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cej22
11-12-2009, 06:14 PM
I have a circuit controlling 12 cans that has two 3-way and two 4-way switches. I tried replacing one of the 3-way switches with a Pass and Seymour Multilocation Preset Dimmer (D1000MWV). The dimmer operates the lights, but if you turn off the lights using one of the other switches, then it no longer works. What have I done wrong?

jbfan74
11-13-2009, 04:30 AM
You must have wire the dimmer wrong.
How is it wired?

jadnashua
11-13-2009, 07:16 AM
Some of those multi-location dimmer switches require all of the switches to be changed out. You'd need to read the instructions carefully. I have some Lutron dimmers that support up to 8 switches in the network, but there's a master and slave version, and they must be wired a little differently than what you have. But, you can turn the lights on/off and dim from any location. On those, each has three wires...hot/neutral/trigger, where that trigger line is common to all of the switches as are the hot and neutral. Depends on where power comes in as to where the 'master' switch is installed. to take of the power to the light fixtures.

hj
11-13-2009, 07:43 AM
You either have the wrong switch or it is miswired, but without being there AND seeing the wiring diagram for the switch, we cannot tell which.

cej22
11-13-2009, 09:53 AM
Here's how it's wired and here's a pic of the wiring diagram. This wiring makes the switch functional, but not if I turn the lights off using one of the other switches. I tried basically every other wiring using the wires pictured and nothing worked at all.

I don't know why the diagram shows a white wire coming off the switch, since there isn't one.

jadnashua, I think your explanation is the most likely. It looks like I may have to replace the other 3 and 4-way switches with the corresponding remotes if I want the circuit to be dimmable. Do you know if these remotes are typically able to replace 4-way switches? Unfortunately, I can't find the wiring diagram for the remotes online. I might have to call P&S.

jadnashua
11-13-2009, 11:49 AM
Sounds like the instructions cover multiple models, and you don't have the one you need.

As to whether you could use the wiring you have to install others...probably, but you may need to trace things so you could figure out how to install them properly. This can be tough.

the simplest thing is to have one dimmer in the circuit, and the other switches performing only on/off functions. If you want to be able to dim from each location, you need specialized dimmers. Lutron Maestro series can do it (which is what I have), but there are probably others.

cej22
11-13-2009, 03:37 PM
The instructions match the model I have, but it does look as though I'll need to replace the other switches on the circuit with the coordinating remote dimmers in order to get this to work. I'll probably pass on that for now, but thanks for the help.

220/221
11-14-2009, 09:01 AM
Unfortunately, I can't find the wiring diagram for the remotes online

You have the diagram right here (bottom right)

http://www.terrylove.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8883&stc=1&d=1258134475

You will need 3 remote units and it requres some rewiring but it can be done.

In the master dimmer unit, black = constant power, white = neutral, red = switch leg and yellow goes to the remotes.

In each remote unit you need constant power to the black and yellow from the master dimmer.

You could also just use a standard mechanical dimmer in one of the 3 way locations. WAY easier.

cej22
11-14-2009, 09:31 AM
Thanks for the explanation on how to wire the remotes. It makes sense. However, there is no white wire on my switch. Looks like that wire only exists on the low voltage version.

I will likely just add remotes down the road if I decide I really want them. For now I have dimmable tracks and directionals in the room, so I think I can live with the cans not being on a dimmer. The dimmer is going in a bedroom for now.

Thatguy
11-14-2009, 11:32 AM
*********x

jadnashua
11-14-2009, 12:56 PM
It sounds like you have a slave unit, and not the master. Either case, that type requires all switches to be replaced to work properly. The master costs more...

hj
11-14-2009, 02:05 PM
Looking at the diagram, it appears the "master" switch has a micro processor which is why it has a neutral. The slave switches operate as 3-way or 4-way depending on how many you use. The power to the light originates at the master switch, so the wiring may not be appropriate for conventional 3 and 4 way switches, but it depends on the routing, since they could need 2, 3, or 4 wires to get power from the "master" location to the remotes and back again.

