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Frugal-Mike
02-15-2010, 06:49 PM
I have a Kinetico 60 water softener that was purchased by the previous home owner in September 1985. My home is on well water and I've owned the home since 1996. The system worked fairly well until the well pump impeller disintegrated in 2005 causing little plastic bits to show up occasionally in the Kinetico valve system. (There is no pre-filter) The initial symptom was the brine tank overflowing. Since then, we just occasionally get bad tasting water when the system regenerates. The local service folks fixed this the first two times. Since then, I've taken it apart a couple of times to clean it out myself.

Lately, it just seems that every time it regenerates the water tastes bad for a while and we get iron deposits on the fixtures.

So, this is a 25 year old system with almost all original parts and with the original resin. Also, the house is 5 bedrooms and 3 baths. The previous owner had two adults and three teenage children and the system was sized for his family. Now that my son is off at college, it's just the wife and me so the system is probably not set optimally.

I see three options:

Try Super Iron Out on regens for both tanks (this has not been done in at least the last 13 years), clean out the control valve, install a pre-filter, and empty out and flush the resin tanks to get any impeller pieces that might be in there. If the resin looks bad (pieces not round?), go to #2.
Do the above and replace the resin in both tanks. According to specs, each tank holds 3/4 cu.ft.
Buy a new water softener.

OK, here are the key data:

Hardness: 76 ppm (4.44 gpg?)
Iron: 2.15 ppm
Manganese 0.41 ppm

According to Gary's web site, this gives a compensated hardness of: 4.44 + (2.15 * 4) + (0.41 * 2) = 13.86

The Kinetico currently has a #3 disk (old style orange type) which, according to this page (http://www.erwater.com/ENGLISH/WT/pdf/ks_e.pdf), will regenerate every 1514 liters or 400 gallons. The brine drum adjuster tube is set to 'H' and the float cup height is "1". I believe these correspond to a salt load of 4 lbs per regen.

So, here are my questions:
Is there any reasonable chance the resin is still good after 25 years?
Is it possible to buy 1 1/2 cu. ft. of resin rather than 2 cu. ft? This affects the cost of option #2.
Is this system currently set up badly for 2 adults who are not wasteful with water?
Do you consider this system worth rebuilding?

Please keep in mind that I am frugal. I hesitate to spend money but try to get the best long term value when I do decide to spend it. If I buy a new water softener, I want it to last as long as this one.

Thanks in advance.

Mike

Akpsdvan
02-15-2010, 07:24 PM
With the Mn I round up... and come up with 21 comp hardness..

What size are the media tanks?

You could rebuild the unit, not sure if the Kinetico 60 one that you have still has the same parts as the newer one today.. some one might have a used valve laying around..
You might be able to get the resin that you have back,,,, large dose of iron out and then a couple of large doses of salt... all of that taking time,, days to get done..

if the tanks are like 10x47 in size then you might be able to take one of the tanks, put a new dist, or turbo in to it, new resin 1 to 1.5 cubic depending on what dist gets used and a new fleck or clack valve some replumbing regut the brine tank and call it good..

A single unit would work for the 2 of you, if it has the computer control it could be set for gallons with a day defualt say 12 days..

Just some ideas that came to mind.

Gary Slusser
02-15-2010, 09:25 PM
Yes you could buy 2 .75 cuft bags of resin for under $200 delivered and I would if you get it working and think it will continue to work.

Peter Griffin
02-16-2010, 05:26 AM
PM me. I can give you the name of a guy that is a Kinetico Service guy and he can probably give you some good advice.

Frugal-Mike
02-16-2010, 04:46 PM
With the Mn I round up... and come up with 21 comp hardness..

I must have something wrong. If I round 0.41 up to 1.0, I get: 4.44 + (2.15 * 4) + (1 * 2) = 15.04


What size are the media tanks?
Both tanks are 8x40.



