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Peter Griffin
12-23-2009, 03:39 PM
From having nationalized health care whether we like it or not.

frenchie
12-23-2009, 10:31 PM
We're not getting nationalized health care. We're not even getting nationalized health insurance.

We're getting mandatory private health insurance.

Big difference.




.

Dunbar Plumbing
12-23-2009, 11:02 PM
I'm not going to give a **** till the bill comes in the mail.


I heard it's not effective till 2012......so maybe I'll go ahead and marry a norweigan swimsuit model that came into a ton of money. (cough! Tiger Wood's Ex) I bet I'll get health insurance!

Cass
12-24-2009, 05:14 AM
Yup...no national health care and there will be many challenges as to weather or not health care can be mandatory which I doubt...it is not Constutional...

This "Health Care Bill" is nothing but a big business give away..that is why the health care stocks soared the past few days..

The Tax and spend libs just did what they do well....there has been no change and there is no openness or transparancy...all was done behind closed doors...wait till we see the "Christmas presents" are that are under this "tree"...

Throw them all out this year...

Cass
12-24-2009, 05:16 AM
I'm not going to give a **** till the bill comes in the mail.




Steve..the time to deal with the bill is before it comes in the mail...:)

Runs with bison
12-24-2009, 09:50 AM
This is a big business bill, not a progressive or liberal one. GOP might as well have written it, it looks like their handiwork.

MaintenanceMan
12-24-2009, 11:53 AM
This is nothing but a nightmare being rammed down our throats.

jimbo
12-24-2009, 03:01 PM
As I understand it, the "health care" whatever that means, comes in 2013 at the earliest. We start PAYING in January!

Cookie
12-25-2009, 10:50 AM
Well, I am not for the health care bill the way it is proposed. But maybe in the long run it might work out if you get diagnosed with some heafty ticket items. Pet scans alone can cost and does cost me 39 grand a year. Regular CT's 19 almost 20 thousand a year. So, if you are well yet consider yourself lucky and hope this bill will help you. I see nothing else that can be done now, so give it a whirl. If you are lucky you will never have to use it. That could be a blessing in disguise.

Ian Gills
12-26-2009, 06:30 PM
All I care about is that some of the 47 million uninsured get access to healthcare.

I'm not American bit I guess I am one of the very few here who cares about Americans.

They are nice people.

I'm ready to pay for them.

Sorry you might not be able to buy that new truck this year but it's for the greater good.

Cookie
12-26-2009, 06:36 PM
If you want to really want to help the americans that are uninsured then, visit under the bridges and see the homeless. Because unless you get them a residence address that health care bill will mean nothing. They need an address to apply. Same with the homeless trying to get even welfare. They can't get it until, they have an address. They are caught up in a real catch 22.

Were you aware of this?

Ian Gills
12-26-2009, 06:42 PM
Yes. Unfortunately that is the same with homeless people almost everywhere, except in those countries with nationalized healthcare but even in these homeless people struggle to get benefits and jobs without a permanent residence.

Many homeless don't want an "address" in great part because they do not want to be with other people, even if there are programs to help them secure a home.

I hope homelessness is a choice in the US like elsewhere. If not, then that would be something to be very disappointed about alongside your tragic state of healthcare for the general population.

I drop my change in the homeless guys' cups every now and again.

They promptly spend that on drink.

It's no different to buying a truck when you should be spending that money on healthcare, both for yourself and your fellow citizens.

frenchie
12-26-2009, 07:23 PM
If you want to really want to help the americans that are uninsured then, visit under the bridges and see the homeless. Because unless you get them a residence address that health care bill will mean nothing. They need an address to apply. Same with the homeless trying to get even welfare. They can't get it until, they have an address. They are caught up in a real catch 22.

Were you aware of this?

I'm aware it isn't true, about welfare, anyways. In NYC... and a quick bit of googling tells me it isn't true in a lot of other places, either: California, Washington, Massachussets... In fact, I couldn't find any indication that it's true anywhere.

Cookie
12-26-2009, 10:01 PM
Hi French,

In order to get welfare you need a permanent address, no ifs or buts about it. Contact social services in any state you will find that out. It will be the same with the new health care bill, too. Permanent residency or no dice.

MaintenanceMan
12-27-2009, 07:06 AM
Ian, read this....

http://www.juntosociety.com/patriotism/inytg.html

...then maybe you'll understand that it is up to US to individually and privately take care of each other how WE see fit....PRIVATELY! Not by our government or how our government wishes.

The people of this country used to roar like lions for their freedoms. Now we cry like children for some security. Instead of providing for ourselves and taking care of our own we look to a government that can only give what it has taken from someone else. Or, in our case, by also printing/borrowing more money that we don't have. All to only be redistributed as a bureaucrat sees fit.

frenchie
12-27-2009, 10:09 AM
Hi French,

In order to get welfare you need a permanent address, no ifs or buts about it. Contact social services in any state you will find that out.


It might be true in your state - not saying it isn't - but it's NOT TRUE HERE, Cookie. Here, being homeless means you qualify for "emergency" benefits, instead of regular old "temporary" benefits - in other words, you get fast-tracked, and you don't need to fulfill the usual 20-hour work requirement, if you're homeless.

http://www.otda.state.ny.us/MAIN/ta/#programs


Explain to me, why there's anything at all about TANF on this web-page? It's a tutorial on assistance programs available to homeless people.

http://www.cms.gov/apps/firststep/content/tanf_tips.html


Kentucky Legal Aid's page on domestic violence:

"Do I need to have a permanent address to receive benefits?
No. You do not need to have a permanent address to receive TANF benefits."

http://kyjustice.org/node/756


North Dakota:

"Assistance may not be denied to otherwise technically eligible families merely because they are homeless; that is, have no fixed address. Thus, a lack of a permanent dwelling or of a fixed home address does not constitute a barrier to the receipt of TANF."

http://www.nd.gov/humanservices/policymanuals/tanf-508/400_17_10_20.htm


New Mexico:

"Who is eligible for TANF?
(...)
* You must live in New Mexico (homeless families can qualify)"

http://www.newmexicoresources.org/pages.cfm?ContentID=17&pageID=4&Subpages=%27yes%27&SecondLevelDynamicID=350&DynamicID=349


Washington State:

"Over the full 12-month study period ACES data identified 4,344 newly homeless families (...) About 73 percent of the entire group received cash grants, most, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families grants. Close to 90 percent had state-provided health insurance; close to 90 percent got Food Stamps. Sixty percent had been active DSHS welfare recipients in the month before they were newly coded as homeless"

http://publications.rda.dshs.wa.gov/348/

Ian Gills
12-28-2009, 06:05 PM
The people of this country used to roar like lions for their freedoms. Now we cry like children for some security. Instead of providing for ourselves and taking care of our own we look to a government that can only give what it has taken from someone else. Or, in our case, by also printing/borrowing more money that we don't have. All to only be redistributed as a bureaucrat sees fit.

