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Ian Gills
10-30-2009, 04:50 PM
This is a big one and annoys the crap out of me.

Why aren't all firefighters in America salaried professionals like everywhere else in the world?

The amount of times I drive down a street and see people with buckets fund-raising for these guys. It makes me sick.

Step up taxpayers!

What am I missing here?

Cookie
10-30-2009, 04:51 PM
They aint buckets they are boots! :)

Ian Gills
10-30-2009, 04:52 PM
Sorry...boots...

Scuba_Dave
10-30-2009, 05:07 PM
I dunno...maybe ya need to grow up here to understand ;)
Some areas do not need FT firefighters sitting around on their duffs most of the time
But I would think even volunteers should get paid for when they work

Cass
10-30-2009, 05:13 PM
Ian, what part of volunteer don't you understand... actually, you couldn't understand unless you were a firefighter their is an adrenlin rush that pumps through firefighters blood on their way to a fire, and most of them live that way for the first 10 to 15 years. If you don't believe me, find a firefighter and ask him.

Ian Gills
10-30-2009, 05:16 PM
Ian, what part of volunteer don't you understand...

What I don't understand is if there are no volunteers near me, possibly because the station was shut down because nobody is putting money in the boots or because everyone is too tired from doing their day jobs to volunteer, then who comes to put out the fire in my house that then spreads to your house?

Or am I expected to do that myself with the garden hose because you're all afraid of paying a little more in taxes to have a proper fire service?

I think volunteers are great but there's a time and place for them. Like running the cub scout pack. A fire service, like the police and army, needs paid up pros.

Perhaps I can just grab a gun and be a 'volunteer' police officer at the weekend. Heck, I'll be a paramedic for the day too.

Wouldn't want anyone paying taxes for those would we?

Cass
10-30-2009, 05:24 PM
Ian, they closed the station because they saw you didn't put any money in the boot, because you didn't do that they said, we are not going to protect your house. ;)

Ian Gills
10-30-2009, 05:25 PM
That's bad and downright trickery. I'd best put some money in those boots then.

Cookie
10-30-2009, 06:17 PM
They also collect money in those boots for burn victims and Muscular Dystrophy, and other organizations, plus, to keep the station working, better trucks, coffee. :)

Cookie
10-30-2009, 06:28 PM
Seriously, most of the times so many different stations show up, from different locations, it depends on how bad the fire is.

I would keep that garden hose handy though, ;) they know you are from England & a troublemaker . You can check with the plumbers here, but you do know once, your pipes are shot that garden hose is too, lol. If you have a well, you could fill up the hose from there, ;)

Ian Gills
10-30-2009, 07:41 PM
I might keep a bucket of water handy at all times.

If people ask, I'll remind them that I live in America and cannot rely on a publicly-funded fire and rescue service.

I'd keep a bucket of water in the car too, but if that was on fire and the police stopped me I wouldn't be allowed to get out.

Cookie
10-30-2009, 07:53 PM
You got a choice and both are bad. lol.

Ian Gills
10-30-2009, 08:01 PM
Do I stay or do I go?

Cass
10-31-2009, 05:04 AM
Ian...Next time you get pulled over in your car, jump out, tell the cop your house is on fire, throw a bucket of water at him, jump in the car and as your driving away throw a empty boot out the window and wave good bye at him with your gun...:D

Cass
10-31-2009, 06:07 AM
The main reason you don't understand a lot about America is because you did not grow up in a free society...you grew up in a socialist one where the government must give you permission to do things and the government takes care of you to what ever degree they deem satisfactory...here Freedom is supposed to be #1....

That is the crux of it...I heard that under the English health care system if you didn't qualify for something or if the wait was to long to get something done, and you paid out of your own pocket that you would be thrown out of the health care system...beautiful...just what I envision for us if the public option goes through here...

frenchie
10-31-2009, 10:19 AM
The main reason you don't understand a lot about America is because you did not grow up in a free society...you grew up in a socialist one where the government must give you permission to do things and the government takes care of you to what ever degree they deem satisfactory...here Freedom is supposed to be #1....

That is the crux of it...I heard that under the English health care system if you didn't qualify for something or if the wait was to long to get something done, and you paid out of your own pocket that you would be thrown out of the health care system...beautiful...just what I envision for us if the public option goes through here...