You could rebuild the unit, not sure if the Kinetico 60 one that you have still has the same parts as the newer one today.. some one might have a used valve laying around..
I saw one guy posted here saying he found a couple of "retired" Kinetico 60s cheap locally and used them to piece together a good one. I used "Search Tempest" to check Craigslist for 250 miles around here and found nothing. Nothing on "that auction site" right now either. If I get this thing working well, I guess I'll have to keep looking just in case.



You might be able to get the resin that you have back,,,, large dose of iron out and then a couple of large doses of salt... all of that taking time,, days to get done..

I bought some SIO today and will give it a try. Unless I misunderstand, it should only take a few hours since I can manually force regens. Pour in SIO (mixed with water), regen tank one, Pour in SIO, regen tank two, regen tank one to flush, regen tank two to flush. Regens take 45 minutes each: 3 hours total.



if the tanks are like 10x47 in size then you might be able to take one of the tanks, put a new dist, or turbo in to it, new resin 1 to 1.5 cubic depending on what dist gets used and a new fleck or clack valve some replumbing regut the brine tank and call it good..

A single unit would work for the 2 of you, if it has the computer control it could be set for gallons with a day defualt say 12 days..

Just some ideas that came to mind.
I thought about reusing pieces to build a new one, but if I want to reuse the tanks, I expect I'll need a valve that will use them both to get adequate capacity. This would increase the price of the valve. I understand I'll also have to replace the brine float system since Kinetico's are different. I'm not sure I'll save anything over buying a complete new system.

Thanks,

Mike

Frugal-Mike
02-16-2010, 04:49 PM
Yes you could buy 2 .75 cuft bags of resin for under $200 delivered and I would if you get it working and think it will continue to work.

That's good to know. All I saw online were 1 cu. ft. bags.

How difficult would you expect it to be to unscrew the tops off these 25 year old tanks. Will I new new gaskets/seals to put them back together?

Akpsdvan
02-16-2010, 08:57 PM
I must have something wrong. If I round 0.41 up to 1.0, I get: 4.44 + (2.15 * 4) + (1 * 2) = 15.04

Both tanks are 8x40.

I saw one guy posted here saying he found a couple of "retired" Kinetico 60s cheap locally and used them to piece together a good one. I used "Search Tempest" to check Craigslist for 250 miles around here and found nothing. Nothing on "that auction site" right now either. If I get this thing working well, I guess I'll have to keep looking just in case.


I bought some SIO today and will give it a try. Unless I misunderstand, it should only take a few hours since I can manually force regens. Pour in SIO (mixed with water), regen tank one, Pour in SIO, regen tank two, regen tank one to flush, regen tank two to flush. Regens take 45 minutes each: 3 hours total.


I thought about reusing pieces to build a new one, but if I want to reuse the tanks, I expect I'll need a valve that will use them both to get adequate capacity. This would increase the price of the valve. I understand I'll also have to replace the brine float system since Kinetico's are different. I'm not sure I'll save anything over buying a complete new system.

Thanks,

Mike

I my self treat Mn a little different than others.... it is a pain... so I add a little to the number as it starts staining at .05 ppm and iron will start at .3 ppm... I also multiply each by 4, now while most do not do this I have been doing it this way for 20 years and had no problems doing it this way.

With both tanks at 8x40 normal loading would be just over .6 cubic per tank, with the turbolator it might be able to push .9 per tank.. and slowing the backwash to 1.5 gpm..

If going to another system while using the tanks, one could change out the current brine float assembly with a 2310 assembly from fleck.. could be around 45.00

On the iron out type stuff... mix with the water poor into the brine tank, send unit into cleaning cycle.. after it is done wait 2-3 hours for the next brine to get to 26% then add some more of the iron out like stuff... and send into another cleaning cycle.. this might have to be done a few times to get the resin back..

One thing that you would save would be the land fill by re using as much of the current system as possible..

Akpsdvan
02-16-2010, 09:02 PM
That's good to know. All I saw online were 1 cu. ft. bags.

How difficult would you expect it to be to unscrew the tops off these 25 year old tanks. Will I new new gaskets/seals to put them back together?