Then why do you have a Government? And all these stupid building codes?

Where's the freedom?

Cookie
12-28-2009, 08:50 PM
Not trying to start a fight here, but Frenchie I am being honest saying only temporay aid is available, not a permanent welfare check if you are living in the streets, in an automobile, or a subway station, etc.

Ian Gills
12-31-2009, 12:28 PM
Permanent welfare checks? In America? That's news to me.

I thought the unemployed were promptly dropped after a period of time, so they can't even afford to buy a newspaper to find out about jobs or pay the bus fare to get to an interview.

frenchie
01-01-2010, 09:45 AM
Relatively permanent... since the welfare reforms of 1996, you can collect a maximum of 5 years. That's why it's called Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, (TANF).

Used to be called Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC), and you could collect it forever.



Under the old AFDC, the Feds designed the aid programs, determined eligibillity rules, etc - the States just administered it.

Under the newer TANF system, the Fed gives the States block grants, and while they do set some parameters (like the 5-year limit, for example), the States design & administer their own programs.

So, while there was always some variation, one State to another - for the last 13 years, there's been a lot more difference between one State's programs and another's.



That's why, although you can be homeless & collect here, or in those other States I cited (ND, KY, NM, or WA), that doesn't necessarily mean you can in Cookie's State. Every State has its own system.

Ian Gills
01-01-2010, 01:09 PM
We need to get rid of these pesky States and have one rule for all.

Cookie
01-01-2010, 01:40 PM
That's why, although you can be homeless & collect here, or in those other States I cited (ND, KY, NM, or WA), that doesn't necessarily mean you can in Cookie's State. Every State has its own system.

ha ha ha, I have my own state!

Cookie's State (the largest in the Federation)

State flower: Venus Fly Trap
State Song: I am Woman
State Emblem: One Red Shiny Stiletto
State Motto: Hear Me Roar

Rules:

1. Only women rule/I am woman

2. Husbands must Obey and turn over 3/4 of their earnings to the wife

3. Men must cook and clean and shine my stilettos

4. Men can only speak when spoken to ( very important rule)

5. Men only pay taxes

6 Special tax for French Poodle ownership

7. Breaking any or all Rule leads to bannishment to the UK.

Inclusion: IF orginally from the UK then said bannishment will be to correctiion: CUBA

*Rules are subject to change & have additions.

Ian Gills
01-01-2010, 02:17 PM
7. Breaking any or all Rule leads to bannishment to the UK.


...............:eek:

Cookie
01-01-2010, 02:29 PM
I don't think you were spoken to.

frenchie
01-01-2010, 02:31 PM
Which State ARE you in these days, Cookie? I actually have no idea.

Cookie
01-01-2010, 02:48 PM
Silver Clowd, C. State

Cookie
01-01-2010, 02:49 PM
...............:eek:

Do you have your french books out yet?

Ian Gills
01-01-2010, 05:01 PM
Non. Je ne parle pas francais. Généralement, les gens qui savant peu parlent becoup, et les gens qui savant beaucoup parlent peu.

Cookie
01-01-2010, 05:45 PM
Well, then we will have to send you to... let me think...

tick tick tick... wheels turning... brain is smoking...

CUBA! do you speak spanish?

Cookie
01-01-2010, 05:49 PM
You can speak. Frenchie can't.

Cass
01-02-2010, 12:14 AM
We need to get rid of these pesky States and have one rule for all.

No...we just need to get rid of these pesky Englishmen that keep sneeking in here when were not looking...:D

Cookie
01-02-2010, 05:38 AM
Now... who told you you could speak? Let alone think.

Cookie
01-02-2010, 05:42 AM
Here is the deal. Since I have to work today until, 5, all you men can speak in Cookie's State lol. Next I want to own an Island like Nicoloas Cage.

frenchie
01-02-2010, 12:43 PM
You can speak. Frenchie can't.

Quoi? Cookie, comment pourrais-tu cônter une telle histoire! Bien sûr que je parle Français, je parle Français depuis mon enfance... Je n'ai appris comment parler l'Anglais, qu'à l'âge de sept ou huit ans!

Oh, wait - did you mean I don't know how, or I'm not allowed?

Cookie
01-02-2010, 02:11 PM
ha ha ha, I knew you spoke French, so do I. We discussed that years ago. I meant you were not TO talk regardless of the language, lol.

Now, I am home and speaking out of turn is now back on. ;) ( you do know I hope I am kidding)

Cookie
01-02-2010, 02:13 PM
Maybe. Peut-etre, pas.

Ian Gills
01-04-2010, 12:57 PM
CUBA! do you speak spanish?

I have been to Cuba before (a long time before I came to the US).

Very poor, but great healthcare all paid for by tourist dollars (or should I say Euros).

Cookie
01-04-2010, 07:30 PM
I think maybe Ian you are confusing great healthcare with not paying for it. I kid around alot but I got to tell you about health I don't. Sometimes, Ian, you get what you pay for and this is one area this is true. You really want to be careful with what you got or who is paying your bills for it because they also have the last say over your health, and Ian, that is not going to be in your best interest, it is for theirs. I wish I could seriously, convince you of that, I would. I don't want you walking in my shoes to understand. I don't want anyone in my shoes to understand. Mine is a hard road with few people who know what I had to do to get it under control. I fought against all odds of winning with drugs you wouldn't believe, and I was in the earliest trials on some.I would had been written off by other insurances. I would probably astound everyone here. Maybe even gain alittle respect from those who don't like me. But that is okay, too. Take your health care provider very seriously.

