Well sealing question

[DJK555]

First post. Looks like a great source of information. My property has a deep well located in the middle of a large paved driveway turn around. I'm not sure if this was the intended location or if someone extended the driveway after the well was installed. The weel casing is flush with the paved surface and has a loose metal cap. It seems like this is a potential source of contamination. My questions are 1. is there a seal installed in the casing somewhere above the pitless adapter and 2. how can I best ensure that contaminated water does not get into the casing? My concern is general run off from the driveway.
Thanks in advance.
David

[Gary Slusser]

No there is no seal.

About the only way you could hope to do this is to build a pit and use a sealed well cap and cover the pit. The pit should have a drain.

Or extend/raise the casing and build protection around it.

[Peter Griffin]

Yea, probably the best thing to do is to get a rubber Fernco and a piece of pipe to extend the case a bit.

[Gary Slusser]

Yes that's right, a Fernco and PVC. PVC is white'n easier to see at night.

That way the casing will be protected from some drunk in the parking lot doing donuts hitting the extension and damaging the rest of the casing.

BTW, what you call rubber, if you check I think it's a special rubber, maybe even Neoprene; tough stuff and reusable.

[valveman]

You cannot extend the casing if the well is in the middle of the driveway. No matter what color it is, someone will run over it. I would probably cut the casing off a little more. Then install a sealed and vented well cap. Plumb the vent under the driveway and stub it up somewhere where it can safely extend at least 18" above grade. Then elbow the vent pipe downwardly and attach a screen to the end of the vent pipe. I would then install a vault with a sealed door to prevent runoff from entering the well pit area. This still may not be good enough to pass code, as many states require the casing to extend 18" above grade or flood level. If this is the case, it might be possible to ask for a variance but, you would have to get your well seal design approved.

[Gary Slusser]

I was joking about a drunk in a parking lot.... but white is easier to see in the dark than rusty steel casing.

The well is in the middle of a driveway turn around area. Maybe moving the turn around area would be easier than doing anything with the well.

[Peter Griffin]

PVC and a fernco may not meet code either. A few years back they were making us bring any well head that was below grade, above grade and naturally PVC and a fernco were the first things we used. Then a couple years later they decided that that weren't no good and now we have to weld steel casing to the existing. Talk about a PITA. Oh well, it gave me an excuse to buy a portable mig welder :D

[Gary Slusser]

Yeah some guy in a cubical somewhere makes a suggestion and there's another illogical code. If the well were mine, and I was extending my well casing, I'd use the Fernco and PVC. I might paint the highest half of the PVC florescent orange too so it's easier to see in daylight and snow and leave the rest white for after dark. I could stick a sticky reflector or two on both halves too.

[aquaman2000]

I have been drilling water wells for almost 20 years and have never heard of using a rubber coupling to extend well casing. Maybe for a drain pipe but not for a water well. I wouldn't suggest it. A steel coupling, good welding, and steel pipe is way more reliable than a piece of rubber and 2 clamps.

aquaman

[Peter Griffin]

Well, I won't argue with you there. Steel and a weld is a better job indeed. A much more expensive job also.

[aquaman2000]

I guess the question is, "Do you want to spend your money wisely?". I work for a lot of smart people who understand the importance of having their water well fixed properly. With peoples drinking water there should be no other option than the right way.

I have dealt with this same problem many of times with a well being in a driveway. A lot of times the homeowner is so misinformed about their well that they dint have a clue about the importance of good accessibility or the health hazard of a well being struck by a vehicle.The mis alignment of the well can cause surface water contamination and can also prevent the well from being serviced. We have helped people in the past avoid this problem by simply calling us about their well in relation to where they want to put a driveway. Depending on the location of the well, they can simply put the driveway in a different spot or create an island that acts as a barrier.

aquaman

[Porky]

Aquaman2000 said it right. Fernco (Rubber Couplers) are for sewage and not approved for well casing in most states.