Should not be to much of a challenge in getting the current tank heads off, even if they have been on for a number of years.. The "O" ring that is between the head and the tank for the most part does not go bad unless the the head has been removed a large number of times and over tightend , some times a little silicone lubricant does wonders in giving it new life..

Gary Slusser
02-17-2010, 09:07 AM
I must have something wrong. If I round 0.41 up to 1.0, I get: 4.44 + (2.15 * 4) + (1 * 2) = 15.04
The difference between 21 and 16 is not enough to worry about.


Both tanks are 8x40.
Standard 3/4 cuft is 8" x 44", so your tanks are on the small side already.


I bought some SIO today and will give it a try. Unless I misunderstand, it should only take a few hours since I can manually force regens. Pour in SIO (mixed with water), regen tank one, Pour in SIO, regen tank two, regen tank one to flush, regen tank two to flush. Regens take 45 minutes each: 3 hours total.
IIRC (if I recall correctly Bob), you said your salt dose is 4 lbs. so you need to add water at 3 lbs/gallon to get 12 lbs to fully regenerate 3/4 cuft of resin. So you add that volume to the salt tank along with your SIO water and then wait 2 hrs for the salt to dissolve, then start the regeneration. When done, do it again for the second tank. That will take something like 7-8 hrs. and you shouldn't use much water during that time, if any.

Frugal-Mike
02-17-2010, 05:56 PM
I my self treat Mn a little different than others.... it is a pain... so I add a little to the number as it starts staining at .05 ppm and iron will start at .3 ppm... I also multiply each by 4, now while most do not do this I have been doing it this way for 20 years and had no problems doing it this way.
That sounds reasonable to me.



With both tanks at 8x40 normal loading would be just over .6 cubic per tank, with the turbolator it might be able to push .9 per tank.. and slowing the backwash to 1.5 gpm..
Thanks, I'll read up on the turbolator.



If going to another system while using the tanks, one could change out the current brine float assembly with a 2310 assembly from fleck.. could be around 45.00
Sounds like it would be less expensive than replacing the entire brine tank.



On the iron out type stuff... mix with the water poor into the brine tank, send unit into cleaning cycle.. after it is done wait 2-3 hours for the next brine to get to 26% then add some more of the iron out like stuff... and send into another cleaning cycle.. this might have to be done a few times to get the resin back..
Thanks for the clarification. I hadn't really thought about the time to dissolve the salt.



One thing that you would save would be the land fill by re using as much of the current system as possible..
That's a very good point!

Thanks,

Mike

Akpsdvan
02-17-2010, 06:23 PM
No Problemo.... if there are other questions ask.

This is an idea and question site..

There are some of my customers that wish to have totaly new equipment and then others that want working equipment and if that means not 1st place in looks, but 1st place in working... and reuses tanks and valves that can still be repaired to working...both win in this.

Frugal-Mike
02-19-2010, 09:30 AM
I've come to the conclusion that my Kinetico 60 can probably be made to work without major modifications. I probably have crud in the valve and I'll need to disassemble it to clean it out. I've done this before so I'm not worried about the process.

Before I do this, I need to install a pre-filter. Aside from the fact that Kinetico recommends them, it just makes sense to have a simple screen to catch stuff like shreds of pump impellers. From a "frugal" standpoint, I like the idea of something like a Rusko spin-down filter with a 100 mesh (152 micron) stainless screen. In theory, it should last forever without the need to buy filter cartridges. If this is misguided, please let me know.

While I have things torn apart, I'll add a water meter (with pulse output so I can track water usage on my computer) and a couple of shutoff valves so I don't have to drain the upstairs water lines to work on stuff.

Once I have all this done, I'll flush the media tanks with iron out. It didn't make sense do do that until I cleaned out the valve to make sure it regens correctly.

I'll admit that I also have a question out on another forum with a known Kinetico "expert" on whether it makes sense to swap some parts to set the softener to more accurately match our water test numbers. The current settings aree for a compensated hardness of 28.