Cass
01-05-2010, 07:06 AM
I have been to Cuba before (a long time before I came to the US).

Very poor, but great healthcare all paid for by tourist dollars (or should I say Euros).

I truly hope your tongue is in your cheek when you say that Cuba has great health care....

If your sincere about that statement you need to bite down hard on your tongue...

Cass
01-05-2010, 07:08 AM
Right now if someone is in Windsor Ontario and you have a heart attack they send them over the border into the US because they can't handle it there...

Once we get Public Health Care we will play ping pong with them,...

Ian Gills
01-05-2010, 10:31 AM
Cuba has fantastic healthcare because they pile all of their resources into it.

You'd know that if you'd ever been there which you won't because you guys love to hold a grudge.

Their high standard of healthcare is also one reason why Cubans have a higher life expectancy than Americans.

It's everything else there that has the problems because so much goes into health, and of course the small issue of the embargo.

One thing I find absolutely pathetic about America compared to Cuba is how this country deals with maternity. In Cuba, when women approach the end of their pregnancy, care is provided in specialized maternity hospitals, to monitor and control the health of the mother, which also implies that of the child. Women get 18 weeks maternity leave at full pay.

In the US, I feel ashamed as a human being to see your women walking around (or should I say sitting around) 8 months and 3 weeks pregnant at work just so they can squeeze the most out of their measly three months maternity leave (which being America is unpaid of course). I would not treat a dog like that. I have even seen American women go into labor at work. That is a pathetic symptom of this feable excuse for a society I find myself currently living in. By implication, the value of motherhood and children to American society is nil. And that's backed up by your awful public education system which is severely under-resourced. This is a nation of immigrants because no-one can afford to be born here, and those that are are left stupid.

Sweden, incidentally, offers 480 days (16 months) maternity leave at 62% pay, which can also be shared with father (who has a dedicated 60 days).

England currently has 39 weeks paid, rising to 52 weeks paid from April 2010 (6 weeks at 90% of full pay and remainder at a flat rate (as of 2009 = £123.06) or 90% of your salary if that is less than the flat rate).

But why the heck should you pay so someone else should have kids eh? We wouldn't want to infringe on your freedom now, would we? Well, ever thought where the next generation of taxpayers and workers comes from, stupid? No, not Mexico. It's called social responsibility.

This is why this country needs Less God and More Government. For the sake of the women and the kids. If the Titanic had been launched from America, the men would have climbed in the lifeboats first, leaving the women and children to drown.

Cookie
01-05-2010, 02:58 PM
Just so you know my dad was in England during the big one and defended your country. In Italy he lost his hearing, I never knew a hearing dad. He held no grudge. When I was little in grammar school I remember having to retreat to the scary part of the basement in the school crying my eyes out for my mom but I harbor no grudge having to do this, I am just glad my kids never had to experience the threat of being blown up. My freedom means everything to me. I will defend my country with my life. I raise my American flag with pride and I love my country, my fellowmen and women, my religion, and our God in which we trust.

Women choose to work during pregnancy. Women choose to get pregnant. Once a woman in Cuba drops her baby you want to tell me what their life is like after that fact? Are their lives comparable to the women here in the US. NO. Not even close.

Why is the state the govn according to the world of Ian supposed to support everything and everything? Why on earth do you want them to control everything? Are you not an adult or can think things out? You know very little about the US along with Frenchie and the more you try to understand the worse it gets. It almost gets comical.

You insulted the educational system you just insulted me. Thanks.

Take a long look at the stats of kids who kill themselves in other countries because of the demand, the overwhelming pressure dropped onto them. No thanks Ian, I will take an American kid with American parents anyday of the week over the stupid pressures brought on by parents and their goven. It is horribly SAD. What a waste.

If you bring a kid into this world you are accountable for this little person until he is able to do so for himself, legally to a certain age. I don't mind as well as most others born and bred in the US help others, but then, their is a line Ian... where you MUST be accountable for yourself. Why on earth do you think it should be spread around?

You will be so shocked someday if you get disagnosed with something big. You and among others are in for a rude awakening. I have tried to warn you and some others, I have been there; but no, you must learn yourself. So good luck.

Ian Gills
01-05-2010, 03:00 PM
I only insulted elements of the public education system. The private one here is among the best in the world as are the public schools in the lucky rich neighborhoods.

I do not want the Government to do everything. I just want it to do something. You pay for it after all.

And just because some Governments, like Cuba, do more than others does not mean that these countries are all bad because of it. That was the only point I was trying to make.

Cookie
01-05-2010, 03:05 PM
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Cookie
01-05-2010, 03:23 PM
What exactly do you consider rich? Outside the inner cities? Your attitude started busing in the 60's which didn't clearly work.

Ian Gills
01-05-2010, 03:30 PM
Schools with metal detectors because kids might bring knives and guns to school class are what I would call being in "poor" areas.

If all the instructors are inexperienced, and often the least effective, then I would call that being in a "poor" area.

If teachers are subjected, on a daily basis, to grossly inadequate classrooms with broken desks, cracked windows, unbearable heat, or no heat at all, dripping ceilings, insects and rodents, faulty or unavailable equipment, lack of access to copiers and supplies, not to mention a lack of administrative support for student misbehaviors, then I would call that school as being one in a "poor" area.


Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Is there a bear in your garden?

And the only problem with your fantastic school bus system is if you happen to fail to stop for one. Since school attendance is required by law, school buses are necessary to provide transportation to school. Or are we saying children, or even worse their parents, should have the freedom to choose whether or not they go to school? Puleese.

The American school bus system will someday save this country from a disaster. It's the only truely public transportation network you have.

Cookie
01-05-2010, 05:39 PM
Did you hear of Columbine? That is hardly a poor section of Co.
Teachers here have degrees & are certified. Teachers here care and go the distance. I am qualified which might ... surprise you to teach anywhere from grade K to college. Yikes I am old.