If it's for drinking do it safe. Find a qualified, experiences, licensed and hopefully NGWA Certified Well Driller to do the job or at least see the well and make recommendations. Do it right and do it tight, be safe.

Porky

[Gary Slusser]

I'll play devils advocate.

The right way... if you weld an extension and it is hit by some motorized vehicle, the well can be damaged.

If a piece of PVC held on with a buried Fernco is hit it moves and can come apart, preventing any further damage to the well.

And it is easily replaced at minimal cost with nothing but a common screw driver or IIRC a 5/16th" nut driver. Smart money.

And if the welded or Fernco well casing extension is never hit, there will never be a problem so... which is the right way should be based on IF the casing might be hit or not. The vast majority won't be hit but those that are, logically, for smart people, they are much better off done with the Fernco and PVC.

And the idea of a leaking Fernco is wishful thinking by someone not looking at doing it the right way in the event it is hit.

I used to be a production welder for a rail car manufacturer. I did very long, some 16', continuous welds up to 7/8" wide. All welds were inspected and stamped with my number. I never had a failed weld. My guess is that anyone welding an extension on an existing well casing is not going to get a very strong weld simply due to the somewhat questionable prep work they'll do on the rusty and usually uneven cut off end of the casing and the confined space the weld has to be done in that prevents them from looking at the weld in a vertical position as they kneel on the ground with the end of the casing below them in a hole they've dug around the casing. IMO many the weld won't be strong enough to prevent breaking if the extension is hit hard enough to damage a well casing. So again the Fernco is best over all.

The Fernco fits very tight and then is held on with a hose clamp that is tightened. BTW, Ferncos are used for more than sewage lines.

[aquaman2000]

You make the fix sound too easy. Sounds good to a DIYer but not to a well driller. Not such an easy fix at all. You left out the 400.00 dollars in excavation fee, digging up a driveway (in this instance) and paying for the labor to tighten up a hose clamp. No to mention the fact that a fernco coupling can get bumped right off the casing and the well can fill with sand,gravel,etc. I don't see how a rubber coupling can seal around aged steel. When we extend with steel, we use a slip by thread coupling. the outside of the casing is preped, the coupling slips over the casing, the inside of the coupling is welded to the casing, and a threaded pipe is then tightened to the coupling. If a threaded pipe isn't available we simply weld the coupling on the inside and also the pipe is welded to the outside, there is no welding from inderneath. Another advantage to doing it the right way with steel, is being able to go back down the hole with drilling rod in the event a well needs to be deepend. A rubber coupling will not handle drilling rod smacking up on the inside of the pipe.

aquaman

[Peter Griffin]

Well, I'm going to side with Gary on this one also. The only reason that we can't use a fernco anymore is because they are not approved for that use. As far as I know the folks at Fernco are probably not going to spend the 1/2 million or so to get it approved for that limited use either. Having welded several extensions over the years, I can tell you that it is an involved process. You have to stuff the well with something so that the grinding chaff does not go down. The case always needs to be straightened and then chamfered and cleaned up as well as the new piece being fitted. It's a lot of work and costs a lot of money.

[Teets]

In my area, PVC is against code, although you can use a metal compression coupling with thick gaskets inside to join the original casing with a new piece of steel casing. I wonder if it's due to the strength of steel pipe, and if they're worried pvc may crack if it's tightened too tight , or if it's hit, or the ground shifts or something.

[aquaman2000]

Teets,
i have used those couplings in the past and they work great!

aquaman

[Gary Slusser]

Teets, you can't use PVC casing? It must be because you're in CT. It's used elsewhere, IIRC including NJ, MI, WI, and even MN. Ya know, those "we just wanna help ya" states.

[Gary Slusser]

You make the fix sound too easy. Sounds good to a DIYer but not to a well driller.
OP David, he sounds like he's not a driller.


Not such an easy fix at all. You left out the 400.00 dollars in excavation fee, digging up a driveway (in this instance) and paying for the labor to tighten up a hose clamp.
The casing top is at or just an inch+/- below grade... the slip on casing cap is even with grade, so you're going to dig it up with a backhoe!

