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scotworthy
08-22-2005, 10:21 PM
Greetings all,

My well pump went out this week and I need to have it replaced. It's 280ft deep. I have a quote for a new Gould pump (1.5hp) and controller @ $1200.00 and labor @ $150/hr. Does this sound like it's in the ball park or should I shop around. Any input is appreciated, thanks.

Scott

speedbump
08-23-2005, 08:44 AM
I would think that is in the ballpark Scott. The gallon per minute of the pump has a lot to do with the price. The smaller number the more it costs. As in 5 gallon per minute is much more than a 20 gallon per minute pump.

Our swap out price on a 1hp 20 gallon per minute here in Florida is $1195.00. This price includes the rig labor, submersible pump cable and the pump of coarse. The pumps here are hung anywhere from 21' to 168'.

bob...

scotworthy
08-23-2005, 09:07 AM
Bob, thanks for the reply. I'm looking at a 10gpm pump. Your deal sounds alot more affordable than what I'm seeing here in Washington. My quote so far is looking like:
pump & controller = $1200
Labor $150/hr*5hrs = $750
plus misc fittings, well seal, wire....
I could be looking at $2000 - $3000
Thanks again,

Scott

Gary Slusser
08-23-2005, 09:36 AM
Why such a large pump for only 260-270'? What's your elevation above sea level?

Here in PA someone suggesting pricing the job that way might be shot!! Just joking, but then it depends on how far out in da woods! The price for the pump is good, but $150/hr says your drop pipe must be on galvanized. Here it would be PE tubing or sch 80 PVC so we wouldn't need a derrick truck down to 500'. And we wouldn't replace the cable unless there was a proven need to. My pump puller machine sits on the top of the casing and hauls at 50'/minute from 500' or a max of 625 lbs..

Gary
Quality Water Associates

scotworthy
08-23-2005, 09:55 AM
We're at least 300' above sea level. Yes, the pipe is galvanized, house was built in 1969 so everythings getting old. We may replace the old piping while were at it. Cable is a drop in the bucket and we need to run a ground down to the motor anyway. Whoever did it before only ran three conductor wire down to the motor.

Scott

speedbump
08-23-2005, 10:35 AM
To make you feel better, a Myers 1.5hp 12 gallon per minute lists at just under $1200.00.

I always replace the wire no matter what shape it's in, cheap insurance. What I might question is the 5 hours. With a pump hoist properly equipped it shouldn't take that long. If he replaces the pipe all the way down with new galvanized that would seem more realistic. I stack galvanized pipe up through a hoop at the top of my boom at 42 feet. This way we only have to disassemble every other joint. And we don't lay the pipe down in the grass where the dogs have been doing... well you know. Makes the job go much faster. I guess that's why we don't charge by the hour for small pumps.

bob...

Gary Slusser
08-23-2005, 08:13 PM
The effect of elevation above sea level is to increase the hp but, it is based on 1000' increments.

One way to decrease the cost of your replacing the old galvanized is to go with PE or PVC. There's a PVC system that is very easy to assemble and disassemble without threadign or cementing, it's called Shur-A-Lock by Modern Products Industries.

http://www.shur-a-lock.com/

Gary
Quality Water Associates

scotworthy
08-24-2005, 09:12 AM
Bob and Gary,

Thanks very much for all your input. Today the new pump goes in. If the galvanized pipe looks bad, we'll be replacing it with PE or PVC. Once it all up and running again, I'm going pump water like there's no tomorrow. :)

Scott

Gary Slusser
08-24-2005, 10:03 AM
I suggest replacing the galvanized regardless. It causes iron in the water and clogs up over time.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

mikelectric
07-14-2008, 03:21 PM
To Speedbump Bob, I am new and see all your posts, thus ask with humility for clarification befitting a child: I am confused by the cost arithmetic. Why would a pump which uses more power to pump more water, thus with a bigger number, let's say 100 gpm, be cheaper than a pump with a smaller number, let's say one gpm?

mikelectric
07-14-2008, 03:33 PM
To Scotworthy, The National Electric Code Nomenclature for cable includes only the conductors, not the ground. So if you say you have 3-wire cable it means 3 wires plus a ground cable. Even if you had a total of three wires you could run either 120 volts or 240 volts two pole on two wires and use the third wire as the ground. The only alternative I can think of is if you have three phase power to your pump, in which case, yes, you would need a fourth wire.

Bob NH
07-14-2008, 07:04 PM
A 3-wire motor with a controller requires 3 wires + ground to the motor. A 2-wire motor (available up to 1.5 HP) requires 2 wires + ground.

Old installations didn't require a ground so none was installed. A new pump requires a new cable with ground.