The conditions which you describe can also be found in any country in the world. In any home or any school. Anywhere, not just the states.

Why do you judge so much?

Lack of discipline? Are you kidding? First it has to start at home. You haven't lived until you see the parents of a child who won't sit down, stop swearing, ( where did he/she learn this) hitting other kids etc.

Bad behavior in parents leads to bad behavior in kids. The apple never falls far from the tree. When I look at a troubled kid I know I will find a troubled parent/caregiver, too. I am usually oh, so right.

I grew up in a lower class neighborhood. Our school had chalkboards, we didn't have access to copiers, LOL we shared books but we still learned. And, I had to walk a mile to school and then jump a train in the snow, okay, so not so.

The neighborhood I have lived in most of my married affluent life has a horrible rat problem. They visit at BBQ's, by walking right down the driveway. They drink at our streams. They live in the woods. We made the news more than once.

I put bait out under rocks, etc. We all do. Rats live anywhere Ian, they don't care if you are eating steak or hotdogs. The poor doesn't corner the market on them.

Ian Gills
01-05-2010, 05:44 PM
Why do you judge so much?

Because you are the richest country in the world.

Because we all feel the American way is the best way.

Because you should not stop striving to make that way even better.

Because you should not sit on your laurels.

And Cass's car causes global warming.

Scuba_Dave
01-05-2010, 06:09 PM
I always sit on my couch

Cookie
01-05-2010, 06:52 PM
I have friends in NZ who say the same thing about how rich we are. I actually copied with that copier available to me my bank statement. He thought I was asking for money. lol.
He said, " Kia Ora wahine where is your money?"

I don't like certain things about other countries educational system at all. It is not motivating it is simply demanding. School in many is 7 days a week, 8/10 hours a day. Many succumb to its pressure. Where is the play? That is very important. Where is the time spent with their parents having fun? The parents work long hours many days for different reasons.

Women in many countries do not even have a legal right to their kids. Only the dad has it. Many women do not live long because they end their own lives.

Their are far too many judges and chiefs.

Rehabber
01-05-2010, 10:20 PM
Ian, so if Cubas health care system is so good, why did a doctor have to be flown in from spain to treat Fidel? Would a Dr. have been flown in for anyone else? Our healthcare system isn't perfect, but it is way better than ANY nationalized system.

Cookie
01-05-2010, 11:06 PM
Agree with you Rehabber.

Here is a joke, know the difference between American wives and wives of other lands?
They take their own lives over their husbands, we take the husbands out, LOL.

Cookie
01-05-2010, 11:42 PM
I think you misunderstood the type of busing I was talking about. Back in the 60's they started taking kids from one neighborhood and busing them to another neighborhood's school in order to balance out educational equality.

So, I was bused to an even poorer section of the city where I was not accepted and those kids were bused to my section of the city and was not accepted.

Parents on both sides of the fence were concerned and angry.

It failed miserably.

But what was surprising was this. I looked up the results on this to see if I was right in what I thought might be the scenario.

We, in my neighborhood did succeed in learning even though socially it was miserable and the school was inadequate; and the kids who was bused to my neighborhood to a better school still failed.

I will say it time and time again learning starts at home. Parents need to be educated on how to stimulate their kids to want to learn.

Here is a cute but kind of sad story which is true. I was there.

In a grocery store a long time ago my son came up to me asking if he could have this book. It had a picture of Superman on the front. It wasn't expensive, it was above his years to read, but not mine. I could read it to him. I said, "yep, you can have that book."

The person I was with at the time, her little girl came up asking the same thing. Her mother said, " what do you want a book for?! go buy a candy bar!"

If you can't afford books, their is a book mobile. I used it every Monday night with the boys. They loved it. We got a book, got a cone to take home to eat while we read the book together.

Each sentence has an operative word. The last sentence in the last paragraph the operative word is, together.

If the parent cannot read their are other avenues. Growing up, my mother couldn't read. I taught her when I was in the 10th grade. But, my neighbor, a wonderful lady, Mrs. Campbell who has long since passed over got me my first library card and introduced me into the world of reading.

We would sit on her front porch with her cat, ( she used to wash in a detergent like woolite boy was he soft and fluffy) and she would read to me. A nice lady with a love for her cat and for reading.

I guess you know about RIF which I just happen to believe in.

Cookie
01-05-2010, 11:56 PM
If parents would allow their children to be who they are you would see less violence in schools. You would see the number of weapons being brought in diminish. You would see less bullies.

Parents pressure their kids to succeed. They want to say their kid is the best, the smartest, the prettiest and this is the worst thing a parent can do to their kid. They need to be accepted and heard by their parents. They need to know they are their own person and accountable for their own actions. Parents are so quick to assume their sons and daughters will make the wrong decisions that they take control and the kids end up rebelling and getting into trouble. The parents are then astounded, they say, NO NO, he or she never gave me any trouble. The parent never heard a word their kid said to know trouble was brewing. They are always the last to know. The kid pays the price and the kids their kid hurt and all families suffer.

You know what it takes to raise a kid? Love and commonsense.

Love we all know about. Love is to sacrifice for the better of another person. Your child is another person. Yet, we bring the kid into this world and instead of raising him, giving him the basics he will take with him thoughtout his life, another person is. A babysiter, another family member, mother in law, sister in law, after school programs, etc.

And, all the excuses will all fall into place soon after. Like, we need to work so much. My answer is, not if you restructure your lifestyle instead of sacrificing your child.

But people or parents don't want to hear that because they want to have it the way they want it. But when their kid gets lost in the shuffle they stupidly wonder why.

A kids first years in life belong in his home with a parent. He should wake up on Saturday and watch the toons and eat cereal. He should feel that person that is raising him nearby. That makes him feel secure. That feeling will last a lifetime.

So much of what we carry in our adulthood stems from our early youth.

If you have a kid he or she comes first.

