PDA

View Full Version : say a little prayer tonight



master plumber mark
01-14-2010, 02:31 PM
the horror of what is going on down in Haiti
is beyond comprehention...to me....

be grateful for what you have ...
be grateful for both the good and the bad

anything is better than what is happenning
down there to those poor souls...who had
nothing to begin with.....

donate what you can and pray for the children....

Ian Gills
01-14-2010, 03:57 PM
This is on America's doorstep, so I'm waiting to see what happens.

It is a VERY poor country and in your sphere of influence.

What Americans do next will be very telling, both of their values and the new Administration.

So far, it looks like you're doing better than with Katrina. And this very day I have seen individual American-Latinos put hundreds of dollars (yes, each) into charity boxes.

I have a colleague that works in Port-au-Prince. He was in DC the day the quake happened. No news of his house there though or his friends that were staying in it while he was away.

Dunbar Plumbing
01-14-2010, 04:35 PM
This is on America's doorstep, so I'm waiting to see what happens.

It is a VERY poor country and in your sphere of influence.

What Americans do next will be very telling, both of their values and the new Administration.

So far, it looks like you're doing better than with Katrina. And this very day I have seen individual American-Latinos put hundreds of dollars (yes, each) into charity boxes.

I have a colleague that works in Port-au-Prince. He was in DC the day the quake happened. No news of his house there though or his friends that were staying in it while he was away.


Not America's problem to fix everyone elses.

Our country is flat broke, completely broke.


Take notice of this next statement...


DO NOT GIVE MONEY TO THIS TRAGEDY.

Money won't fix this tragedy. Please donate your time, household goods, toiletries, cleaning supplies, work at a church in helping to prepare shipments.

Buy food, soap, canned goods.


Giving money is the worst thing possible, and the tsunami from a few years ago just revealed a couple months ago that A HALF A BILLION DOLLARS was spent, gone, invisible. Greed is what took that money away from people because everyone thinks money fixes these problems.

Every tragedy I've heard of spawns the stories months/years later where millions of dollars was funneled into a direction of greed.


Notice how "easy" they've made it to give money? Who is policing this? No one. No dollar for dollar donation exists.

I'm doing my part for this event...built a website for those who need it for locating family members.


Please donate of your time and raw materials, nothing else.

master plumber mark
01-14-2010, 04:44 PM
Ian,
I dont really know the geo-political ramifications
or whose door step this is on.. or who this is going to reflect on
I think it reflects on the whole world....

Haite has been a hell hole for hundreds of years...
and wether you can blame the USA for all the ills of the world is really stretching it here.......

I honestly feel this world would sink back into the dark ages very quickly if
it were not for the USA and England.....

greed and corruption is a way of life down there and always has been...

I sincerely hope Obama does do a better job with Hati than
England has done takeing care of Ireland and their troubles over the centuries....
Ireland..... oh yea ..... I think thats in your hemisphere.........

Either way ....I say a prayer tonight and
think of my kids safe in their homes....

Ian Gills
01-14-2010, 04:48 PM
I did not blame the US Mark.

I just reminded you that these are your neighbors and it is now your civil responsibility to help them on humanitarian grounds.

Which it appears you are doing, as per my original post.

Indeed, America appears to be doing more for Haiti than it did for itself post-Katrina - for which the Republican party should never be allowed to return to power. If a controlling political Party is so incompetant that it cannot prevent its own citizens from needlessly dying after a crisis, then it really should be put to rest. Rest In Peace GOP. Let us never forget.


Money won't fix this tragedy. Please donate your time, household goods, toiletries, cleaning supplies, work at a church in helping to prepare shipments.

Buy food, soap, canned goods.

Well, I think they need medicines and heavy lifting equipment to get them out of the rubble before we worry about what they are gonna eat. And you may have noticed that the airport is just a single runway and the cranes at the port no longer work. Which means getting food, soap and canned goods in at the moment could be a little tricky.

As always, cash will win so the people on the ground can decide what they need. And I will be writing a check.

Dunbar Plumbing
01-14-2010, 05:02 PM
As always, cash will win.



Of course. That's how a half a billion dollars ended up in the hands of others, instead of the tsunami victims who needed it.


Giving money is about as good as giving money to the drug cartel, so they keep at least one street drug free, and that won't happen.


