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Kevz
09-23-2005, 01:06 AM
We had the water lines and washer drain moved in our laundry room the other side of the room. I normally do the basic stuff but didn't want to mess with this since the new drain couldn't tie into where the old came up.

So the plumbers tapped into a cast iron stack where a clean out was. I just want to make sure this is done correct and vented properly.. I didn't think anything of it until I saw some remodel show and when he tapped into the drain for a laundry drain he mentioned how he had to either run a new vent or some other thing he attached to vent it..

I can't really think of why it wouldn't be since that stack has a sink and toilet and the old laundry eventually went down there(Although we never used it in this house yet since we are still working on the laundry room)

Sorry if itís a bad question, just don't want to finish remodeling that room and have some problem with the drain.

Picture 1 shows where they tied in and the 2nd is where the drain goes up through the floor into the laundry room right above.

Thanks

hj
09-23-2005, 06:50 AM
1. You do not "tap in where the cleanout was", unless you also add a fitting to restore a cleanout.
2. You do not normally put the washer trap under the floor since that creates a long riser pipe which could cause the trap to lose its seal from the water's inertia.
3. But that is academic since he does not have a vent on the drain, at least none that shows in your pictures, so the trap will siphon and lose its seal everytime the washer is used.
4. Call him back to do a proper job or get a better plumber.

plumber1
09-23-2005, 08:02 AM
Where I live, if you use a c.o. for a connection, you can't reduce the size of the cleanout......

Kevz
09-23-2005, 11:45 AM
1. You do not "tap in where the cleanout was", unless you also add a fitting to restore a cleanout.
2. You do not normally put the washer trap under the floor since that creates a long riser pipe which could cause the trap to lose its seal from the water's inertia.
3. But that is academic since he does not have a vent on the drain, at least none that shows in your pictures, so the trap will siphon and lose its seal everytime the washer is used.
4. Call him back to do a proper job or get a better plumber.

Thanks for the reply.. They did put another fitting to restore a cleanout, its just smaller and looks like it would be much harder to use if ever needed.

The pipe coming out of the floor is will be a little over 36 inches, which is what was recommended by the washer we are getting.. How should the trap been installed?

The only vent that I know of this set of drains which is for the toilet and a sink in the half bath and now for this laundry drain is one that comes off the drain for the sink in the wall and goes out.

Is not enough, what should have been done if not?

Just want to figure out as much as I can before I call and ask him about it.

Thanks for your time.

toolaholic
09-24-2005, 08:32 AM
do you understand this? it,s a serious health safety situation for you and family

hj
09-24-2005, 09:19 AM
A "reduced size" cleanout is neither proper or adequate. The vent should be attached into the horizontal pipe after the trap. The riser may be 36" above the floor, but it also has additional 10" to 12" below the floor.

Terry
09-24-2005, 11:03 AM
http://terrylove.com/images/washer_rough_b.jpg
Rough-in for a washer and a laundry tray.
The washer p-trap should be on the same floor as the washer.
A trap below the floor can siphon out.
Notice the hammer arrestors on the water supplies.
Washers have solenoid valves that shut off quickly, and thats why you may want water hammer protection to soften the impact to your washer.
The drain is a 2" pipe and the vents here are 1.5".

Kevz
09-24-2005, 12:08 PM
Thank you for the replies.

Would putting one of those autovents on the horizontal run be enough?

Then fixing the trap of course.

Thank you

hj
09-24-2005, 01:38 PM
It will help, assuming it is installed properly, which given the level of expertise demonstrated so far it might not be.

Kevz
09-24-2005, 01:41 PM
I plan on calling another plumber now, we are remodeling a lot and I don't need problems like this. I am just glad this mess wasn't in a finished wall or something. Think I will just bite the bullet and not even try to have them fix it and call someone else in and ask them to look it over, hopefully they will point out the problems and I will go with whoever does.

Thank you for all your help.

TheLink
09-29-2005, 08:20 PM
In the picture showing a rough-in for a washer and a laundry tray. If the pipe above what will be the laundry tray is a vent. Isn't the pipe between the laundry sink and the drain for the washer a wet vent? Making the other vent in that picture redundant.

Also, is there a reason a sweep tee was used to tap in the vent?

Terry
09-29-2005, 09:05 PM
TheLink,
What code do you normally plumb under?
Things change city to city, state to state, code to code.

I prefer to show something that will fly anywhere, and not only for a local inspector.

In the UPC, all fittings below the flood level must be waste fittings.
That means you can't put a santee on it's back, at least not anymore.