You guys (all you water softener experts on the web) have me pretty confused. Everybody seems to have a different equation for compensated hardness and you all have decades of experience showing your equation works:

Kinetico's equation in this documen (http://www.awqinc.com/pdf/kinetico_specs.pdf)t is hardness + 3 * iron giving 10.85.
Gary uses hardness + 4 * iron + 2 * manganese giving 13.82.
Akpsdvan uses hardness + 4 * iron + 4 * manganese with all numbers rounded up before multiplications for a total of 21.

A quick google search pretty much shows a different equation on each web site. (Right about now, I start searching the forum for the ability to add animated icons showing repeated running my head into a wall) I know that it's not that big a deal. I know I can leave it as is and just use a bit more salt (maybe 173% more depending on the numbers) than needed and have a little more sodium in the drinking water and be confident the system is taking all the other bad stuff out, but the retired engineer in me has a bit of a problem with that. :rolleyes:

OK, enough of this rant. What do you guys think about Rusco spin-down filters?

Peter Griffin
02-19-2010, 09:35 AM
The Rusco unit will serve well.

The differences in calculations are all close enough that it's not going to make a huge difference most of the time. However, since you have Kinetico equipment, I would use thier figures.

Akpsdvan
02-19-2010, 10:42 AM
Ruscos are good units, it is good to have a spare center for trade outs , a number of people here have 2 or 3 to trade out and clean, be it 6 months, 12 months or longer..

As for the comp hardness.. we are using equation that have done well for us in the past. And some times the numbers are higher than what the people at Kinetico, Culligan, Eco, Hague, and the list goes on..
More times than not we have changed not so much the equation but some of the numbers in it to better deal with the Fe, Mn, Hd that we deal with, also the water useage comes into play, high useage, low useage all have to be taken into account as to setting the system that is in use.

This water treatment is not a cookie cutter deal... each well , family is different and all need to be taken into account.

Frugal-Mike
02-19-2010, 11:45 AM
Thanks for the feedback. I'll order the Rusco and include an extra filter screen.

I have another question, this time about the pre-filter placement. Here's a picture of the current layout:

http://www.terrylove.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10029

I assume the normal position would be on the incoming line on the left before the tee that goes to the pressure tank and the softener. My wife is worried that there might be impeller shavings in the pressure tank and thinks it makes more sense to put it between the tee and the softener bypass but that means desoldering some tight connections and moving the softener to the right.

Have you guys heard of well pressure tanks collecting debris?

If I don't have to worry about the pressure tank, I'll bump out on the left even with the filter on the other side and put in the Rusco with valves on each side to make it easy to clean the screen. I'll put the water meter on the vertical spot above the filter on the right with a shutoff valve above it. The valve is necessary because I now need to drain the upstairs pipes to change the filter so the filter doesn't get changed very often.

I'll put off changes to Kinetico settings until I have the water meter in so I know how much water we're using and how often it regens. This will be connected to a system that will generate graphs of water usage on a per gallon basis.

Thanks,

Mike

Akpsdvan
02-19-2010, 12:05 PM
On the pressure tank, most that I know turn off the well and drain down the pressure tank every few years to blow out any thing that might settle out in the pressure tank and check the air pressure in the tank at the same time.
If you could re-work the lay out of the system it would help with pressure.
2 words for that ... Sharkbite, Aqua Pex...
Try to remove as many elbows as possible, replace an elbow with a sweeping turn when possible.
Lay out for me would be well , pressure tank, spin down , brown filter(whole house) full flow ball valves before and after each of the filters, 3 could be used.. one on the out side of the 2 with one in the middle... makes things nice when changing or working on one of the filters.
Re-work the 3 gate valve bypass for the kinetico to a three ball valve bypass..

All the while working to remove elbows with sweeping turns when possible, and only using elbows when NEEDED....

This is what I would try to do... for the brown filter you might put a 1X6 on the wall so that you could put a bracket on the filter head and wall for support of the total housing.

Frugal-Mike
02-19-2010, 01:33 PM
On the pressure tank, most that I know turn off the well and drain down the pressure tank every few years to blow out any thing that might settle out in the pressure tank and check the air pressure in the tank at the same time.
Good Idea! We've never done that.



