Ballvalve
General Engineering Contractor
What bladder or diaphragm type well tank brand or model line lasts the longest, or is the most for the least money on the market? Any discounted on-line peddlers?
Which brand of captive air tank is best?
- Thread starter Ballvalve
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Amtrol is a good tank. However, the company went through bankruptcy and is like 130 million is the rears. They refuse to come to the 21st century and realize that big pressure tanks are a thing of the past. Constant pressure systems like the Cycle Stop Valve do a better job with a 4.4 gallon tank, than the old style system with an 86 gallon tank.
Who makes the tank for cycle stop? Is it made by them or jobbed out? Amtrol does make some small tanks also. Have you seen their new tank with the adjustable differential pressure switch on it? and what do you think about them?
Yeah the red 4.4 gallon tank is presently made for us by Amtrol. I said they made a good tank. However, they are promoting their pressure switch that has only 10 PSI between on and off, and claiming it is "constant pressure". Of course with only 10 PSI between on and off instead of 20 PSI, you have to use twice as large a pressure tank, and the pump still cycles on and off, which is not constant pressure. It is just their way of pushing more tank sales in a era of constant pressure devices like the Cycle Stop Valves, where people no longer want or need big pressure tanks. What I think is that they are grasping at straws because it is not constant pressure, they just want you to buy an extra, extra big tank.
I have not installed any of them. Saw them at a recent trade show and read through the literature. According to my distributer they run about 40% more than a standard tank of the same size, but then everyone is trying to sell "green" stuff these days no matter whether it actually works or not.
The 40% more is for the electronic pressure switch so you can set it at 10 PSI differential instead of 20 PSI. But then you need twice the size of tank as usual to just get the cycles per day back to average. So when you figure one of these Amtrol systems, you need to size it with twice the size of tank. Now if you figure the extra cost of the larger tank, the extra square footage needed for the bigger tank, and the extra heat you need in the house for the extra square footage, it is not a green thing to do.
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very few things that are touted as being green really are when you run the numbers and even more are only really green if your lifespan and the lifespan of the product is in excess of a hundred years or so, but companies count on folks not bothering to run the numbers. A prime example would be folks that really think a Prius is saving the environment.
People can be so gullible. Just tell them it is green or saves energy and they will gladly pay an extra 10,000 bucks. They don't realize that the extra money is for the ENERGY it takes to mine, manufacture, transport, and install all those batteries. It adds even more expense to try and recycle those old batteries, so our landfills will be full of Lithium. How "Green" is that? Even charging a plug in electric vehicle puts out more greenhouse gasses than a regular gas engine.
Further proof of our gullibility is that they can convince us that global warming is real, even in one of the coldest years on record. Oh yeah but, "colder winters are one of the symptoms of global warming". WHAT??? All so they can push "Cap and Trade" through, giving government more power and more of your money that they don't deserve. These natural cycles were caused by the tilting of the earth on it's axis, volcanos, and other things long before humans even existed.
The government is also going to spend us back into prosperity. So we can borrow enough money to get us out of dept?? Our founding fathers are spinning in their graves!
Further proof of our gullibility is that they can convince us that global warming is real, even in one of the coldest years on record. Oh yeah but, "colder winters are one of the symptoms of global warming". WHAT??? All so they can push "Cap and Trade" through, giving government more power and more of your money that they don't deserve. These natural cycles were caused by the tilting of the earth on it's axis, volcanos, and other things long before humans even existed.
The government is also going to spend us back into prosperity. So we can borrow enough money to get us out of dept?? Our founding fathers are spinning in their graves!
Ballvalve
General Engineering Contractor
We are getting a bit off base, but what the hell.... The key to any green is common sense - take garbage trucks for instance. They move 50 to 100 feet and then stop. Some comapnies are using capacitors and batteries to use that "stop" via regenerative braking - they have doubled their mileage and more. That can certainly payback in cash and "green" points. A new Excavator uses the swing motor on the cab and boom to reharge a capacitor on the empty swing toward the dump cycle. Any time you can capture wasted kinetic energy and " recycle" it, you are ahead. Prius only makes sense in a BIG city via its regnerative braking. And only if the batteries can be recycled at some reasonable charge.
Charging an electric vehicle is however well proven to put less crap in the air than any ones gas engine - especially when its source is nuclear or gas turbines in a modern plant. A billion dollar gas turbine makes a gasoline engine look like cooking on twigs or dung in India as a comparison.
Only 2 soultions: Birth control and Nuclear power. Well the third would be a really serious swine flu or bubonic plague, but that is not politically correct.
As for water, California gets a big percentage of its over mountain pump costs back by turbines on the downhill run. [GREEN circa 1928]
Charging an electric vehicle is however well proven to put less crap in the air than any ones gas engine - especially when its source is nuclear or gas turbines in a modern plant. A billion dollar gas turbine makes a gasoline engine look like cooking on twigs or dung in India as a comparison.
Only 2 soultions: Birth control and Nuclear power. Well the third would be a really serious swine flu or bubonic plague, but that is not politically correct.
As for water, California gets a big percentage of its over mountain pump costs back by turbines on the downhill run. [GREEN circa 1928]
Ballvalve
General Engineering Contractor
Any other tanks besides Amtrol?
Flexcon is #2, and AO Smith is about third.
Ballvalve
General Engineering Contractor
Whats the story on a "hydro pro v-250" by Goulds? Its an 85 gallon Diaphragm tank with a 5 year warranty. Everyone sells them here for $385 to $450 bucks. Is that a Flex-con?
Goulds should be AO Smith.
Ballvalve
General Engineering Contractor
At $385 is that a decent tank? Seem to be many around and the one distributor claims to have sold thousands without any warranty calls.... The innards look like the amtrol design.
Ballvalve
General Engineering Contractor
Okay, so Ao smith and Goulds are the same - the guts look exactly like the Amtrol. Amtrol tanks are about $125 more. Same for Flex-con. They all seem to be US made, with the same warranty. And now I find the Goulds at $345.
Any one out there dare to comment on quality of the three companies and longevity of the Goulds? And I mean longevity where someone actually checks the pressure twice a year, not at every pump change like the average homeowner.
Any one out there dare to comment on quality of the three companies and longevity of the Goulds? And I mean longevity where someone actually checks the pressure twice a year, not at every pump change like the average homeowner.
I still have some Amtrol tanks that have been in service since the late 70's and early 80's. One I installed in 82 only has 5 PSI less air than the day I installed it. The AO Smith and Flexcon tanks haven't even been around for that long. Longevity has a lot to do with how many times per day the pump cycles. Bladders will burst from bending back and forth like bending a wire until it breaks. The more times you bend it, the quicker it will break. A Cycle Stop Valve reduces the cycling by about 75%, which can make even a cheap tank last much longer. Bend the bladder 25 times per day instead of 100 times per day, and any bladder will last 4 times longer. Let the pump cycle a lot, then you better get the best quality tank you can find.
Texas Wellman
In the Trades
A lot of those tanks here will rust out at the base before the bladder gives out, although a lot of them now come with a composite base. Not to mention they can amplify odors in the water.
Ballvalve
General Engineering Contractor
One amtrol guy states that the mfg. quality has suffered in the past few years and he's getting many more callbacks [?] Says Flex-con is better, but Goulds for value is ok too. Any thoughts?
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