I could dig deep and find that every tragic event there is money gained into the wrong hands....with people on tv crying, in pain, dying...months and sometimes years later.....and where did your money go?

You can't trace it, you can't prove where it went, you trusted 'something' that sounded realistic and those who have it, don't police themselves.

Let the government handle the medical equipment front. In two days the stench of the dead is going to be horrific and it is going to be first priority to those of the injured and living that are going to need clean water and toiletries...something you're not prioritizing.


I think you should give up your toilet, both of them as a sacrifice, Ian. :p


Money does not fix tragedy. Participation on the volunteer front goes the distance. People need to go there and help. The airports offer free travel to those who are going to help those in disaster zones. Did you know that?

That means no costs involved.

Ian Gills
01-14-2010, 05:05 PM
I think you should give up your toilet, both of them as a sacrifice, Ian.

If it were a Toto, yes. I doubt it would make the journey though - poor build quality you see.

But not even I could depart from my beloved Cadet 3.

Runs with bison
01-14-2010, 09:32 PM
Indeed, America appears to be doing more for Haiti than it did for itself post-Katrina - for which the Republican party should never be allowed to return to power. If a controlling political Party is so incompetant that it cannot prevent its own citizens from needlessly dying after a crisis, then it really should be put to rest. Rest In Peace GOP. Let us never forget.

Amen to that. And it wasn't just N.O. or even LA. There were massive failures in AL and MS. It was the persistent flooding and concentration of numbers that made N.O. the easy focal point because it was in the extremis.

The GOP forgot what the "can do" American spirit was about. Instead they believe Americans and their govt. can't do anything right. When they got elected they set about to prove it--a self fulfilling prophecy. The lesson is never elect anyone to a job that they believe can never be properly managed. Instead elect folks who believe the job can be done.

I could go on for awhile talking of experiencing conservative incompetence during hurricane evacuations, and their inability to accept any responsibility or help that was offered for seeing to the basic needs of the affected, but I won't. I'm not sure when the "can do" conservatives were replaced by all these "can't do" types, but we are worse off for it.

Cass
01-15-2010, 05:02 AM
I just reminded you that these are your neighbors and it is now your civil responsibility to help them on humanitarian grounds.

Which it appears you are doing, as per my original post.

Indeed, America appears to be doing more for Haiti than it did for itself post-Katrina - for which the Republican party should never be allowed to return to power. If a controlling political Party is so incompetant that it cannot prevent its own citizens from needlessly dying after a crisis, then it really should be put to rest. Rest In Peace GOP. Let us never forget.



.

What reason could you have that would make you have to "remind" us...

Lets see England over extend its self trying to help...like we did in WW2 when England wasn't our "neighbor" so to speak...


The US always helps...like no other Nation in the world...and you know that...there is no other nation in the world that has our track record...at least not that I know of...why would you think that we wouldn't help now...

you just wanted to use peoples suffering to take a swipe at the Republicans...thats all...


a low blow even for you...but not surprising...

Cass
01-15-2010, 05:21 AM
Indeed, America appears to be doing more for Haiti than it did for itself post-Katrina - for which the Republican party should never be allowed to return to power. If a controlling political Party is so incompetant that it cannot prevent its own citizens from needlessly dying after a crisis, then it really should be put to rest. Rest In Peace GOP. Let us never forget.





No one was ready for Katrina...if the Dems were in power at the time they would have taken the criticism...and the same thing would have happened...none of the previous administrations, regardless of party, had anything in place to deal with a natural disaster of that magnatude...since then some things have changed....we could talk all day about who's responsibility the response, or lack of it, to Katrina was but the important thing is to learn from it and try and put things in place so the next time the response will be better regardless of the party in charge at the time...

Like I said be for...neither party had prepared for a Katrina so for you to say...


If a controlling political Party is so incompetent that it cannot prevent its own citizens from needlessly dying after a crisis, then it really should be put to rest. Rest In Peace GOP. Let us never forget.

You must include the democrats....