If you could re-work the lay out of the system it would help with pressure.
2 words for that ... Sharkbite, Aqua Pex...
I'd noticed Sharkbite in the stores, but didn't give it much thought. That and Pex would make a re-layout fairly simple.



Try to remove as many elbows as possible, replace an elbow with a sweeping turn when possible.
Lay out for me would be well , pressure tank, spin down , brown filter(whole house)
Does the Kinetico fit between the spin down and the brown filter? I assume the meter still goes after the brown filter.



full flow ball valves before and after each of the filters, 3 could be used.. one on the out side of the 2 with one in the middle... makes things nice when changing or working on one of the filters.
Re-work the 3 gate valve bypass for the kinetico to a three ball valve bypass..
Sounds like the ball valves have less resistance in addition to ease of use.



All the while working to remove elbows with sweeping turns when possible, and only using elbows when NEEDED....

This is what I would try to do... for the brown filter you might put a 1X6 on the wall so that you could put a bracket on the filter head and wall for support of the total housing.With Pex, it definitely will need support for the spin down, brown filter, and meter.

Thank you very much. I'm really glad I added that picture. :D

Mike

Akpsdvan
02-19-2010, 01:58 PM
That photo helps ....

I only use the filters like the brown one after a softener for carbon block if needed..

That brown filter could stay or be left out if the spin down does the job, you might leave the brown one in line, just no filter in the sump,(part that hangs down) and it is there if needed later in time.

The ball valves are better when it comes time to stop the water,,, a move from with the line to 90 or across the line stops the flow of water, and if there is some thing like sand in the water the ball 99 out of 100 could care less about that, the gate will have challenges fulling closing after some time because of the build up in the spot where the gate goes into when closed.


The meter could go in any where in the water flow... would not make a defference where...

I use 60 gallons per day per person... there are some that use more, and some that use less..

I know that if the toilet is only flushed when needed not just after a use... that will save water and cut down on the 60 gpdpp....

There are 90 bends for the pex that have a spot for a screw to hold it to a wall or some thing..

Frugal-Mike
03-01-2010, 06:23 PM
I fear this project is going at a glacial pace. I still haven't taken the Kinetico 60 apart yet but I've spent some time thinking about how I would layout things differently. Though sharkbites and pex might be easier, I've decided that, since everything else in the house is copper, I would continue to use copper. It fits with the rest of this 36 year old house. I've tried to limit elbows, but there's no way around using some of them. Is it worthwhile to go with long radius elbows to improve flow?

I also noticed that Pentek has filter housings that have optional differential pressure gauges to tell you when a filter needs changing. I thought about putting individual pressure gauges at each end and between the filters and the softener to help me know when a filter needs to be cleaned/changed. Does this make any sense or is it a waste of money?

Since I'm I software guy, I've created a diagram of what I have in mind. Let me know what you think?

Akpsdvan
03-01-2010, 06:39 PM
I like the lay out, but yes I would change a few things.. old filter after the rusco and before the softener.
Ball valves while more than gates will give fewer problems down the road and close better than gates.
Long reach elbows will be less of a pressure drop than the short elbows.
The white line that goes up, where does it come back in with the new stuff that you are doing?
Water will go the easiest way.. if it has a choice in going straight or going down the path of your treatment sysetm it will go straight.
PSI gauges are good, but unless they are the oil filled will last a few years.

On the meter, if the pipes to and from are 3/4 then the meter should be 5/8"

If you are going to use copper and there is nothing wrong with using it, learn how to clean, flux and soder the fittings together... NO water and Clean fittings...

Akpsdvan
03-01-2010, 07:11 PM
The sites reset and time change makes PM right now near impossible..

Frugal-Mike
03-01-2010, 07:19 PM
I like the lay out, but yes I would change a few things.. old filter after the rusco and before the softener.The old filter currently has a activated charcoal filter in it, but I don't think it adds any value. I was thinking about leaving it empty like you described in a previous post. I would have thought that it would be better to have the softener remove the iron before it gets to that filter.