I'd use my pick and 5' spade shovel and not charge for the 10 minutes to dig down around the casing maybe a foot and out around it about a foot. The hardest part would be the power cable IF some dumbass installer didn't leave a few (5-7) feet of slack as he should have, to go up'n over the extension.

BTW, this is in a driveway turn around area, not the driveway itself.


Not to mention the fact that a fernco coupling can get bumped right off the casing and the well can fill with sand,gravel,etc. I don't see how a rubber coupling can seal around aged steel.
Being that if it's hit it can be bumped off, that saves the casing any damage. That's a good thing but me, I'd get a post hole driller and put in some cement filled 4" to 6" pipe around the steel or PVC extension as protection.

Because we've had this conversation before about a Fernco, I assume you don't know how it seals because you never used one on existing steel casing. And you don't want to so you come up with all the ideas you can think of that will prevent it from working and why it shouldn't be done with a Fernco.

BTW, I don't see how you weld a slip coupler on the casing on the inside of the coupler because the coupling shoulder sits on top the end of the casing and looking down the inside, you can't see the end of the casing. Post a picture of that for us.

And to weld the outside of the coupler to an existing/installed casing, you have to do 'overhead' welding. I'd like to see you do that without digging a hole deep enough for you to lay in or stand up in. I guess that's why the backhoe excavation.... I'm starting to think you haven't done much of this casing extension stuff. :)

[aquaman2000]

David,
i suggest calling a local licensed and certified well driller to help you out. Good luck and hope everything works out.

aquaman

[verma]

In my area, PVC is against code, although you can use a metal compression coupling with thick gaskets inside to join the original casing with a new piece of steel casing. I wonder if it's due to the strength of steel pipe, and if they're worried pvc may crack if it's tightened too tight , or if it's hit, or the ground shifts or something.

Does the coupling wrap around the pipe with horizontal bolts that pull the sleeve tight against the pipe? Or is it a compression style where vertical bolts draw flanges into the sleeve to compress the rubber against the pipe?

[Gary Slusser]

Well lookie what I found there! Hypocrites.

A neoprene coupler VERY similar to a Fernco! but not as adaptable to various sizes of casing as a Fernco, or as long as a Fernco. And possibly not fitting PVC.

At the bottom of the page here;
http://www.merrillmfg.com/product/02-PitlessUnits/Pitless-Connectors/features.html
.

[Peter Griffin]

Chintzy looking thing ain't it? Wouldn't be any good up here cause it only comes 6" and smaller. We don't drill anything that ain't 8" Either way though our code won't allow rubber couplings of any type, nor PVC.

[Gary Slusser]

Yeah yeah, you've told me before but I don't agree with you and I think a Fernco will work better than that short thing. They probably costs less too and use the same hose clamps.

And PVC can't rust, is much easier to find and costs much less than 4" to 8" steel pipe. And as a DIY home owner I can choose to use whatever I want to and suffer any consequences of my choice if I'm wrong. Get over it.

[DJK555]

I didn't think that this question would stir up this level of controversy but I do appreciate all of the comments. Using this information and doing some research on how wells are constructed I now have a better idea of what was done with the well in question. The casing ends at ground level although the highest point in the paved driveway. The six inch casing has a sealed cap. There is another casing of about 10 inches surrounding the well casing that forms a type of pit. The top of this second casing is higher that the well casing and is capped by a loose steel disk. As I am in a semi arid zone this "pit" seams to be very well drained. What it doesn't have is a sealed cap that I'm adding as a temp fix. This set up in probably not code in my area (Okanagan, BC) but is much better than I first thought. I'm going to have it inspected by a local well driller and will probably add some height to the casing to extend it above ground level. The "drive into" issue can be solved by creating a decorative structure in the middle of the turn around, probably with some lighting.

Thanks again for all of the information.

[Peter Griffin]

sounds like a good plan. sorry for all the confusion.