I dislike non citizens criticizing the US after we saved them from...

http://thm-a01.yimg.com/nimage/3e38f0bc48a408a8 (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0WTb_jwbVBLXWQBwe2JzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBpdnJhMHU zBHBvcwMxBHNlYwNzcgR2dGlkAw--/SIG=1gfjdd1ip/EXP=1263648624/**http%3A//images.search.yahoo.com/images/view%3Fback=http%253A%252F%252Fimages.search.yahoo .com%252Fsearch%252Fimages%253Fp%253Dhitler%2526ei %253Dutf-8%2526fr%253Dsfp%26w=316%26h=237%26imgurl=www.news .com.au%252Fcommon%252Fimagedata%252F0%252C%252C63 57645%252C00.jpg%26rurl=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.new s.com.au%252Fstory%252F0%252C27574%252C24675252-13762%252C00.html%26size=13k%26name=Adolf%2BHitler %26p=hitler%26oid=3e38f0bc48a408a8%26fr2=%26no=1%2 6tt=1027585%26sigr=11raqrd5d%26sigi=11ivfl439%26si gb=1259aqlqr)

Your just another monday morning quarterback...

I am glad you are writing a check....

FloridaOrange
01-15-2010, 06:48 AM
No one was ready for Katrina...if the Dems were in power at the time they would have taken the criticism...and the same thing would have happened...none of the previous administrations, regardless of party, had anything in place to deal with a natural disaster of that magnatude.

The biggest failure with Katrina was that the state and city wasn't prepared. For first responders the state of Florida has taken care of itself quite well and even when Andrew and to a lesser extent Charlie tore through the state the State took care of initial response and relied on the federal gov't (NG and monetarily) only for assistance.

Dunbar Plumbing
01-15-2010, 08:54 AM
Ever wonder why 2 million could show up at sub-zero temperatures, take off work for the swearing in of the president....


but if its 85 degrees and 3 days notice...not a chance?

Katrina's problems started with the people, and there's no way around that statement. Just look at how they acted within mere hours after the event.

Looting the walmart, stealing everything there was said everything about the people...and that was not random.


History will write that event as a burden that fell on the people for being so ignorant. The videos don't lie...

Gary Slusser
01-15-2010, 11:10 AM
I hear that the US has paid $3 billion into Haiti over many decades.

I see no good coming out of it but 3 million Haitians being made dependent on it for their survival. And now the $100 million OBAMA! has pledged will go for nothing until there is law and order down there and there is an end to the widespread corruption. Without military control I doubt either will happen anytime soon.

I've seen a couple documentaries on Katrina. I visited New Orleans a year after Katrina. The city and state officials were much more responsible for the lack of government help not being available than anything else; especially federal help. The orders to evacuate and to mobilize city and state resources were way too late and so was the call for federal help by the state, which was the only one that could ask for help or set up the conditions where the federal government could help legally. And of course Bush and the Republicans were and still are being falsely blamed by uninformed partisan people and the OBAMA! lovin' drive by media.

Peter Griffin
01-15-2010, 03:23 PM
They are projecting 50,000 + dead and you guys are arguing the politics? Like humanitarian efforts are a right or left thing.

Ian Gills
01-16-2010, 05:12 AM
Lets see England over extend its self trying to help...like we did in WW2 when England wasn't our "neighbor" so to speak...

Two words....Pearl Harbor.

That means it was your War as well. Or were you ready just to let that one go? I don't recall seeing any American troops in Europe before that.


No one was ready for Katrina...

$100 million of Federal Funds announced two days after would have helped. Just like for Haiti.


They are projecting 50,000 + dead and you guys are arguing the politics? Like humanitarian efforts are a right or left thing.


All of this help IS political.


The city and state officials were much more responsible for the lack of government help not being available than anything else; especially federal help...And of course Bush and the Republicans were and still are being falsely blamed by uninformed partisan people and the OBAMA! lovin' drive by media. Glad you think Americans suffering on someone's watch is OK. Your Government has an easy time of pleasing its voters doesn't it? People die and you're lining up to vote them in again.

Cass
01-16-2010, 05:30 AM
Two words....Pearl Harbor.



The US looked at the problems in Europe as their problems but as in all things there is a tipping point...

I guess we didn't jump when England snapped their fingers...

Who else was going to help to the extent we did...tell me of all the other country's that sent Ships, Planes, and men like the US????

Or was it only the Capitalistic Horrible Americans that could help you out of your plight...

I'll tell you this...if we were a country like all the others we wouldn't have been there to the extent we were...

we might not have been there at all...