Ball valves while more than gates will give fewer problems down the road and close better than gates. Yep. I had thought to save a few bucks but had changed my mind and just hadn't switched them back to ball valves in the diagram.



Long reach elbows will be less of a pressure drop than the short elbows.
I haven't seen them at big box stores or the local hardware store though I can get them online.



The white line that goes up, where does it come back in with the new stuff that you are doing?
Water will go the easiest way.. if it has a choice in going straight or going down the path of your treatment sysetm it will go straight.
Sorry, I should have labeled that. The top is the line coming in from the pump. The bottom of that line is the pressure tank.



PSI gauges are good, but unless they are the oil filled will last a few years.
That bumps up the price a bit. I may just skip them since the Rusco has a clear housing to see when it needs to be cleaned and the old filter will probably be empty.



On the meter, if the pipes to and from are 3/4 then the meter should be 5/8"
Oops. I purchased a new 3/4 x 3/4 version of one of these (http://www.controlswhse.com/sheets/amco/amco_c700_poly_58-34in_spec.pdf) with pulse output on Epay for $30 including shipping a while back. Should I expect to lose accuracy because of the larger size? Oh well, I suspect it will be better than nothing, which is what we've always had.



If you are going to use copper and there is nothing wrong with using it, learn how to clean, flux and soder the fittings together... NO water and Clean fittings... I installed a new shower valve last year using sweat fittings so I've had a little practice. I'll have a lot more practice by the time this is done.

Akpsdvan
03-01-2010, 07:36 PM
If you need to have a carbon block for some smell, then the larger housing and head would be better, better flow through the filter less psi drop and yes the carbon should be after the softener so all that the carbon has to deal with is smell..

Save now, pay later... you will thank yourself if you spend the few extra dollars now as there will not be the replacement of the gates later and when you close the ball valve it is Closed, no need of trying 2 or 3 times to get the gate closed..
as a extra if the need should come up that you need to turn the water off where ever, that ball valve is closed with in 1 second,,,, not the turn turn turn turn and turn some more to stop the water flow..


The long turn elbows are found at the Plumping shops or at some places on line, most DIY do not use them, not to say that you can't , they do take up a little more space, but do lower the psi drop..

It would be good to have one or two in that stream some place to help track what is going on, but the shower is a very good spot to learn the psi from a plugging filter as it goes from hitting the face to hitting the chest... time to change some thing. How old is the one on the pressure tank and how good is it?

So you are going to have a really big brass TEE? in front of the pressure tank? ceiling to floor and about 4' off the floor go to the treatment system? and a plug on the other side of the pressure tank TEE? that will work..

3/4 meter should work, for what you are looking at doing , should do it,,, normally when I am putting a meter in for turning on a chem pump I size down just a little on the meter.. making sure that the meter sees the water... one of the things that I learned from a man that does meters, pumps , chem feed for 35 years.. and that is all that he does.

Good to hear that you have already had a run at the cleaning and fluxing the copper,,, that will come in handy and what a challenge it is if there is water in the line that you are working on ...

Frugal-Mike
03-02-2010, 09:43 AM
If you need to have a carbon block for some smell, then the larger housing and head would be better, better flow through the filter less psi drop and yes the carbon should be after the softener so all that the carbon has to deal with is smell..
I think I'll leave it where it is then.



Save now, pay later... you will thank yourself if you spend the few extra dollars now as there will not be the replacement of the gates later and when you close the ball valve it is Closed, no need of trying 2 or 3 times to get the gate closed..
as a extra if the need should come up that you need to turn the water off where ever, that ball valve is closed with in 1 second,,,, not the turn turn turn turn and turn some more to stop the water flow..
There are ball valves at both ends so turning off the water quickly is not an issue. The gate valves for the bypass have worked OK for many years, but I'll look them over carefully when I have everything apart and won't hesitate to replace them with ball valves if they don't look good on the inside.



