Replace jet with a submersible

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cybor462

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Hi all
No contractor here just a DIY trying to help my daughter. She has a shallow well apparently 67' according to the well tank (written on tank). Her pump is ancient and it is failing. Does not keep prime and runs too much.
She asked me to help. I am installing a Water Boss softener for her and she decided to deal with the well too.
I have never done any well work. Her pump is a foot from the tank and the well is in her basement 2 feet from the tank. It has 2 plastic pipes running into the well. It has a cap with 4 bolts I see is a sealed cap.

I know the check valve is probably causing problems. She had a local company come out and check and they told her it would be $2500 to fix her trouble. She cant afford that so she asked me to help.

We went to Home Depot and asked the plumbing guy what to do. He said to install a submersible pump. He sold us a 10 gpm 230v Flotec.
He sold us wire, fitting to attach the plastic pipe.

We hope to reuse the pipe. I have a number of questions. In my research I see I have to use a pitless adapter. Why is this? Is that to hold the pump? Her well only sticks up less than a foot and it is set in concrete. How do I install it in this situation?

Do we keep the sealed cap? I also see info saying to use inline check valves and others say only use the built in valve? A little help here is needed.

How deep do we set the pump? Should we use a torque adapter?

Can we reuse the plastic feed pipe? I guess we will only use the larger of the two as a main to the well tank correct?

Any help on how to complete this job would be appreciated.

Thanks
 
You do not need the pitless adaptor.
You can re use the pipes. Use one for the pump, the other to snake the wire through
There is a check valve on the pump so don't put in another one
Don't use a flo tek el crappo pump get somthing good like a goulds

Re-use the current well cap
 
Thanks for the help. As I am trying to understand why I am doing what I am doing. Why do I see everyone say with a sub pump you need the pitless adapter? I guessed it allowed the flow of water to run horizontal for those that have outside wells that run the supply underground. I guessed it also basically hangs the pump and supports the weight. Is this right or why is it used?

Secondly should we use a torque adapter I read about?

I read to set pumps 5' from the bottom is that correct?

She already bought the Flotec. I should have guessed if Home D*pot had them they were not the best. She has a HD charge so you bought the stuff there.

Was the sub pump the way to go as the fellow at HD said? May have been easier to replace the jet pump above ground.

With any luck I will walk away from this with some knowledge as I too have a well. Mine is 400' deep so it would be a real chore to repair it if there is trouble.
 
Read the psi rating on the present pipes, I assume they are black or blue PE pipe (if they are (white) sch 40 PVC forget the rest of this paragraph) going down the well. I wouldn't use less than 125 and would suggest 160 psi; they could be 75 psi and I wouldn't hang a submersible pump on that.

No torque arrestor.

Use the sanitary well seal you have but block the hole around the power cable but don't use anything that will contaminate the water. I suggest plastic and all you need is to prevent ants etc. from getting through the hole.

The weight of the pump will be supported by an elbow above the sanitary seal. The pump should be 5-15' (10-15' is best) off the bottom so it doesn't stir up or pump sediment off the bottom of the well.
 
Thanks Gary

The pipe we have is 125 psi and is black.
We are using brass barbed fittings is this ok?
We did get the TA because I read it really should be used. I assume that it will not be a bad thing to use correct?

I have a few other questions. We were sold (2) white wire routers. They attach to the pipe to route the wires. I am not sure where to put them (spacing) along the pipe and should we have more than (2)?

Does the wire just sit in the water? No conduit or anything?

The wire connections to connect the pump wires to the wires that run up the casing to the pressure switch, the paper that came with the pump says to use shrink wrap on the connections. Is that all that seals them? Does not seem to be a good seal to me. Any suggestions for that?

We plan on giving this thing a go on Friday. Your help here is appreciated.

Looking forward to your reply.

Jim
 
No torque arrestor, take it back or chalk it up as part of the cost of your well education. They do more harm than good and can prevent you from pulling the pump the next time you need to.

The 125 psi is border line and if it were mine or I was doing this for a customer, I'd use 160.

The white things are cable guards and you should have one 2-3' above the pump and then every 20' and tape between them every 10'.

You are not very trusting... I suspect a product of the PC anti business consumer activism society we've created over the last 40 years... shrink wrap is the only thing you can use to water proof your cable splices. And you ought to practice a couple times before you do your cable because if they leak, your pump doesn't work and, you may end up having to replace like half or all of your pump cable due to corrosion under the insulation. The splices and some slack cable are folded up and are under tape just below the cable guard.
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Thanks again Gary for all your help. I would not say I am not trusting, I just want to be sure I do it right the first time. I really do not want to do it again right away. Id rather listen to people like yourself as I know the people who do this for a living have seen it all! I appreciate the opportunity to have a chance to be given advice by a pro.

That said.... I will do as you mentioned. We will not use the TA, I will practice the shrinkwrap method before doing the job.

I think I will suggest to my daughter that we need to get heavier walled pipe too.

Wow soon we will see if I can make this happen.

Thanks

PS I ran into a situation yesterday, we are replacing all the pipes, water softener and the well pump. I am doing everything and am leaving the pump to last.
We drained the well tank as it had to be moved. When we had it moved and re piped I had to check the air charge. It was 0 so we attempted to add air. The pressure did not rise but the pump, supply and house became pressurized. I am guessing that this means the well tank bladder is leaking would this be a fair guess?
We finally got the pump primed and air out of the system and she had water again for another day but I was hoping to see if this tank needs replaced? Maybe I did something wrong.

