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yngwie_69
12-24-2009, 12:51 PM
For the life of me I can not get any reliable info on sharkbites.

I hate using them and only use them when I have no choice.

I live in B.C. Canada

Can someone answer these questions for me.

Does code accept them?
Behind walls?
underground?
Soft Copper?

I told my boss I dont like using them underground on soft copper becuase, soft copper is never perfectly round and if they dont line up they tend to leak.

So say I used one underground, got it lined up nice and had no leaks. As soon as the ground settles its going to cause the joint to leak. I insisted on him getting 1/2" corp succ couplins

I find sharkbites for the lazy plumber or people who dont know how to plumb.

hj
12-24-2009, 01:53 PM
And WHY is the ground going to settle if the pipe has been there long enough to require a repair? Soft copper is another thing if it is out of round to start with, but it will NOT get out of round just because you installed the SB fitting. The company says they are approved for all those applications.

Doherty Plumbing
12-24-2009, 02:26 PM
For the life of me I can not get any reliable info on sharkbites.

I hate using them and only use them when I have no choice.

I live in B.C. Canada

Can someone answer these questions for me.

Does code accept them?
Behind walls?
underground?
Soft Copper?

I told my boss I dont like using them underground on soft copper becuase, soft copper is never perfectly round and if they dont line up they tend to leak.

So say I used one underground, got it lined up nice and had no leaks. As soon as the ground settles its going to cause the joint to leak. I insisted on him getting 1/2" corp succ couplins

I find sharkbites for the lazy plumber or people who dont know how to plumb.

You can use sharkbites just about anywhere.

Sharkbites aren't for lazy plumbers because in certain situations they're a life saver and could save you hours of time.

Peter Griffin
12-24-2009, 02:30 PM
I bill for those hours of time ;)

Doherty Plumbing
12-24-2009, 02:31 PM
I bill for those hours of time ;)

Then maybe you're not all that honest ;)

Peter Griffin
12-24-2009, 02:37 PM
What's not honest about billing for hours of time? I thought that is the whole point of doing service ;)

Ask yourself (if you are old enough) what on earth did plumbers ever do before sharkbites, aav's, ferncos, flexi supplies and all the other labor saving miracles we have now. I'll tell you what, WE MADE MORE MONEY! and we did it the right way.

Doherty Plumbing
12-24-2009, 02:42 PM
What's not honest about billing for hours of time? I thought that is the whole point of doing service ;)

Absolutely nothing. But you would be billing for hours of your time you didn't invest into the job.

Using your logic I should say to my next customer "Well back in the day all drainage was threaded steel pipe so I'm gonna charge $12,000 instead of $3,000 because of how much time it would take if we didn't have technology."

I can't exactly see that going over so well.

If anything I'd just charge more for the fitting and a minimum for coming out including all travel time.

But to each their own!. If you can show up for 10 minutes and charge for 3 hours and your customer doesn't complain I would say that I am jealous of that! Because around here I couldn't get away with doing that.

Peter Griffin
12-24-2009, 03:22 PM
At what point did you get the notion that I would ever bill for hours that we were not there?


What I would do is show up on the job. Repair the leaking pipe with a solder coupling, or pex coupling or cpvc coupling and bill for the time I was there. In no case would I slap a sharkbite on it. Nor will I slap an aav on a vent just to save an hour or so's worth of time. Our customers know that going in and that's why we are the largest plumbing company in the county. There's the quick and easy way, and there's the solid quality way. Customers call us because we never take shortcuts.

Doherty Plumbing
12-24-2009, 04:15 PM
At what point did you get the notion that I would ever bill for hours that we were not there?


What I would do is show up on the job. Repair the leaking pipe with a solder coupling, or pex coupling or cpvc coupling and bill for the time I was there. In no case would I slap a sharkbite on it. Nor will I slap an aav on a vent just to save an hour or so's worth of time. Our customers know that going in and that's why we are the largest plumbing company in the county. There's the quick and easy way, and there's the solid quality way. Customers call us because we never take shortcuts.

Ohhhh Well I said that a sharkbite could save someone hours of time and then you said "I charge for that time" so to me I read it as you still charge for that time even though you fixed it quicker!

Just some miss communication my friend ;)

But yes I agree I don't use sharkbites unless I have too. But sometimes they're just so handy!