Confuserated
02-10-2010, 09:24 PM
I'm hoping I get some accurate input here, as I'm attempting to use this same company's master/remote 3 way dimmers to replace 2-3 way switches in my master bath (5 cans).

From what I can gather, it appears that I have the existing two switches wired as in this schematic:

http://www.homeimprovementweb.com/information/how-to/three-way-switch-option4.htm

Each existing switch has one black (hot), one red (traveler) and one white wire, but darkened (I presume as a substitute for wrapping it with black electrical tape) - and a ground. That is telling me that power goes through the cans, does it not?

I have the same wiring diagram as the OP (included with the kit) - and, like the OP, my dimmers do not have a white wire. The Pass & Seymour Leandro 2 location dimming kit I have (600W) has a Master, and a Remote. The Master has 4 wires: Black, Yellow, Red, and a bare ground. The Remote has 4 wires also: Black, Yellow, Grey, and Bare Ground.

The Master Dimmer works, with the following configuration: I have attached the Black Dimmer wire to Black (hot); the Yellow to Red (traveler?); the Darkened White (also a traveler - hot?) to Red, and the Ground to Ground.

The Remote is wired the following way (Remote wire color mentioned first): Black to Black and Darkened White; Yellow to Red, Grey and Bare Ground to Ground. Configured this way, the Remote does nothing - though, if I disconnect the Darkened White from Black (hot), the Master no longer works either.

Can someone decode what I just wrote here and tell me what I am screwing up - or, even better - take the info I've given on the Leandro Series Master/Remote dimmers I have and combine it with the wiring diagram to which I've linked and tell me what exactly is supposed to be connected to what?

Thanks very much. I'm frustrated, but at least not electrocuted. :rolleyes:

jimbo
02-11-2010, 06:44 AM
In any 3 way or 4 way set up, at any given time, only one of the switches is making the light ON. So the dimmer will not always be in the circuit.

Confuserated
02-11-2010, 07:55 AM
In any 3 way or 4 way set up, at any given time, only one of the switches is making the light ON. So the dimmer will not always be in the circuit.

I understand the concept of it; I am not seeing the logic in wiring this particular Master/Remote Dimmer combination with the wiring in its present configuration.

1) With both existing switches having a white wire that has been colored black, it is logical to assume that I have a configuration which limits my ability to replace both switches with a dimmer (one Master; one Remote), or are the Darkened White and Red wires merely travelers between the switches?

2) If I read the schematic which came with the dimmers correctly, it is possible that I would be capping off the Black (hot) wire @ the 2nd switch location (the new location of the Remote Dimmer), because the Remote simply needs two traveler wires coming from the Master to allow control of the Master Dimmer?

3) Would it make a difference if I attempted to swap the location of the Master and Remote?

What am I missing here?

drick
02-11-2010, 07:52 PM
Confuserated,

The red wire is your remote signaling wire. It will run between the two yellows just as you have it. The black wire coming into the master needs to be a hot leg at 120V. It sounds like it is but you might want to check it. Now here is where your install goes downhill. The red on the master needs to connect with the black wire AT THE LIGHT. The red wire is the on/off power for the light. You can't tie them both together at the black wire on the remote. The black wire on the remote wants a 120V hot leg just like the master did. In your configuration you cut the power to the remote every time you turn off the light. The remote might work to turn the light off in its current configuration, but you'll never be able to turn it back on from the remote because there will be no 120V at the black wire at the remote any more.

Ok, the bad news is to make this work you have to take the light down and you NEED TO KNOW which 3 wire comes from which switch up at the light.
To fix this:
1. Turn off power at the breaker.
2. At the light, take the white wire from the 3 conductor cable from the master and connect it to the black wire for the light. The white wire that goes to the slave should be left unconnected and capped off. We don't need it.
3. At the light, Take the black wire you disconnected from the light in step 1 and connect it to the same wire the black wire in the 3 conductor cable from the master switch is connected to. (You should end up with three black wires connected together, the 120V feed coming into the light and a black wire in each of the two 3 conductor cables.)
4. Optionally you can go back to the slave and disconnect and cap off the white wire.
5. Your done.