The issue of "smaller gpm costs more" applies only to pumps of the same horsepower. A 5 GPM pump requires less HP per stage than a 20 GPM pump. Therefore, if you have enough stages to require a 1.5 HP motor you have more stages with a 1.5 HP 5 GPM pump. You could have 3 to 4 times the stages of a 1.5 HP 20 GPM pump (and it would deliver a lot more pressure or head).

More stages cost more money so a 1.5 HP 5 GPM pump costs more than a 1.5 HP 20 GPM pump.

That condition applies to pumps with substantially the same housing diameter. If you have large differences in capacity (your 1 GPM to 100 GPM example) it may not always apply.

speedbump
07-15-2008, 06:13 AM
To Speedbump Bob, I am new and see all your posts, thus ask with humility for clarification befitting a child: I am confused by the cost arithmetic. Why would a pump which uses more power to pump more water, thus with a bigger number, let's say 100 gpm, be cheaper than a pump with a smaller number, let's say one gpm?

BobNH pretty well cleared that one up for me.

The 5gpm simply has more impellers than the 20 gpm, thus costing more. Same Motor, just more Impellers.

bob...

Leaky Boot
07-19-2008, 06:17 AM
Greetings all,

My well pump went out this week and I need to have it replaced. It's 280ft deep. I have a quote for a new Gould pump (1.5hp) and controller @ $1200.00 and labor @ $150/hr. Does this sound like it's in the ball park or should I shop around. Any input is appreciated, thanks.

Scott

New 1 hp 10 gpm Goulds, installed on your pipe and cable $995 plus tax. Includes labor. Need new pipe? Sch 80 Eagle Brand PVC, add .70 per ft. Couplings $1 each. Cable for the Goulds 2 wire pump---add another .70 ft. Goulds will have a Franklin Motor. LB

redracer999
05-26-2009, 12:38 PM
I am looking at a 1/2hp 3 wire submersible pump for my 100ft well. My local contractor is wanting $1700 for the job. Another told me they wouldn't do it for less than $1500. They replaced the check valve on the pump a few months ago and it took them no more than 2 hrs. I have priced pumps and they seem to run around $600. From what I understand there is nothing special about my set up. It has the soft black plastic pipe that is in good shape, the wireing is good and it has a crowes foot connection. Am I missing something that a company could charge $500 an hour for labor for this job?

speedbump
05-27-2009, 05:32 AM
First of all, I like two wire motors better than three wire motors. A pump man that uses three wire motors is not educated in the fact that two wire motors outlast three wire motors.

He does seem a little bit high, but if he replaced the check valve, why didn't he just replace the whole pump then instead of double dipping.

We get around $1395.00 to swap out a 1/2hp sub and we include new wire from top to bottom.

valveman
05-27-2009, 05:43 AM
First of all, I like two wire motors better than three wire motors. A pump man that uses three wire motors is not educated in the fact that two wire motors outlast three wire motors.

Hey I like 3 wire motors. I think they have better starting torque in areas with sand in the water. Here we have more problems with 2 wire motors. I think it is a matter of which area you are in, and personal preference.

speedbump
05-27-2009, 06:31 AM
Hey I like 3 wire motors. I think they have better starting torque in areas with sand in the water.

But three wire motors have a biac switch which will reverse the start direction back and forth to try and dislodge the stuck motor/pump. The three wire won't do that.

We don't have enough sandy wells in our area to really give them a good test. We only have a few shoddy drillers that cheap out on casing that usually ends up in a sandy well.

Gary Slusser
05-27-2009, 10:05 AM
I'm sure Bob meant to type, But TWO wire motors have a biac switch

I like 2 wire pumps also, they keep the cost down, 2 wire + ground versus 3 wire + ground cable and the control box cost and a 2 wire reduces the number of parts and potential failure in the control box of a 3 wire pump. And if sand is a problem, buy a pump that is designed to last longer with sand than a regular pump.

speedbump
05-27-2009, 10:24 AM
I'm sure Bob meant to type, But TWO wire motors have a biac switch

Yup, sure did. Thanks Gary for catching that.

Waterwelldude
05-27-2009, 02:56 PM
Three wire motors have a better chance of out lasting two wire, when it comes to voltage surges or short cycling. A voltage surge will blow a capacitor in a three wire, where a two wire will go poof.
A short cycling 3 wire motor will likely blow the capacitor or sometimes a relay, a two wire is a goner.
A three wire may have more parts to burn out or go bad, but the parts are on top of the ground.
A two wire will need to be pulled if it experiences any of these conditions.

We only change the wire if it needs to be changed, nicked or has two or more splices.

If you have a costumer ask "Why did you change my wire?" and you tell them
It's cheep insurance. or While it's out, now would be a good time.
Then anybody else can say "That was waste of money" You will be branded a
bad guy. It's just not a good idea to fix what is not broke.

If there is not a ligament reason to sell someone new wire. We will not waste the costumers money.