Cookie
01-06-2010, 12:13 AM
So far Ian as the educational system it is parents who need to take a step back so it can improve. If you think I am down on parents, yes I am. They are their child's first teacher. It is a duty too many fail to keep and then, the educational system gets the blame.

So far as the health care? I gave you the thumbs up.

Cookie
01-06-2010, 12:27 AM
Parents use the schools and teachers as babysitters. Parents think nothing of sending their kids to school sick because they both have to work and won't take the time off, or use their sick days or personal days. Now the teacher is not only teaching the 3 R's but also, monitoring not one but maybe 8 sick kids out of 25 kids in one day. Then, the next day.

What is sweet is if we call the parents on it. Their kid has a fever is throwing up, got a bathroom problem and they tell the nurse or the teacher they have no one to pick up their kid and they can't leave work.

We are also working. Or trying to.

One mother told me to look into her daughter's backsack for she sent in extra pants.

This happens a lot. Mom's saying, " as soon as little Mary starts school I can go back to work." Yes, that might be true but figure out something ahead of time when little Mary is sick.

What does this eventually teach this kid? To maybe shirk the true responsibilty? That maybe, they come last? They feel unimportant and the mom or dad won't hear them when they say... I am sick, can I stay home? The parents expect the kid yet, to understand this.

When the teachers want a new contract and strike OH, MY... how we interefere with the parents lives! How dare we want more money or more benefits.

All they know, is they lost their built in babysitters until we get our heads straight. lol. I have seen it and heard it all.

By the way Ian, back to your buses, their are walkers. Not all take the buses. I have waited outside for a parent many many times. I have told repeatedly told them not to be late in picking up their kid because I have other obligations and a life, too. How many times does anyone else want to work overtime day by day by day and hour, or 45 minutes. Also, we do not get paid OT.

Parents do not understand at times what they are teaching the kids by simple action. Inconsideration is one. By being consistently late they are teaching rudeness and showing disrespect to both their own kid and their kids's teacher.

They will wonder later why their kid is rude, disrespectful of others' feelings, or constantly late.

What you show your kid, how you talk to you kid * shouting, yelling, or to others infront of them, goes a long way. If you wonder why your kid yells at you, yells at other kids or siblings, step back and take reflection on how you speak to them or others.

Swear once and they will say it later. Almost can take it to the bank.

Our educational system has quirks but all in all is a good system one of the best you will find in the world.

If you have the time and can find this movie I suggest you watch this.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0473389/

Read about this remarkable man and teacher.

http://teachers.net/gazette/JUL03/clark.html

Cass
01-06-2010, 04:10 AM
Sorry about that...I guess I missed that hospital...the only ones I know of in Cuba are the ones that have little medicine, run out of bandages on a regular basis, have maybe a 2-3 day wait to see a Doc. because there aren't enough docs., I guess they are training up the new Dr.s at their World Class Collages that they have there, and they surely are clamoring for the $15.00 / week the Dr.s are paid there... and I really like the time off that they give the mothers....time off from the jobs they don't have...I guess walking to and from the hospital is what helps them live so long...

Again I am sorry for missing the one hospital that the privileged class get to go to....

Liberalism is a Mental Disease and you are suffering greatly from it...you need to go to Cuba and be treated right away...


Cuba has fantastic health care because they pile all of their resources into it.

You'd know that if you'd ever been there which you won't because you guys love to hold a grudge.

Their high standard of health care is also one reason why Cubans have a higher life expectancy than Americans.

It's everything else there that has the problems because so much goes into health, and of course the small issue of the embargo.

One thing I find absolutely pathetic about America compared to Cuba is how this country deals with maternity. In Cuba, when women approach the end of their pregnancy, care is provided in specialized maternity hospitals, to monitor and control the health of the mother, which also implies that of the child. Women get 18 weeks maternity leave at full pay.

In the US, I feel ashamed as a human being to see your women walking around (or should I say sitting around) 8 months and 3 weeks pregnant at work just so they can squeeze the most out of their measly three months maternity leave (which being America is unpaid of course). I would not treat a dog like that. I have even seen American women go into labor at work. That is a pathetic symptom of this feable excuse for a society I find myself currently living in. By implication, the value of motherhood and children to American society is nil. And that's backed up by your awful public education system which is severely under-resourced. This is a nation of immigrants because no-one can afford to be born here, and those that are are left stupid.

Sweden, incidentally, offers 480 days (16 months) maternity leave at 62% pay, which can also be shared with father (who has a dedicated 60 days).

England currently has 39 weeks paid, rising to 52 weeks paid from April 2010 (6 weeks at 90% of full pay and remainder at a flat rate (as of 2009 = £123.06) or 90% of your salary if that is less than the flat rate).

But why the heck should you pay so someone else should have kids eh? We wouldn't want to infringe on your freedom now, would we? Well, ever thought where the next generation of taxpayers and workers comes from, stupid? No, not Mexico. It's called social responsibility.

This is why this country needs Less God and More Government. For the sake of the women and the kids. If the Titanic had been launched from America, the men would have climbed in the lifeboats first, leaving the women and children to drown.

Cass
01-06-2010, 04:27 AM
I only insulted elements of the public education system. The private one here is among the best in the world as are the public schools in the lucky rich neighborhoods.

I do not want the Government to do everything. I just want it to do something. You pay for it after all.

And just because some Governments, like Cuba, do more than others does not mean that these countries are all bad because of it. That was the only point I was trying to make.

You need to learn fact from deception...but your inadequate education in a socialistic country has possibly warped a normally healthy mind into a Liberal one...it is salvageable but you need quality health care (available only in the US) to fix it and with out the proper treatment you will forever be lost in a maze of lies...

Remember...you should never allow you ignorance to override your intellectual capacities..

Ian Gills
01-06-2010, 06:58 AM
Then why will the average Cuban live longer than you Cass?

Is it because of God? Or Government?

Cass
01-06-2010, 07:08 AM
I don't know...but you tell me why people who live here


The Italian island of Sardinia
Okinawa, Japan
Loma Linda, California
Costa Rica’s isolated Nicoya Peninsula
Ikaria, an isolated Greek island
Live longer than people any where else in the world...