-rick

Confuserated
02-11-2010, 10:41 PM
Complicating this is the fact that I have, in fact, 5 recessed cans, each @ 75w (and I would assume that these are daisy chained, but who the hell knows).

So, in other words, Rick: you're saying that this particular 3 way Master/Remote Dimmer Kit has no way of utilizing existing wiring at the switches, and that I need to change connections at the head end of the 5-75 watt recessed cans in the ceiling in order to make this circuit work? I assume this is because power to the 5 cans isn't directly routed through the Remote Dimmer, but instead the Remote Dimmer simply signals the Master regarding its activation? I have heard of Dimmer Kits which will work using existing 3-way wiring - right?

What other 600W Dimmer Kit could be utilized that would work with the existing wiring? If not a fully 3 way controllable Dimmer circuit, I would be willing to settle for a dimmer location on one of the two switches, and the other switch simply turn on and off the circuit (to the preset level of the Dimmer).

Thanks. Your post was very helpful.

drick
02-12-2010, 01:01 PM
So, in other words, Rick: you're saying that this particular 3 way Master/Remote Dimmer Kit has no way of utilizing existing wiring at the switches, and that I need to change connections at the head end of the 5-75 watt recessed cans in the ceiling in order to make this circuit work? I assume this is because power to the 5 cans isn't directly routed through the Remote Dimmer, but instead the Remote Dimmer simply signals the Master regarding its activation?
Yes, there is no way to make this work without locating the can at the start of the string and changing the wiring. (With the exception being you could add a new cable between the two switches and then you would have enough wires to work with). And yes, the remote dimmer is DUMB. All it does is tell the master what needs to be done.



I have heard of Dimmer Kits which will work using existing 3-way wiring - right?

What other 600W Dimmer Kit could be utilized that would work with the existing wiring? If not a fully 3 way controllable Dimmer circuit, I would be willing to settle for a dimmer location on one of the two switches, and the other switch simply turn on and off the circuit (to the preset level of the Dimmer).


If you are willing to settle for dimming control only at one end you don't need a kit. Replace either switch with a standard 3 way dimmer and put the old 3 way switch back into the other location. All the dimming 'kits' (dimmers at both ends) I know of require power at the slave location. Usually the 3 conductor cable is run directly between the two switches and not spliced in the middle as yours is so this is normally not a problem. There is nothing wrong with your installation, it's just unusual.

-rick

Confuserated
02-13-2010, 12:34 AM
Yes, there is no way to make this work without locating the can at the start of the string and changing the wiring. (With the exception being you could add a new cable between the two switches and then you would have enough wires to work with). And yes, the remote dimmer is DUMB. All it does is tell the master what needs to be done.



If you are willing to settle for dimming control only at one end you don't need a kit. Replace either switch with a standard 3 way dimmer and put the old 3 way switch back into the other location. All the dimming 'kits' (dimmers at both ends) I know of require power at the slave location. Usually the 3 conductor cable is run directly between the two switches and not spliced in the middle as yours is so this is normally not a problem. There is nothing wrong with your installation, it's just unusual.

-rick

I actually got this Dimmer Kit to work, without messing with/altering the wiring at the cans. It turns out that I had it wired correctly on my very first attempt, but was too dense to realize that the preset dim level @ the Master was so low as to actually not create a noticeable change when I clicked - once - the Remote Dimmer. I took that to mean that the circuit wasn't working, and off I went on this wild goose chase (lol). All I had to do was to click the Remote Dimmer twice to bring the circuit to full on, and this wouldn't have happened.

I used a meter to determine which box had the hot coming into it (Black lead was hot), and I hooked up the Remote Dimmer's black lead at that location, and twisted it with the blackened white traveler to bring hot to the other box, at which point I connected the Master Dimmer's black lead to it. The Master Red hooked up to the black lead which went to the cans, and the yellow lead connected to the red traveler back to the Remote, which also had its yellow lead connected to that red traveler. Grounds hooked up on both sides (Remote Dimmer's Grey lead was paired up with the Ground lead to Ground), and viola! Done.

Thanks for all the input, guys! Should have trusted my own gut! :D