Travis

speedbump
05-27-2009, 03:48 PM
Three wire motors have a better chance of out lasting two wire, when it comes to voltage surges or short cycling. A voltage surge will blow a capacitor in a three wire, where a two wire will go poof.
The three wire motor has the start cap in line with the start winding only. The run winding is still just as vulnerable as the two wire's run winding.

A short cycling 3 wire motor will likely blow the capacitor or sometimes a relay, a two wire is a goner.
Again, the run winding is still at risk just like the two wire.

A three wire may have more parts to burn out or go bad, but the parts are on top of the ground.
The two wire has none of these parts, nor does it need them. So there is less to go bad. Which is another reason three wire motors don't last as long, because relays and capacitors go bad all the time, which is hard on the motor when it tries to start.

A two wire will need to be pulled if it experiences any of these conditions.
The statement above covered that one.

It's cheep insurance. or While it's out, now would be a good time.
Then anybody else can say "That was waste of money" You will be branded a
bad guy. It's just not a good idea to fix what is not broke.
I change the wire and don't charge for it. It's part of the service. Since about 75% of the job is labor anyway, why take a chance of a nick (which is very hard to see when it's covered with sulphur, iron and other mineral) causing the pump to fail long before it should have or to be pulled again when new wire would have prevented that.

I agree selling things that aren't broke shouldn't be done in most instances. But in todays world of throw away everything, one has to be careful of what he does not change.

redracer999
05-27-2009, 04:52 PM
We only change the wire if it needs to be changed, nicked or has two or more splices.

If you have a costumer ask "Why did you change my wire?" and you tell them
It's cheep insurance. or While it's out, now would be a good time.
Then anybody else can say "That was waste of money" You will be branded a
bad guy. It's just not a good idea to fix what is not broke.

If there is not a ligament reason to sell someone new wire. We will not waste the costumers money.

Travis

I had a quote today for $3000-5000 for my 1/2hp submersible pump. I asked the guy why so much and he said that he would only do it if he changed out everything because he was giving me a warranty and wanted to be sure he didn't have to go back in. Ok, I can see that, but in reality I am paying for it. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me to replace perfectly good pipe that has only been in the well for 19 years that should last 100. Personally I am willing to take the risk on the pipe to save several thousand dollars.

Waterwelldude
05-27-2009, 05:05 PM
Here anyway, if someone sets a two wire, they have guaranteed a return trip within five years. They don't seem to last that long here.

Example: After our little hurricane recently, there were lots of power lines down and poles. There was a contractor that were changing out transformers. They put a 480 where a 240 was supposed to be. Needless to say there were lots of burnt up stuff. There were 8 wells on this transformer,
out of all the wells 5 were on (there was no pressure so the switch was on)
4 were three wire 1 was a two wire. The two wire was the only one that was hurt. The remaining pumps were 3 wires and just lost the capacitor.

The other three wells, the owners were smart enough to shut down all the power coming to there houses.

Myself, I like three wire.
Not trying to start a debate, just giving my opinion.

I can see what you are saying about the wire being covered with iron or some other type of mineral.
Here, it is not that bad, so its not a issue.


Travis

Waterwelldude
05-27-2009, 06:51 PM
I had a quote today for $3000-5000 for my 1/2hp submersible pump. I asked the guy why so much and he said that he would only do it if he changed out everything because he was giving me a warranty and wanted to be sure he didn't have to go back in. Ok, I can see that, but in reality I am paying for it. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me to replace perfectly good pipe that has only been in the well for 19 years that should last 100. Personally I am willing to take the risk on the pipe to save several thousand dollars.


I do not agree with the guy your quote came from at all.
Just because you change all but the well itself, does not mean you will not have to go back. Anything can happen.
I would find a new well guy. Someone that makes that kind of claim, is not sure of his or her own work, or is not sure what is wrong with the well in the first place.


Travis



I just noticed, this is an old thread!

Gary Slusser
05-27-2009, 07:33 PM
And he's a crook that preys on the uniformed.

speedbump
05-28-2009, 05:52 AM
I agree also. Get another contractor. This guy is trying to send all his kids to school on your dollar.

valveman
05-28-2009, 06:27 AM
I agree with everybody else that you at least need a second opinion or quote. I agree with Travis about the 3 wire motors. "3 wires rule", at least in my area.

speedbump
05-28-2009, 11:32 AM
In case anyone is interested in a very interesting discussion about the three v/s two wire motors. This thread does a lot to explain the difference.

http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14991

Mcloud
02-13-2011, 02:50 PM
Old, 15 y.o well pump died, was replaced,...still not working. Water in line into house found to be frozen, due to loss of natural ground insulation from excavation for new 864 sf garage. Never would have thought of this! So, small trickle is running from faucet, until a thermostatically controlled heated line can be installed into the inlet line, ...ASAP! It sure does get expensive, but is worth it to have quality pieces installed by a qualified professional.