ChuckS
12-25-2009, 12:07 AM
Ohhhh Well I said that a sharkbite could save someone hours of time and then you said "I charge for that time" so to me I read it as you still charge for that time even though you fixed it quicker!

Just some miss communication my friend ;)

But yes I agree I don't use sharkbites unless I have too. But sometimes they're just so handy!

I took the statement that way also. First thing I thought is how life would be expensive if everyone took that attitude. The accountant would do your taxes long hand instead of using a computer because "he charges for that time". What if the carpenter didn't use a nail gun or power saw? What if the auto makers refused to use robots or other manufacturers refused to use automation?

Sure, unemployment would be waaay down but bread would cost a mint...

dx
12-25-2009, 04:27 PM
I didn't take the statement to mean he was going to charge more than time actually spent, but...

If my plumber were to charge me for an hour of labor soldering pipes when he could have done it in 5 minutes with sharkbites, I wouldn't like it. I do consider that as a form of dishonesty.

My plumber would never think of sandbagging that way.

Peter Griffin
12-25-2009, 04:49 PM
why would you even bother to call a plumber if he's just going to use a sharkbite. You can do that yourself.

dx
12-25-2009, 10:12 PM
Yes I can do that myself and I can do pretty much everything my plumber can do regardless of what kind of fittings are used.

As a GC, the reason I use a plumber is the same reason I use a carpenter, a mason, an electrician and a painter. I stick to my job and let them do theirs.

I don't consider sharbites inferior to soldered fittings at all. And if the pipes cannot be completely purged of water, I consider the sharkbites to be more reliable.

Peter Griffin
12-26-2009, 05:18 AM
Yes I can do that myself and I can do pretty much everything my plumber can do regardless of what kind of fittings are used.

As a GC, the reason I use a plumber is the same reason I use a carpenter, a mason, an electrician and a painter. I stick to my job and let them do theirs.

I don't consider sharbites inferior to soldered fittings at all. And if the pipes cannot be completely purged of water, I consider the sharkbites to be more reliable.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. The sharkbite argument rages on on just about every DIY forum out there. They are here and they will probably be around at least until they begin failing and the lawsuits begin. I am a plumber. I am licensed and trained. Water in the pipe is not an issue for a professional. If you would rather stick the pipes together with a couple rubber O rings then go for it. I would rather make a solid, reliable repair that I know will last for years. It's going to take me less than an hour either way. Either way I'm charging for an hour's labor plus parts. The sharkbite coupling costs me about 6 bucks, and a copper one about 45 cents. It's going to cost a couple dollars less to have me fix it right.

johnjh2o1
12-26-2009, 09:32 AM
I didn't take the statement to mean he was going to charge more than time actually spent, but...

If my plumber were to charge me for an hour of labor soldering pipes when he could have done it in 5 minutes with sharkbites, I wouldn't like it. I do consider that as a form of dishonesty.

My plumber would never think of sandbagging that way.

Most plumbers have a minimum charge of one hr. The question becomes would you rather have a sharkbite or a soldered joint? I don't see where a sharkbite can save you hrs. of time to solder one joint.

John

Doherty Plumbing
12-26-2009, 12:01 PM
Most plumbers have a minimum charge of one hr. The question becomes would you rather have a sharkbite or a soldered joint? I don't see where a sharkbite can save you hrs. of time to solder one joint.

John

Then you've obviously never had to make a repair in large commercial building like an apartment building where you sometime have to wait a LONG time for the building to drain.

Or you've never had a leak up around a corner where you can barely reach let alone solder.

Would I use a sharkbite on a readily accessible chunk of pipe? Ofcourse not.

But they can save you HOURS of time in certain situations.

johnjh2o1
12-26-2009, 12:18 PM
Then you've obviously never had to make a repair in large commercial building like an apartment building where you sometime have to wait a LONG time for the building to drain.

Or you've never had a leak up around a corner where you can barely reach let alone solder.

Would I use a sharkbite on a readily accessible chunk of pipe? Ofcourse not.

But they can save you HOURS of time in certain situations.

You have no idea of what experience I do or do not have. There are many ways to make repair on water lines in large buildings with out having to wait for all the water to drain, after you have the time and experience in the trade that I have you to may be able to make these repairs with out sharkbites.