To give a little info, I am not a plumber but have worked in mechanical trades all my life and have done much plumbing work and heating. I can do the work just need some guidance along the way. Yes I make mistakes but overall I am quite handy and consider myself more than a 1st time DIY person.

I was an Aerospace machinist, built race engines for our toy (until last year) gave it up for money reasons, and would take a mile to write everything I have done. So I can do this job just have learned in my 50+ years knowledge is everything so if you do not know something, learn it and ask questions.

That is why I ask.

Thanks
 
cybor462 said:
Thanks Gary

The pipe we have is 125 psi and is black.
We are using brass barbed fittings is this ok?
We did get the TA because I read it really should be used. I assume that it will not be a bad thing to use correct?

At 67' 125 lb will be just fine.
I have always used a torque arrestor and never had one single problem with sticking pumps in over 30 years.
Brass or Stainless steel barb fittings would be the preferred ones to use. Stay away from PVC or nylon fittings.



I have a few other questions. We were sold (2) white wire routers. They attach to the pipe to route the wires. I am not sure where to put them (spacing) along the pipe and should we have more than (2)?

Put one standoff near the pump, just above the torque arrestor and then space them about every 15' or so. The wire gets taped to the pipe about every 5' or so.

Does the wire just sit in the water? No conduit or anything?

Yes it does and it is made to do so.


The wire connections to connect the pump wires to the wires that run up the casing to the pressure switch, the paper that came with the pump says to use shrink wrap on the connections. Is that all that seals them? Does not seem to be a good seal to me. Any suggestions for that?

Properly done, it is a very good seal. Make sure the wires are properly and securely crimped before shrink wrapping. Tug on them.


We plan on giving this thing a go on Friday. Your help here is appreciated.

Do not forget to chlorinate the well before you put the cap back on.
Click to expand...
 
cybor462 said:
That said.... I will do as you mentioned. We will not use the TA, I will practice the shrinkwrap method before doing the job.

I think I will suggest to my daughter that we need to get heavier walled pipe too.

We drained the well tank as it had to be moved. When we had it moved and re piped I had to check the air charge. It was 0 so we attempted to add air. The pressure did not rise but the pump, supply and house became pressurized. I am guessing that this means the well tank bladder is leaking would this be a fair guess?
Click to expand...
A TA is a feel good thing that really doesn't do much unless adjusted perfectly to the diameter of the area it ends up in, which no one can see, and if that area is in a rock bore well, how could anyone even guess the diameter but.. you adjust it to the casing so it will go down and hopefully come up through it some time in the near to very distant future.

Do not use any galvanized anywhere, use brass or SS fittings.

I'd use the 125 psi you already have.

On the fittings going down the well, double oppose the clamps. Meaning 180* between the screws, pointing at each other.

When you heat the tubing to insert the fittings, heat equally inside and outside where the barb will go. You don't need it very warm, out in the sun for 30 minutes is usually enough, and you can use hot water or a torch. Warm it slowly if you use a torch. If the pipe collapses as you push the fitting in, cut that area off back into the 'good' area and do it again. Let the pipe cool before tightening the clamps and sung the clamps up good and tighten them again as you put the pump down the well. You might want to tape them up good so they can't hang up on something.
 
Job WELL done, excuse the pun!

I wanted to update all who helped me by answering questions and gave me tips that saved time and money.

We completed the job yesterday. It was way easier than I expected. I know the tips you guys gave me made it easy.

Everything went WELL, :p again the silliness, but it did work. This was a major job as I replaced the well tank, new water softener, all new piping and the well pump. We opted for the 160 psi pipe, used the TA and used the wire routers and taped in between each of those.

The shrink wrap was easy, (I use it quite often in auto electrical) but this needed to be water tite and so far so good.

We shocked the well and I think they flushed the lines this morning and have tested for bacteria. It takes 48 hours for a result so we will see on that.

I will charge the water softener today as we did not want to get bleach in it. I think they state that would not be a good thing.

I had a couple of drips but a quick hit with the wrench stopped them.

I wanted to note for any others tackling this that we ran into a couple of snags. We purchased much of the fittings and needed hardware from a local hardware. The 1" barbed hose ftgs that attach to the pump and the top T were steel (zinc plated) I asked for brass but they did not have them. I was going to use them as the next step would have been an hour drive round trip to the local home center.
I had an issue with steel (rusting) so I decided not to use them but after close inspection I found that these things were not solid but rolled and joined! Where the joint met they crimped the steel together. I thought that was nuts. Maybe for an air fitting but not for liquid. The threads along that joint had a groove due to the joining process which would certainly leak no matter how much putty or tape you use.

Just a heads up to get brass or bronze for those.

Again thanks to all for your help. I now have a well repair that I can add to my history.

Happy Holidays!

Jim
 
Very well, glad to be of service and glad it all worked out for you. Now you can go into the pump business :D
 
If you want to know you have no bacteria retest for Coliform 7-10 days after the smell of chlorine goes away.

That's because the test within 24-48 hrs will give you a false result because there hasn't been sufficient time for bacteria to show up after the shocking.

Thanks for the feedback but, where's the pictures! You didn't have her'er the kids take pictures!!
 
Heah Gary

Hi Gary
I know this may not be the right place for this but my daughter needs a UV light and I see you have the Sterilite 8 GPM model for $560

Can you send me some info for it? She wants to buy it from you and I see your right here in PA. I guess that is where you decided to park your motorhome!!!:D

Really, do you stock these? I see it says it has a pre filter which is a good thing.

Send me some info on ordering and model info. Would be appreciated.

send to cybor462@comcast.net
 
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