I guarantee it has nothing to do with health care....

Scuba_Dave
01-06-2010, 07:18 AM
Then why will the average Cuban live longer than you Cass?

Its against the law to die until you have done your part for the community

Ian Gills
01-06-2010, 07:23 AM
For those guys it is a diet of oily fish.

Not so in Cuba. It's good healthcare provision and a better diet than you have here.

MaintenanceMan
01-06-2010, 07:25 AM
John Stossel's 5 min clip disputing Cuba's "Great" healthcare.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6ZH1ps20WA&feature=PlayList&p=0A716DA62B3FC493&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=5

Cass
01-06-2010, 07:29 AM
Like I said you have believed a lie as far as health care in Cuba goes....

You are hopelessly lost in them...

Ian Gills
01-06-2010, 08:07 AM
So let's all interview Cuban exiles to get an impartial view!

Rubbish!

It's time to wake up, smell the coffee and get over the Cold War.

They tried to allow nuclear bombs to be positioined there which could have been used to attack you.

But that was fifty years ago.

So what is all the fuss about?

You guys used to run about that place and use it as a casino.

Cass
01-06-2010, 08:11 AM
So let's all interview Cuban exiles to get an impartial view!



OK....read here...


http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA557_Cuban_Health_Care.html

Cass
01-06-2010, 08:15 AM
When your done with that one try this one....


http://www.therealcuba.com/

Cass
01-06-2010, 08:23 AM
I hope you enjoy reading about Lovely Cuba....maybe take the family for a short va ca there...

Here is your buddy before he executed a farmer...but what the hey...free health care...best in the world...er...better than in the US...

http://www.therealcuba.com/CastroInterroga.jpg

frenchie
01-06-2010, 11:24 AM
You know very little about the US along with Frenchie

Would you PLEASE stop dragging my name into things, every time SOMEBODY ELSE pisses you off?



...and you wonder why I get paranoid. Hah.



.

Ian Gills
01-06-2010, 04:40 PM
All new regimes cost lives.

Even yours. Especially yours.

Indians. British. And even fellow Americans - lots of them. All perished.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/American_Civil_War_Montage_2.jpg

Runs with bison
01-06-2010, 07:09 PM
John Stossel's 5 min clip disputing Cuba's "Great" healthcare.

No offense to you personally, but John Stossel is an idiot and most of what he reports can be easily debunked. He was entertaining 20-25 years ago when I was young enough not to know better, but his free market theory of everything should be buried in the same hole with Greenspan's. Their reliance on the rectitude of the invisible hand has been disproven convincingly by self-immolation of the unregulated market itself. It was a fitting end to a mantra based more on misplaced faith rather than logic. They discounted the possibility of markets behaving irrationally--a fatally flawed assumption. Same thing happened leading to the Great Depression.

A quote from another conservative that likely would have sided with them, Jefferson Davis, applies: "Died of a Theory." :D

Over the long haul unregulated free markets are disasters, as are completely state controlled economies/markets. But I'm a pragmatist: there is a balance to be had, the trick is in recognizing and using the right tools for each task. When one doesn't work...try another. Libertarianism is anything but pragmatic (see Stossel, Ron Paul, etc.) Or said another way, it is just as pragmatic as communism...which is not very much.

Sadly, the health care bill won't eliminate the horribly wasteful, redundant, parasitic insurance apparatus or provide nearly full coverage. As a result, cost containment isn't going to happen. DINO's Lieberman and Nelson saw to that.

The funny part that really showed how completely wrong the opposition to real reform/public option was this: the same types that claimed the free market would provide the cheapest and best answer crapped their pants at competing with "inefficient government". They admitted that private enterprise couldn't compete. That was game, set, match against the validity of their whole argument. Not to mention that we have the least cost effective healthcare system in the world, providing mediocre outcomes.

My favorite is the fictitious govt. death panels claim. The really funny part is that insurance companies already are "death panels." But the idea of taking that power away from an insurance exec trying to pad his bonus apparently scares the daylights out of some. :rolleyes:

Cookie
01-06-2010, 07:22 PM
HEY FRENCHIE, don't swear at me. Also, you made references about me in other posts, one of which about Cookies state, I didn't get upset with you.

Cookie
01-06-2010, 07:28 PM
I never wondered if you are paranoid. Should I? lol.

frenchie
01-06-2010, 09:57 PM
HEY FRENCHIE, don't swear at me. Also, you made references about me in other posts, one of which about Cookies state, I didn't get upset with you.

In the middle of explaining what you and I were talking about? And how each State administers its own welfare programs, and that's why it might not be the same where you live, as in New York where I live, and the other states I used as examples....

You were part of the topic, how am I not going to mention you? Why would you be upset by any of that? You & where you live were both ON-TOPIC to what was being explained.


I coulda just said "oh, Cookie doesn't know anything about welfare" - and then you'd have the right to get upset. But I didn't. I explained how it's different in each State, and so you and I might both be right, for where we each live.



In contrast - you just dragged me into an argument about Cuba - when did I ever say anything about Cuba?

And you did it, just to insult me. I don't know much about America? I was born here, raised right next door with American TV and American newspapers and American newsmagazines, visiting regularly, always aware that I'm a citizen, always interested. And aside from the first year of my life, I've lived in the States for almost a third of my life!

Unless you want to try to find some actual example of how I don't know about my homeland... I have every right to be upset at you. I wasn't even part of the conversation at that point, and still you're taking cheap shots at me?



And most of all - this isn't the first time you've lumping me in with others, like that. Not the first time I've asked you not to do it.

Cookie
01-07-2010, 04:11 AM
Frenchie,

I am not reading this post above I glanced at it only. You got a problem and I am so glad it is your problem and not mine. Move on Frenchie. Get a life, but in the process you got to learn how your information you are giving out is wrong. Cook.