John

Doherty Plumbing
12-26-2009, 12:41 PM
You have no idea of what experience I do or do not have. There are many ways to make repair on water lines in large buildings with out having to wait for all the water to drain, after you have the time and experience in the trade that I have you to may be able to make these repairs with out sharkbites.

John

I didn't mean it to be offensive!

Ofcourse there are many ways to make repairs without sharkbites.

Pasco quick sweat tool...
Ridgid freezing machine...
The old bread trick....

etc.

But still sometimes nothing beats a sharkbite!!!!!

Peter Griffin
12-26-2009, 12:47 PM
OK, but what did you do 10 years ago?

“Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. Darth Vader

Doherty Plumbing
12-26-2009, 12:51 PM
OK, but what did you do 10 years ago?

“Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. Darth Vader

Waited :D

..........

cwhyu2
12-26-2009, 04:22 PM
Most plumbers have a minimum charge of one hr. The question becomes would you rather have a sharkbite or a soldered joint? I don't see where a sharkbite can save you hrs. of time to solder one joint.

John
The only fitting that I would use under ground copper to copper is a flare coupling.Or you could use a pack coupling.

Couch-Tuber
12-28-2009, 11:38 AM
I tried a sharkbite 4" sleeve the other night to fix a leak. THe existing pipe was less than pristine lol and the sleeve would not seal even though it was seated down the 1" required. The pipes gotta be in very good condition and line up, which mine are not. It was a real pain trying to get the thing off again with that little collet tool. I had to assist it with an 18" prybar.

Rubber seals it what they use inside. Are you kidding me? Even if I could have gotten one to seal, I'm skeptical that these would hold up after a few years. Rubber high tech silicon etc will break down eventually. I see these as a stop gap temporary solution. They would be okay if you have ready access like a basement but hidden in the walls?

AAnderson
12-28-2009, 03:05 PM
I like shark bites but would never use them where they are not accessible or could fail and create water damage. I have had several 3/4" tee's fail with cracks in the cast. They are an excellent stop gap repair.. Our local building inspectors do not like them,

moisheh
02-12-2010, 12:38 PM
Peter Griffin should change his avatar to include Master Thief" What he really stated was that if there is a quick way to do a repair he will pick the long way to increase his billable hours. Amazing that he thinks that is honest.


Moisheh

Peter Griffin
02-12-2010, 03:16 PM
Tell you what. If you call me for a leaking pipe I'll slap one of these on it and I won't charge you a penny. ;)9978

Do you want it done, or do you want it done right?

Cass
02-13-2010, 05:26 AM
After looking at a job I charge a flat rate to do it...so all is well for me reguardless...they can take it or leave it but I get a minimum for coming out just to tell them and they won't know if I am using a sharkbite or not unless they ask...as I don't describe every fitting I am going to use to do a particular job...all they have to know is I stand behind my work...

Peter Griffin
02-13-2010, 05:36 AM
Peter Griffin should change his avatar to include Master Thief" What he really stated was that if there is a quick way to do a repair he will pick the long way to increase his billable hours. Amazing that he thinks that is honest.


Moisheh

If you want the quick way, then toddle on down to the Depot and pick up a couple of sharkbites for yourself. You don't need to hire a plumber to slap a sharkbite on it. Anyone can do it. While you are at it, pick up a couple of those accordian tail stocks and a handful of rubber P traps and you will never have to spend a dime on a job done right ever again.

Cass
02-13-2010, 06:06 AM
Most plumbers have a minimum charge of one hr. The question becomes would you rather have a sharkbite or a soldered joint? I don't see where a sharkbite can save you hrs. of time to solder one joint.

John


I will tell you...when you have to make a repair and the main shutoff won't close all the way and water is leaking by...you say turn the water off at the curb stop???...not if one can't be found...sorry I don't carry a nitrogen freeze set up that I can use once every 15 years or so...so I used a sharkbite...nope I don't have a jet sweat or any thing else either....not enough call to carry one on the truck...sharkbites do have a place in some situations....conpression fitting...I would rather use a sharkbite in the situation I was in than a compression fitting...

Peter Griffin
02-13-2010, 06:26 AM
I always had a 1/2" and a 3/4 jet swett on the truck. Just so though, why do you prefer a sharkbite over a compression union? IMO the compression coupling is a much more solid connection, not that I would do that either. The problem with sharkbites is they will leak if they are pulled on or stressed. Also I have been reading of quite a lot of O ring failures also. Granted most of them are because someone did'nt take the sharp edge off the copper before jamming it on. I have a problem with putting my faith in a piect of plastic with a couple of O rings in it.

