 60% copper, 40% zinc and a trace of iron, used as a lining on boats.
  • Nickel brass is composed of 70% copper, 24.5% zinc and 5.5% nickel used to make pound coins in the pound sterling currency.
  • Naval brass, similar to admiralty brass, is 40% zinc and 1% tin.
  • Nordic gold, used in 10, 20 and 50 cts euro coins, contains 89% copper, 5% aluminium, 5% zinc, and 1% tin.
  • Red brass is both an American term for the copper-zinc-tin alloy known as gunmetal, and an alloy which is considered both a brass and a bronze. It typically contains 85% copper, 5% tin, 5% lead, and 5% zinc.[26] Red brass is also an alternative name for copper alloy C23000, which is composed of 14–16% zinc, 0.05% iron and lead, and the remainder copper.[27] It may also refer to ounce metal, another copper-zinc-tin alloy.
  • Rich low brass (Tombac) is 15% zinc. It is often used in jewelry applications.
  • Tonval brass (also called CW617N or CZ122 or OT58) is a copper-lead-zinc alloy. It is not recommended for seawater use, being susceptible to dezincification.[28][29]
  • White brass contains more than 50% zinc and is too brittle for general use. The term may also refer to certain types of nickel silver alloys as well as Cu-Zn-Sn alloys with high proportions (typically 40%+) of tin and/or zinc, as well as predominantly zinc casting alloys with copper additive.
  • Yellow brass is an American term for 33% zinc brass
 

Ian Gills

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I have an unlaquered brass mailbox.

And I polish it every week.

No verdigris for me.

The irony is the original owner removed the laquer!

I can't replace it because they just don't make brass like they used to. I love all-American brass products but nearly everything is from China nowadays and firms like Virginia metalcrafters have closed.

Americans can't make good toilets (or cars) but they can sure as heck make a sconce, doorstop or ashtray when they turn their minds to it.

I even used brass escucheons in the bathroom because chrome ones rust. And my electrical wall plates are all brass too.

Brass is best. Just keep it clean.

Same goes for copper too. There are some great US-made copper products. Dryer vents, gutters...the works. I love 'em all.

Note: Don't clean laquered brass products with brass cleaner!
 
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Jimbo

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At the price, you would expect that to be solid brass. Ask them. NOW, more importantly how is it finished? If it is lacquered brass, the finish appearance will usually be awful as the laquer wears off unevenly. I don't recall seeing any faucets made of UNlaquered brass. Most people want the shine, and don't want the maintenence. Today, I would never buy ANY faucet if the finish was not PVD. I didn't see that mentioned in your link.

What is the best finish....easy answer: polished chrome. You are asking for trounble with anything else. The PVD pol. brass dont seem to have quite the brilliance of the old PB. And all the new finishes....satin nickel, ORB, victorian brass, brushed chrome, etc . turn out to be vulnerable to cleaning products. The manuacturer's cleaning instructions say to use nothing but a soft damp cloth, no cleaning agents at all. The finishes can get splotchy.
 

Ian Gills

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Check where that faucet is made, but it looks just too shiny and Chinese to me.

An American-made brass faucet is what you need. Perhaps Toto brassware or Chicago faucets.
Something like this. This really is the dog's bs.

http://www.chicagofaucetshoppe.com/Chicago_Faucets_736_D370CPB_p/736-d370cpb.htm

And, yes, I would put that $900 faucet on a Mustee.

I've been stung by expensive Chinese brass before, most recently a chandalier. Yes it looks nice, so it stays, but it's just not American brassware. You know as soon as you take it out of the box.

The only thing better than American brassware is English brassware.

You learnt from the best.

All except the plumbers, that is. And not the Irish either.
 
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Asktom

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I'm always leery of mixing polished brass faucets and salt air.

Ian, I see you are slipping towards being a Chicago fan (although you haven't got the chrome/quaturn part down yet). Also, giving your mail box a spit shine with clear shoe polish should keep you from having to play with it every weekend.
 

Mirilla

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Can only have been all over the Web today on this @%#% project. Thinking to go with Sunrise Specialty both for the traditional look as well as their uncoated brass option. The company assured me by phone today that the units will arrive polished but will not remain that way. Rather within a year or two there will be bits of verdigris. Would much appreciate hearing from anyone familiar with this brand -- good, bad or indifferent. Thank you much.
 

Ballvalve

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Can only have been all over the Web today on this @%#% project. Thinking to go with Sunrise Specialty both for the traditional look as well as their uncoated brass option. The company assured me by phone today that the units will arrive polished but will not remain that way. Rather within a year or two there will be bits of verdigris. Would much appreciate hearing from anyone familiar with this brand -- good, bad or indifferent. Thank you much.

I have done several copper roofs and worked with artists on copper and brass patinas for railings and hoods. Do a search for Patina, brass, or copper, and you will find a multitude of common household liquids that will age noble metals in a moment.

It is a VERY old art, or science, used by artisans worldwide. Get a piece pf copper and dip it in bleach, battery acid, tannic acid, lime-away, cat pee, or ones own, and you will see a world of possibilities.

THEN you laquer it with a catalyzed laquer or a good catalyzed varnish to hold the tone for a good bit of time. Then you polish it and do it all over again. Basic laquer has virtually no air excluding qualities.

Copper, at least will ultimately go to green, no matter what you do. It will then hold for a century or two unless you have a lot of acid rain.
 
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