Cass
01-07-2010, 04:35 AM
War is Hell...but he is still at it...we stopped...and he uses his "Grand Health Care" system to continue his brutal oppression of the Cubans...even if they had money, which he won't allow to happen, they can't buy any health care that they might want...try going there and living with the masses not the elite and come back and report what you expereienced...try going there and supporting an opposition party that trys to have someone else elected...we would never see you again... you would just disappear...he is just a good ol boy I guess....with fair and open elections...I guess with that good health care system of his if any one is put to the firing squad and lives they can doctor them up...


All new regimes cost lives.

Even yours. Especially yours.

Indians. British. And even fellow Americans - lots of them. All perished.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/American_Civil_War_Montage_2.jpg

Ian Gills
01-07-2010, 05:53 AM
...we stopped...

Wow. That was quick. Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran and Yemen are all over.

North Korea too, officially never ended?

Well done!

frenchie
01-07-2010, 09:51 AM
Frenchie,

I am not reading this post above I glanced at it only.

At least it's clear where you stand, then.




You got a problem and I am so glad it is your problem and not mine. Move on Frenchie. Get a life, but in the process you got to learn how your information you are giving out is wrong. Cook.

Got an actual example of any wrong information I've given out? Or just your usual "because I say so"?

Yeah, that's what I thought.



Bye, all. It's been a slice. I'm out.

Rehabber
01-07-2010, 09:58 AM
[QUOTE=


The funny part that really showed how completely wrong the opposition to real reform/public option was this: the same types that claimed the free market would provide the cheapest and best answer crapped their pants at competing with "inefficient government". They admitted that private enterprise couldn't compete. That was game, set, match against the validity of their whole argument. Not to mention that we have the least cost effective healthcare system in the world, providing mediocre outcomes.

:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

What you [I]forgot[I]to mention is that the 'government option' would be supported by taxes from other sources. Of course private enterprise can't compete, but the overall cost per person would be much more costly. Please let me know what the government does well (other than collect taxes and waste money):eek:

Ian Gills
01-07-2010, 12:34 PM
Don't go Frenchie. Everybody enjoys poking fun at the French.

Runs with bison
01-07-2010, 07:55 PM
What you [I]forgot[I]to mention is that the 'government option' would be supported by taxes from other sources. Of course private enterprise can't compete, but the overall cost per person would be much more costly. Please let me know what the government does well (other than collect taxes and waste money):eek:

Actually it would be much cheaper. It would cut out a tremendous amount of administrative cost and profit taking. It would also provide pricing power to the consumer. Essentially unregulated for profit monopolies and/or things like healthcare/pharma where the consumer has no pricing power only result in ever escalating costs...without a corresponding improvement in quality or breadth of coverage. The U.S. system comes in at the bottom of the developed world by such metrics.

As far as what the govt. does better, just about everything that it is suited to doing--e.g. things that private enterprise can't or won't do for all for a reasonable price. The difference is govt. has to provide services for all, vs. cherry picking of the profit motivated enterprises.

But let's turn the question around: how about you defend the lost decade of business in America and explain how they did so much better than govt? Pro-business govt. policies, secrecy (as in not accurately revealing financial status to shareholders), lack of regulation, and easing of regulations have resulted in a decade of NEGATIVE growth. These same pro-business policies turned govt. surpluses into MASSIVE deficits, wiped out our manufacturing base, and took investors to the cleaners.

Supply siding tax policy didn't reduce deficits or sustainably stimulate the economy, it created tremendously destructive financial bubbles. In economic terms it has resulted in tens of trillions of misallocation of capital. And much of that wasted capital wasn't just lost, it has pushed us in the exact wrong direction: toward reduced energy efficiency, reduced healthcare efficiency, and sending our industries chasing dead end roads rather than anticipating future needs. If one were trying to wreck the U.S. economy, one need only follow the Bush/GOP gameplan.

Cass
01-08-2010, 04:57 AM
You are nuts...

the government has and is now regulating health care, and the banking industry...

and it was through those regulations that the problems we now have with them, were created...

the new regulations that will be in this bill, if it passes, will cause the health care industry even more problems...and higher costs to us...government never regulates for the consumer...it is always for private industry and so they can obtain more power, control, and personal wealth....

just like the stimulus package...a big joke on an unknowledgeable public...

You cant take government money (tax dollars out of peoples pockets which equals money removed from the economy) and put it back in the economy with a higher cost (interest) and expect the economy to grow...this is truly smoke and mirrors... kind of like taking money out of 1 pocket and placing it in your other pocket and thinking you have done something wonderfull and are better off...when in reality you have only deceived your self...

You need to get a new brain...

MaintenanceMan
01-08-2010, 06:25 AM
The problem is over-regulation, not too little.

Higher taxes are not the answer.
More regulation is not the answer.
More big government is NOT the answer.

They've talked about creating competition in the market. Presumably by having insurance companies compete with a government plan. More competition is good, but the only reason we need more competition is because of the CURRENT REGULATIONS!!! Open up the state lines and let them compete. It's simple.

This and TORT reform are the first steps in health care reform. That is if you want reform that will actually reduce health care and insurance costs.

Ian Gills
01-08-2010, 09:31 AM
You cant take government money (tax dollars out of peoples pockets which equals money removed from the economy) and put it back in the economy with a higher cost (interest) and expect the economy to grow...this is truly smoke and mirrors... kind of like taking money out of 1 pocket and placing it in your other pocket and thinking you have done something wonderfull and are better off...when in reality you have only deceived your self...

You need to get a new brain...


False economics. Tax and spend does work because people like you often get scared and save (rather than spend). So if you're not going to spend, the Government needs to tax it from you and spend it for you. Or growth really gets hammered and America's manufacturing sector finally dies (long over due). This means that if consumers are not spending, like last year, then Government stiumli are needed and do work.


The problem is over-regulation, not too little.


More Reagan rubbish. The guy was an actor for God's sake. The problem is weak regulation. We need better regulation, and that does not mean more or less.

And if you really want to deregulate, then let's start by removing pesky building permits that just line the pockets of licensed contractors? Or is that regulation somehow OK?

Runs with bison
01-08-2010, 09:39 AM
Cass and MM, I'm laughing at you, not with you. :D You've got no idea what you are talking about.