The long turn elbows are found at the Plumping shops or at some places on line, most DIY do not use them, not to say that you can't , they do take up a little more space, but do lower the psi drop..
According to this site (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/resistance-equivalent-length-d_192.html), long radius 3/4 elbows are equivalent to 2.3 ft of straight pipe and regular radius are 4.4. For the 5 elbows in the main flow, the total difference adds up to equal to 10.5 ft of pipe. For this house, that's probably not significant.

The business with the gate valves and elbows is less about cost and more about wanting to reuse existing parts if they're in good shape. There's a good chance that I'll find that these parts are not usable or are too much work to desolder and clean up for reuse. If so, I'll go with new ball valves and long radius elbows.



It would be good to have one or two in that stream some place to help track what is going on, but the shower is a very good spot to learn the psi from a plugging filter as it goes from hitting the face to hitting the chest... time to change some thing. How old is the one on the pressure tank and how good is it?
The existing pressure tank gauge is probably 15 years old and seems to still work fine. It's not fluid filled and is marked "made in Taiwan". I've seen regular 60 psi gauges on Epay for 4.50 and fluid filled versions of the same gauges at the same seller for 12.50. Since they'll be easy to replace, I may just go with regular and buy a couple of extras or I may buy the fluid filled.



So you are going to have a really big brass TEE? in front of the pressure tank? ceiling to floor and about 4' off the floor go to the treatment system? and a plug on the other side of the pressure tank TEE? that will work..
I'm not sure what the problem is. Water can't flow through the pressure tank. The tank has to be on a branch of the main line coming in so I think it has to be on a tee. I suspect that typically, the main line goes straight through the tee with the pressure tank on the branch. I could change it to do that but I would then need to add an elbow below the tee to turn the flow to the horizontal area required for the filters and softener. According to the numbers on the site linked to above, that would be slightly worse than having the main flow come out the branch of the tee like it does now.

If the problem is that the pressure tank is fighting the weight of the water in the lines above it, I really don't have the option to move all of this out of the basement to a higher level.



3/4 meter should work, for what you are looking at doing , should do it,,, normally when I am putting a meter in for turning on a chem pump I size down just a little on the meter.. making sure that the meter sees the water... one of the things that I learned from a man that does meters, pumps , chem feed for 35 years.. and that is all that he does.
According to the specs for the meter, the accuracy of the 3/4x3/4 version starts to drop below 1/2 gpm. For the 5/8x3/4 version, it starts to drop below 1/4 gpm so the smaller meter is more accurate on lower flows. I'm not sure how often we use flows that low though.



Good to hear that you have already had a run at the cleaning and fluxing the copper,,, that will come in handy and what a challenge it is if there is water in the line that you are working on ...What the diagram doesn't show is that the ball valves on each end have compression fittings rather than sweat so that the entire assembly can be installed and removed with wrenches. Other than desoldering a tee on the input line and soldering a coupler on the output line, everything can be done on a workbench. I will be careful to make sure the lines are empty and as dry as possible when using the torch.

Akpsdvan
03-02-2010, 04:29 PM
My my,, the list today..

The main reason that I talk about replacing them, when there is sand or lots of iron in the water those two items have habit of laying down in the slot that the gate goes into to stop the water, thus making one close, open, close, open, close til the water finally stops.

Re-using parts when one can is a good idea, but keep in mind that if part of a pipe or fitting gets way to hot, it might not hold right when you get it back together. The long elbows are more for larger places when every psi counts, not that it does not count in a house like yours it does, but not to the same level as a Bed and Breakfast or lodge...

If there is only the single line acting as supply and return off the pressure tank there is nothing wrong with that, seen that a lot... I just call that the really big Tee....

Pressure gauges around here have a short life, but the water is the killer, if yours is that old and still working great,,, then stay with what is working.

Low flow... if there is an ice maker or cold water dispenser on the Referig... or an RO under the sink, then no biggie.. the meter will do what you are looking for it to do.. often times today I am working with people that have some things that only use about .25-.50gpm so I have to take that into account when doing the equipment..

I was putting things on the table to be thought of, It is the way I like to work, making sure that different ideas are out there. Some ideas go some place, others go no where and others change into other ideas..

The Universe is my box.... not just the planet..