You're as bad as he is - worse, even - only in reverse.

Have you ever lived there? Ever even visited?

"I have heard"... says it all, right there. At least he's actually reacting to things that he sees, instead of internet rumors.

...

Englishmen can choose to pay out-of-pocket, or use private insurance, to supplement their NHS coverage. A 3-second google would have told you that:

http://www.consumerrightsexpert.co.uk/PrivateHealthCare.html

http://www.healthinsurance.co.uk/healthinsurance-information/Health-Insurance-and-National-Health-Service-FAQs.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/talking_to_your_doctor/gp_private.shtml

http://www.monetos.co.uk/insurance/health-insurance/private/

They can even get treated at an NHS hospital, with their private insurance covering it:

http://www.privatehealthadvice.co.uk/private-health-nhs-hospitals.html

FloridaOrange
10-31-2009, 12:40 PM
All local fire fighters here are paid. The boot collections are for groups needing donations as Cookie said. My town has been building nice new fire houses, there's one up the road from me not even two years old, maybe I should take a pic.

Typically Volunteer Fighters are for areas which can't afford a paid force and the population is smaller which means less fires. And, as mentioned, the guys do for the adrenaline rush and also because they like to volunteer for community service.

jimbo
10-31-2009, 12:54 PM
No offense, but you don't yet have the big picture about the US.

Small town where I grew up, incorporated in 1635, undoubtedly by some of your disgruntled ancestors who left town!

Since about the time fire was invented, fires were fought by local folks turning out with buckets. Since sometime dating back to the mid 19th century, they have had an officially organized volunteer FD. The equipment was paid for by donations, including some contribution from the town. My father was involved from 1946 until he retired in '72. During those years, the town always paid to purchase hoses, made some other contributions, including probably the land the station is on. Also, the town pays a modest hourly wage to firefighters when they do respond to fight a fire. Most of the operating budget was raised from contributions and fundraisers like bingo. In those early days, some of the equipment was left over from the army.

Today, the town is still quite small, but has grown to about 5000 population. They actually employ 2 full time paid firefighters. The rest of the force is still volunteer. They have an armada of equipment which in a big city would require 100 full time people to man the companies. Who the hell is going to pay for that? So the volunteer concept makes it all work.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/jimbo6679/image0-41.jpg

http://www.firegold.com/tub1.htm This shows the type of fire engined used from the mid 19th century to the early 20th. Couldn't find a pic. of Newbury's Protection One, but TO THIS DAY, these old pumpers are brough out annually at competitions to see which can still pump the farthest.

Ian Gills
10-31-2009, 12:55 PM
Typically Volunteer Fighters are for areas which can't afford a paid force


Who the hell is going to pay for that?

Taxes men. TAXES!

Raise 'em and have a paid professional pull you and your loved ones from the burning embers.

We need the feds involved and quick. I didn't realise some poor Floridians and Californians can't afford a force. Where's my checkbook and who's got the address for the IRS?

Cookie
10-31-2009, 07:35 PM
Send it to my address and I will take care of this for you. ;)
LOL.

frenchie
10-31-2009, 07:39 PM
Taxes men. TAXES!

:rolleyes:

I take it all back, Cass!

You were right, he's a Pinko!!

jimbo
11-01-2009, 05:28 AM
Taxes men. TAXES!

?


There was some guy, named George III, I think, that had the same idea. You see where it got him!!!

Cass
11-01-2009, 05:55 AM
I was waiting for this...thats not how it was when it started...it took years to change it to what you found and that is my point...a gov. run health care system doesn't work because the government is not in health care buisness... and I don't want graft and corruption to run it which is what will happen...that is why Medicare and Medicade is backrupt...How in the world do they think they can run a full blown health care system when they can't run the one they have now....

BTW Ian is a Pinko...:D


You're as bad as he is - worse, even - only in reverse.

Have you ever lived there? Ever even visited?

"I have heard"... says it all, right there. At least he's actually reacting to things that he sees, instead of internet rumors.

...