Tort reform? Hell, it's too damned easy for medical providers to avoid any responsibility already! There is a simple test to determining any potential benefits of tort reform. Add up all of the malpractice premiums for a year. They don't come anywhere close to equalling the annual growth in health care costs. (Takes a while to hunt this sort of info down from reliable/independent sources, but I've done it before.) This is one of the famous conservative red herrings. When someone repeats it I know they are just mouthing talking points from hacks rather than using their brains.

Here is an idea: provide better care and you are less likely to be sued for malpractice. Think about that one for a minute. ;)

As for regulation, it was the utter lack of enforcement and RELAXING of the rules that allowed banks to overleverage. (Greenspan, McCain, Gramm, etc. were all for that.) It was repeal of Depression era Glass Steagall Act that allowed banks to sell all these unregulated CDS swaps. There has been roughly 500 trillion dollars in unregulated derivatives trading around. The risks are not understood even by those creating or trading them, and they should be OUTLAWED if we want to remove a major component of the systemic risk. AIG wouldn't have failed, nor would the major banks, or PMI agencies if these NEW unregulated devices were banned just like they were following the Great Depression.

A lack of transparency and accountability in reporting are other major factors in blowing bubbles. This went hand in hand with bogus risk assessment (such as the assumption that real estate markets always inflate.)

Thank God the country wasn't stupid enough to re-elect the conservatives who created the mess. Those clowns would have bankrupted the states and the federal govt. by now. The notion that they were going to cut federal spending in a Great Recession was so preposterous that I'm still laughing at the idiots for their economic ignorance. Doing what they (and you guys) want would have sent us into a Great Depression. FDR discovered that lesson in 1937 when conservatives tried doing some of that during the Great Depression.

If you want to improve the country's economic competetiveness, you have to stop runaway health care costs. That was obvious to me in the early 90's. Failure to act then has been a disaster so far, but you guys never seem learn from your mistakes. That's a defining characteristic of being conservative I suppose. :D

Runs with bison
01-08-2010, 10:54 AM
More Reagan rubbish. The guy was an actor for God's sake. The problem is weak regulation. We need better regulation, and that does not mean more or less.

I agree with both sentiments. There were things that Reagan did right (including the defense build up), but folks forget Volcker. Carter (of all people) appointed him and he was in place for the Reagan revolution. What Volcker did was slay the heart of the economic problem: stagflation. He's a major critic of what what Greenspan's supply siding. He also doesn't think much of the lack of banking regulation and the bankers that are serving as the regulators.

Time to get back to the basics of making sure people can actually afford the mortgage they apply for. Unlike the conservative spin, the reality is that it wasn't the lowest earners that were the problem, it was top to bottom. Folks with six figure or seven figure incomes seemed to be as inclined to take out too large of loans as those with four or low five figure incomes.


And if you really want to deregulate, then let's start by removing pesky building permits that just line the pockets of licensed contractors? Or is that regulation somehow OK?

Why stop there?

We can get rid of those pesky FDA food inspectors as well. That which doesn't kill us will make us stronger! And we don't need clean water or air. Let's have air and water with some color so that we can see it! Let's eliminate the whole drug safety process. That way companies won't have to do expensive testing then ignore it when putting unsafe drugs on the market--saves a step and money too!

Health care wise let's eliminate the VA and all active military health coverage as well as every other govt. worker. Goodluck finding health care coverage while in a war zone. No more medicare, no more social security. Grandma and Grandpa won't be happy when they find out they can't afford ANY coverage.

But let's get rid of all govt. spending:

We don't need no stinking highways or bridges. (We haven't been paying the taxes needed to support them anyway.) And who needs air traffic control? Security screening? We don't need it either, if I'm not mistaken private screeners let through 100% of the 9/11 terrorists on the day of the attack. So let's give the job back to them or eliminate it altogether.

Police? Folks should take care of themselves! Courts? We don't need those either.

Public libraries and universties? Those are for "elitists" that don't watch enough Fauxnews and might vote against Palin in 2012.

We can go to a mercenary army run by Blackwater and Halliburton. Nothing quite like a "for profit military."

All of the above should make John Stossel very happy. It would be a Libertarian Utopia!

Cass
01-08-2010, 01:49 PM
False economics. Tax and spend does work because people like you often get scared and save (rather than spend). So if you're not going to spend, the Government needs to tax it from you and spend it for you. Or growth really gets hammered and America's manufacturing sector finally dies (long over due). This means that if consumers are not spending, like last year, then Government stiumli are needed and do work..

Ahhhhh...the leopards spots are showing...Just take what ever you want from from the governed little people because you are better than them and know best...and do what you think should be done...typical liberal...I am SOOOO glad you can't vote.....

Tell me...what is the average cost of a Gvmt. created job...




We need better regulation, and that does not mean more or less.

I argee...better regulation...not the bad regulation that caused all the problems...

Cass
01-08-2010, 01:58 PM
.


Time to get back to the basics of making sure people can actually afford the mortgage they apply for. Unlike the conservative spin, the reality is that it wasn't the lowest earners that were the problem, it was top to bottom. Folks with six figure or seven figure incomes seemed to be as inclined to take out too large of loans as those with four or low five figure incomes.

I agree...the Gvmt. set the regulations that allowed it to happen...
personally know people who got loans for homes they couldn't possibly afford and they got $$$ back at closing also...it was sickning...

Ian Gills
01-08-2010, 04:05 PM
Tell me...what is the average cost of a Gvmt. created job...


An American soldier costs about $200,000 to train and then about $90,000 per year after that.

I agree with you Cass, that this is a massive waste, far better spent on domestic needs such as healthcare and perhaps bridges (I try to avoid driving on them in America).

Contractor soldiers cost up to four times that.

Cass
01-09-2010, 05:40 AM
An American soldier costs about $200,000 to train and then about $90,000 per year after that.

I agree with you Cass, that this is a massive waste, far better spent on domestic needs such as healthcare and perhaps bridges (I try to avoid driving on them in America).

Contractor soldiers cost up to four times that.

Then you must...by your own words...be against the stimulus package that is supposed to be creating government jobs...which by default means you are against the taxes that they need for them...