Cass
01-16-2010, 05:36 AM
Two words....Pearl Harbor.

That means it was your War as well. Or were you ready just to let that one go? I don't recall seeing any American troops in Europe before that.



$100 million of Federal Funds announced two days after would have helped. Just like for Haiti.



All of this help IS political.

Glad you think Americans suffering on someone's watch is OK. Your Government has an easy time of pleasing its voters doesn't it? People die and you're lining up to vote them in again.

I suspect you may be one of those people that nothing pleases them...nothing is ever good enough...

I agree about it all being political...but how could you possibly think it wouldn't be...when governments are involved every thing they do is political regardless of party...

Cass
01-16-2010, 05:49 AM
Why are you always slamming the US...to the exclusion of other countrys like your own...or is England doing a bang up job...How many ships, planes, and troops are on their way there now from England...

Dunbar Plumbing
01-16-2010, 08:02 AM
200.000 dead so far.

The death there before this event was disturbing due to the corrupt government and its dismissal of its own people.


That number above is going to go way up as the ones currently there are not prepared to deal with such dangerous health risks involving the death of others.

The fast burials are done to prevent the spread of disease.


Before this happened, 1 in 10 had access to potable water, water that you can drink.

How in the world do you go into a situation like this, help care for the sick and dying, then at some point reverse your course and allow the existence of these people to return back to where they was...because the billions of dollars that was pumped into this country by the United States has not afforded much in the times prior.

jimbo
01-16-2010, 01:53 PM
Haiti was a fourth world corrupt and morally bankrupt country before. The aid forthcoming might raise them to third world.

Chew on that for a while!

Ian Gills
01-16-2010, 03:15 PM
Who else was going to help to the extent we did...tell me of all the other country's that sent Ships, Planes, and men like the US????

Technically, we were helping the French (who were occupied) and you were helping them and us (never occupied) help them.

Which is funny, because the French helped you from us. But we forgive and forget. I wish you would do the same with Cuba.

Haiti is a good start though. The inflows of aid they are getting are sure adding up which, tragedy aside, might just put the country on a better footing for those that do survive.


How many ships, planes, and troops are on their way there now from England...

$16 million and countless men. It's not even "one of ours". http://www.dfid.gov.uk/Media-Room/News-Stories/2010/Haiti-Earthquake/

Dunbar Plumbing
01-16-2010, 07:02 PM
Haiti was a fourth world corrupt and morally bankrupt country before. The aid forthcoming might raise them to third world.

Chew on that for a while!


Correct....and we (US) are going to have to cut and run when death count subsides.


It's a country that cannot be fixed with the 1000's of years of corruption and squander upon its people.

Redwood
01-16-2010, 07:15 PM
I'm doing my part for this event...built a website for those who need it for locating family members.

Got a link?

Scuba_Dave
01-16-2010, 07:18 PM
It's time to stop supporting corrupt Govts IMO
Of course it happens everywhere to a degree


2006:
Haiti has been ranked as the most corrupt country in the World by Transparency International (TI), followed by Burma and Iraq

Dunbar Plumbing
01-16-2010, 07:33 PM
Got a link?



Not until it is 100% built.

Cass
01-17-2010, 06:49 AM
Which is funny, because the French helped you from us. But we forgive and forget. I wish you would do the same with Cuba.



You will have to take that up with the Cubans that have taken refuge here because it is mostly that lobby that has pressured the US Gvmt. to do what they have been doing...Fidel is a 3rd world dictator and I can't figure out why you like him...

I do know that birds of a feather flock together...

Cass
01-17-2010, 07:03 AM
It is nice to see England is helping out....

I think where the ball gets dropped is when country's receive $$$ to help them get back on their feet, is that it never gets paid back...

I am not talking about humanitarian help...

Cass
01-17-2010, 11:11 AM
I had a customer whos family in Cuba had a large thriving buisness in sugar cane...When Fidel over throw the Gvmt. Fidel then took his familys land and home and threw them into the streets...

they were able to make it here....

Fidel seems to be very likeable to some I guess...

frenchie
01-18-2010, 08:44 AM
They are projecting 50,000 + dead and you guys are arguing the politics? Like humanitarian efforts are a right or left thing.

What he said!







Correct....and we (US) are going to have to cut and run when death count subsides.