If wet venting were allowed in Snohomish County WA, then yes, it could have been wet vented.

The picture above should pass inspection anywhere you put it though.

Kevz
09-30-2005, 04:16 PM
One thing I am confused about is having the trap below the floor. I will be talking with the plumber who did this install next week and would like to discuss the vent and the trap.

Could you tell me the reason for normally having the trap above the floor? Just want to be able to give a reason when I talk to him about this. The pipe coming up is ~37 inches from the finished floor. To the bottom of the trap from under the floor is about 15 inches down. That length doesn't seem like it would be much more than the trap pictured since my pipe coming up isn't as long.. Least it doesn't look that way to me.

Appreciate the help
Thanks

Terry
09-30-2005, 08:15 PM
http://www.terrylove.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=414
Ilegal trap under the floor for a washer.
Not vent is seen here, and the standpipe is too long.

The longer the standpipe, the more chance of siphoning dry the trap.

Without any venting, you can assume the trap will siphon itself dry.

hj
10-01-2005, 06:55 AM
A long pipe will not "siphon" a trap, but the velocity of the water flowing down it can be enough to cause the water to "keep going" and not stay in the trap when the flow stops. Your riser is too long for a proper drain.


The longer the standpipe, the more chance of siphoning dry the trap.
Terry
Isn't that what you're saying too? There is a reason they limit the length of the standpipe.
To prevent siphoning of the trap.

Kevz
10-02-2005, 10:03 PM
Does the stand pipe length start above the trap or the total vertical pipe including the trap? I called and asked what Maytag recommended the standpipe height for the specific washer we are getting, they said minimum of 36" and max of 60".

Want to make sure this gets done right by the next plumber.

Thanks again

hj
10-03-2005, 05:48 AM
The length is measured from the water level in the trap to the top of the standpipe. Most codes limit it between 18" and 30".

Kevz
10-03-2005, 10:59 AM
Is there any reason a front loading washer would want taller stand pipe? I still have the email where I asked what the minimum height was and they said:

"Thank you for visiting our Maytag.com customer service page. We
appreciate your interest in our products and service.

Maytag recommends a standpipe high of 36"

When I called to ask, since the email was taking a while they told me 36-60 for the new front loader..

I don't think I can complain much about that to them, since I asked for the height to be 36".. Although if code says the trap can't be under the floor that's another case.

Terry
10-03-2005, 11:05 AM
They are talking about the top of the standpipe, not the length.

Most traps arms are 12" above the floor.
No inspector in the state of Washington would allow a p-trap under the floor for a washer.
I'm sure it's the same elsewhere.
Of course, you could always pull a permit like the rest of us, and then you would know for sure, finally.

Your contractor "should" have had a plumbing permit for this.

I saw on interesting story on the discovery channel the other day, explaining how the plumbing code came about.

Drinking water and waste water were mixed up in heavy rains and 25% of the population of Chicago died.

After that, they took plumbing serious. They wrote a book explaining how it should be done and made it into law.
Mistakes in plumbing, can kill.

If the third world countries took it seriously, there wouldn't be so much sickness and you could drink the water.

hj
10-03-2005, 11:52 AM
The basic rule is that the standpipe has to be at least as high as the water level in the machine. A front loading machine has a much lower level than a top loading one, but since there is no assurance that someone might not put a toploading machine in its place someday, the safest, and legal, thing would be to make it as high as a top loader would require.

Kevz
10-07-2005, 07:39 PM
Well had some another plumber come out, 2 guys.. They said it should have more venting and he suggested cutting into that stand pipe above the floor and branching out and adding in an autovent to fix that problem. I asked about the trap under the floor and he didnít think that was a problem at all. He looked at everything and said it would be fine.

Should I keep looking for a new plumber until someone sees that as a problem as well?

And the way he suggests adding in the autovent, is that the correct way? For some reason I thought it was added to the long pipe under the floor.

Thanks again

hj
10-07-2005, 07:46 PM
The riser pipe from the floor is "open" to the atmosphere so it doesn't need an "autovent" nor would it have any effect on the installation. ANY vent has to be after the trap which means it would be into the horizontal pipe if the trap is not relocated above the floor.

Kevz
10-07-2005, 08:33 PM
Hah, well I guess we scratch that plumbing company off the list too. I even asked if it should be on the long horizontal drain and he said something about it being above the trap. And even made me a drawing of how he would install it.. All above the floor, just coming off the riser with a autovent.

Guess I will try to ask around if anyone knows another one until one finds the problem and has a correct solution without me saying anything.

Sad.