Cass
02-13-2010, 06:35 AM
A jet sweat will only work if your installing a valve...BTW sharkbites are brass not plastic...your thinking of Watts...

Peter Griffin
02-13-2010, 07:08 AM
Union or drain coupling. Yep, Watts are plastic. I think there is another company making plastic ones too. Maybe Gator bite?

Cass
02-13-2010, 07:12 AM
Never needed a jet sweat for a drain...I would use a banded coupling.....a union leaves you in the same situation, unable to sweat a joint because of water, unless you are installing a valve...

hj
02-13-2010, 07:38 AM
quote; Repair the leaking pipe with a solder coupling,

NO conscientious, law abiding plumber would repair an underground leak inside the house with a soft solder joint. And unless you use oxy/acetylene brazing or silver soldering in a hole is almost impossible. But it WOULD require a lot more billable time. I have not seen a Sharkbite large enough to repair a drain.

Cass
02-13-2010, 07:46 AM
and while Sharkbites are OK for underground repairs per the Sharkbite info. I would never use one of them for an underground repair...even if approved localy...

johnjh2o1
02-13-2010, 07:54 AM
A jet sweat will only work if your installing a valve...BTW sharkbites are brass not plastic...your thinking of Watts...

We carry a jet sweat kit from 1/2"- 2". You stated you use sharkbites when a main shutoff won't close all the way so why not use a jet sweat and install a new valve. This would solve not just the imitate problem but would also solve future problems.

John

Peter Griffin
02-13-2010, 06:05 PM
Who said anything about underground or under slab? That be a whole different kettle o fish.

dx
02-14-2010, 09:04 PM
Who said anything about underground or under slab? That be a whole different kettle o fish.

That was the original subject of the thread. Read the very first post.

Peter Griffin
02-15-2010, 03:04 AM
Oh yes, thanks. So then we're talking brazing the joint or a dresser coupling.

Cass
02-15-2010, 04:49 AM
We carry a jet sweat kit from 1/2"- 2". You stated you use sharkbites when a main shutoff won't close all the way so why not use a jet sweat and install a new valve. This would solve not just the imitate problem but would also solve future problems.

John

I asked and they didn't want to spring for a new valve....had they wanted a new valve I would have had the town find or install a new curb stop...

eddielee
05-24-2010, 04:00 PM
Yes I can do that myself and I can do pretty much everything my plumber can do regardless of what kind of fittings are used.

As a GC, the reason I use a plumber is the same reason I use a carpenter, a mason, an electrician and a painter. I stick to my job and let them do theirs.

I don't consider sharbites inferior to soldered fittings at all. And if the pipes cannot be completely purged of water, I consider the sharkbites to be more reliable.

Take it outside and lets get back to helpful tips!

Wally Hays
05-24-2010, 05:42 PM
It's 3 months old Eddie, let it die

Redwood
05-25-2010, 10:03 AM
It's 3 months old Eddie, let it die

Good idea!

No point in arguing when the difference between a SharkBite and a Schwinn Coupling can't be realized...

As far as relying on EPDM o-rings to hold back water under pressure I guess we'll just have to sweat it out over all the Pro-Press, flushometers, faucets, mixers, and other stuff that uses o-rings to seal...

I'm Sweating... Some of them time bombs have been ticking 35 years without a problem yet...

Oh well...
I'll continue to use SharkBites in situations where there use is warranted...
They have saved the day for me and my customers on many occasions...
They are a valuable tool in the plumbers tool box, but they aren't the only tool in there...
The key is knowing when to reach for it....

idratherbeplumbing
01-07-2013, 03:46 PM
What's not honest about billing for hours of time? I thought that is the whole point of doing service ;)

Ask yourself (if you are old enough) what on earth did plumbers ever do before sharkbites, aav's, ferncos, flexi supplies and all the other labor saving miracles we have now. I'll tell you what, WE MADE MORE MONEY! and we did it the right way.

i agree. wise man once told me. make it hard for them to work on. as soon as joe blow realizes he can make a connection with bare hands and even use a span wrench to remove it. what are you going to do with all your copper fittings

idratherbeplumbing
01-07-2013, 03:53 PM
you want a 5 minute house?