It's a country that cannot be fixed with the 1000's of years of corruption and squander upon its people.


Haiti wasn't a country 1000 years ago. Not even a colony. Just an island with maybe a few indians (all gone, now...) living on it.



BTW, RE Tsunami funding - isn't the missing Tsunami money all aid given to local governments? AFAIK, the NGO's like doctors without borders, red cross & so on don't have these issues.

Dunbar Plumbing
01-18-2010, 05:23 PM
Correct....and we (US) are going to have to cut and run when death count subsides.


It's a country that cannot be fixed with the 1000's of years of corruption and squander upon its people.


Did you read the above frenchie, or did your snopes account lead you to not caring about the bold statement above...


and now you have the gall to dismiss the "missing money" as someone else doesn't do those sort of things.


Once again, you always ride the wrong side of normal thinking just to get a point across. Predictable though from the times I've seen.


So ignore the situation when the time comes that the help has to leave, ignore that for a fact that country is riddled with corruption.

You rarely offer much to the discussion of reasonable thinking.

frenchie
01-20-2010, 08:39 AM
The bold statement isn't news. What am I supposed to say? Like you’re telling me the sky is blue. Not ignoring it… but what am I supposed to say?

We will slowly pull out as it stops being news, and forget all about the people in Haiti until the next time they have a revolution or an earthquake or a hurricane... Yeah, and?

Same with the plain fact that the country is riddled with corruption… yeah, and?


I'm not dismissing the missing money. Money that the State Department or the Defense Department or some other branch of the federal government, hands out to the local "government" of 3rd world hellholes… tends to disappear. Same with UN money. I'm supposed to say... what? Yes, the sky is blue, Dunbar. What’s your point?

But you were saying, we shouldn't donate.

Private donations are SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. Grab a clue. You’re not talking government, you’re talking Red Cross and Partners in Health and a whole bunch of churches, working directly with the people who need help.


So I’m asking you: was it the charities & relief organizations, that lost track of money to local crooks? Or only government money? I don’t have a choise about paying taxes, but I do have a choice about which NGO’s I give money to.

If you don't know the answer, just say so, instead of trying to jump down my throat.

Don’t worry, it’s not like I’m expecting a whole lot from a guy who says a 200-year old country has been corrupt for thousands of years… tell me, do you even have a clue what the 'NG' part of 'NGO' stands for?



Reasonable thinking starts from actual facts, not “whatever reasonable sounding BS Dunbar feels like inventing today”.

Dunbar Plumbing
01-20-2010, 09:18 AM
You're wasting everyone's time including mine with your long drawn out explanation. You have a credibility issue from the election in 08'...so you can knock me for not knowing the actual number of years Haiti has been in existence, but the real issue here is you are backpeddling at this point.

No regulation on how this money is spent is why I'm mentioning the reason.....because after every tragedy, MILLIONS go into the wrong hands.

frenchie
01-20-2010, 10:23 AM
You're wasting everyone's time including mine with your long drawn out explanation. You have a credibility issue from the election in 08'...

Huh? Explain.

Or are you talking about the birther conspiracy stuff? If so... you might want to have a look at how many of the people pushing that, are the same fine folks who claimed 9/11 was an inside job by Bush & Cheney. Seriously - nothing right/left about those folks, more like sane/crazy.



so you can knock me for not knowing the actual number of years Haiti has been in existence,

I knocked for for not having even a vague clue - and talking as if you did.

If you'd only been off by a few hundred years, I wounldn't have said anything. But come on. It's in the Carribean. You do know who Chris Columbus was, right?



but the real issue here is you are backpeddling at this point.

How's that? Not my fault if you didn't understand the first time, and I had to spell it out for you in more detail.

Let me sum it up for you: You're telling people not to make PRIVATE DONATIONS, because of the way their TAXES get spent.



No regulation on how this money is spent is why I'm mentioning the reason.....because after every tragedy, MILLIONS go into the wrong hands.

I wonder how we find out about it, anyways? Since there's no enforcement, classic fox watching the henhouse...

Whaddya know... another one of them NGO's! Here's who broke the story on the Tsunami funds:

http://www.transparency.org/

Hey, maybe you want to give THEM some money? Even you have to admit they do good work, right? Think how much more money would go missing if they weren't keeping an eye on things.