-Kohler v. Toto

[NC Bear]

We are building a home in the western North Carolina mountains and need 4 toilets. The supply house (Fergusons), contractor and plumber all recommend Kohler, and we have tentatively piced two Memoirs elongated comfort height (for master and power room ) and two elongated comfort height Wellworths for the guest rooms. There is no Toto distributer within an hour, and almost every home and commercial place have Kohler. We have older Wellworths in our home in Florida and condo in NC and all work well (about 10 years old). I see Toto is going to all 1.28 gal. My main concern from reading here and elsewhere is bowl wash on the Class 5. Would changing to Class 6 address our concerns or do we need to "push" everyone to install Toto? We never have clogs in either home.

[Terry]

Neither class five or six has good bowl wash in the Kohler line.
But like you say, the plumber has nothing to compare it to.
Toto is made in Georgia.
Kohler is made in Mexico.
I use to buy Toto in Florida, but then Kohler threatened the suppliers that they wouldn't be able to buy Kohler if they kept Toto.

[Gary Swart]

Many plumbing shops can get a Toto for you even if they don't advertise them. There is no Toto dealer in my area for 150 miles, but I just drive over the hill to Terry's and pick mine up! Except when Terry is coming across the mountain to within 35 miles, then he brings it with him. Can't beat that with a stick. Seriously, it is worth a bit of effort to get the best toilet there is when it is something that you will have and use for many years to come.

[BlueHouse]

Kohler improved? The Memiors and Wellworth both now get 1000 on the MAP test.

[Terry Love]

I installed a new Kohler Memoirs last month.
Maybe you didn't see that post.
I had to shim the bowl on two opposite corners. The bowl alternated between filling to the proper level and filling part way. Therefore the flush varied. I fiddle with it for a while, but couldn't improve it. My youngest son that is going to Wentworth in Boston remarked that it didn't seem to work like the Toto products we've been selling. He was shocked to hear it was more money for less performance and quality. Seeing the products in person is a different reality. All things being equal would be nice, but they aren't. I should have taken video of the flush. If I hadn't seen it, I wouldn't have believed it. There was something wrong with the Kohler class six, and I wasn't able to improve it.
Yes Bluehouse, Kohler has a long ways to go before they can compete in performance.

[SteveW]

Kohler improved? The Memiors and Wellworth both now get 1000 on the MAP test.

I wouldn't think twice about Kohler based on what I've learned on this site.

Somewhere here there is a post that links to a YouTube video that shows the Toto manufacturing process. They use a less fluid clay mix when they mold their toilets, which causes less "slump". Slump is the term they use to describe how wet clay will deform simply because it's heavy and gravity will cause it to drop before it hardens, and that in turn leads to the waste passage becoming narrow. This doesn't happen in Totos because of the stiffer clay. It does happen with some regularity with a lot of other brands, including big-name brands. You can't see "slump" in a finished toilet, unless you break it apart with a sledge hammer. You know you may have it when you have a series of clogs.

[JerryR]

We had 2 Totos shipped from to Florida from Atlanta in two days via UPS Ground. They should be similar shipping times to NC.

The first Toto I ordered was a 1.6 gal Drake Universal height. When I found that the city would pay me $100 for installing a 1.28g toilet, I ordered a second Toto Eco Drake 1.28 gal in Universal height. I CANNOT TELL ANY DIFFERENCE in FLUSHING ability between teh 1.6g and 1.28g toilets. They both are awesome.

My wife, who made fun of me, loves these and wants me to install a pair in our weekend house in Bradenton also. She loves how clean they stay, and also loves the additional height of the Universal height bowl.

I sent you a PM with some details.

Jerry

[Gary Swart]

A word of caution if you are having toilets shipped. When toilets are shipped from the factory, they are very well packed so as to prevent breakage. But, when shipped individually, they do not have the best packing and they can and are broken in transit. You need to open the boxes and inspect the very carefully before taking delivery. Then, if you do find damage, they can be replaced and all you will be out is the time. If you accept delivery without inspecting them, then find damage, you'll eat it.