Englishmen can choose to pay out-of-pocket, or use private insurance, to supplement their NHS coverage. A 3-second google would have told you that:

http://www.consumerrightsexpert.co.uk/PrivateHealthCare.html

http://www.healthinsurance.co.uk/healthinsurance-information/Health-Insurance-and-National-Health-Service-FAQs.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/talking_to_your_doctor/gp_private.shtml

http://www.monetos.co.uk/insurance/health-insurance/private/

They can even get treated at an NHS hospital, with their private insurance covering it:

http://www.privatehealthadvice.co.uk/private-health-nhs-hospitals.html

Cass
11-01-2009, 06:01 AM
"In the United States neither paper currency nor deposits have value as commodities. Intrinsically, a dollar bill is just a piece of paper. Deposits are merely book entries. Coins do have some intrinsic value as metal, but generally far less than their face amount...."


Compare this with the United States Constitution, which says: "No State shall make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debt..." and which also says: "Congress shall have the power to coin money and regulate the value thereof..."

Here is an excelent read.... http://home.absolute.net/xode/nwofraud/Bankruptcy_fraud/Bankfraud1.htm

jimbo
11-01-2009, 06:15 AM
Hang in there! I will send some black helicopters over to help you out!

Cass
11-01-2009, 06:20 AM
Ha Ha Ha ha...I swear...there flying over my house now....see here...


http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2008/11/23/633630696275008040-paranoia.jpg

frenchie
11-01-2009, 09:14 AM
a gov. run health care system doesn't work because the government is not in health care buisness... and I don't want graft and corruption to run it which is what will happen

As a Canadian ex-pat, I disagree with that first statement... Some data points to consider:

Per capita total expenditure on health:
can__3912
usa__6714
uk___3361

total expenditure on health as % of gdp:
can__10.0
usa__15.3
uk___8.4

life expectancy
can__81
usa__78
uk___79

infant mortality rate
can__5
usa__7
uk___5


You have a point, with the second statement, though. We Americans seem to have a problem running government programs efficiently.

I include this because it's so counter-intuitive...

Per capita GOVERNMENT expenditure on health:
can__2754
usa__3074
uk___2939

government expenditure on health as % of total government expenditure:
can__17.9
usa__19.1
uk___16.5

source:
http://apps.who.int/whosis/data/Search.jsp


The weird thing, to me, is: 20 years ago, when I lived in Vancouver, if I wanted to mail a letter to Montreal, it'd take 5-7 days (once it took 10 days!), and not get there at all about 1/4 of the time. If I mailed the same letter from Washington State (had friends there, visited often) it'd take 3 days; and never once did it get lost. A Canuck stamp cost almost twice as much as a US stamp, too.

So, how come our mail is more efficient than theirs, but their health care system is more efficient than ours?

Scuba_Dave
11-01-2009, 10:13 AM
Taxes men. TAXES!

Raise 'em and have a paid professional pull you and your loved ones from the burning embers.

We need the feds involved and quick. I didn't realise some poor Floridians and Californians can't afford a force. Where's my checkbook and who's got the address for the IRS?

Just send the $$ to me
I'll make sure it gets to the right people
And feel free to pay the IRS as much $$ as you want
NO wait....send that to me too.....I'll make sure the needy get it

jimbo
11-01-2009, 10:48 AM
Frenchie, be careful of those figures, as they come from the Democrats without explanation.

What I mean is, infant mortality for the VAST majority of the population is much better than indicated. There is a small minority population of people, imigrants, drug addicts, etc. who skew the statistics. Not that we should not do something to help THOSE people. But the proposed healthcare reform will foist a system NOT NEEDED, at great social cost, on the entire population.

As for the cost of healthcare, that is also skewed. Our health care cost more BECAUSE WE HAVE MORE MONEY. Drug companies spend BILLIONS developing new drugs, and in this country, we pay through the nose for them, BECAUSE WE HAVE THE MONEY....and they are then able to market those drugs throughout the world at much lower costs.

Trust me on this one.....if you take the PROFIT out of drug research, there will be no drug research.


Adding to the costs.....the lawyers. Doctors here must practice defensive medicine....ordering all kinds of expensive and in many cases un-needed tests, because if they don't they will be sued. I have not seen anything in the legislation which addresses tort reform and combatting medicare fraud. Just those two items could save us enough money to provide needed healthcare to all who otherwise don't have it.\

frenchie
11-01-2009, 11:23 AM
thats not how it was when it started...it took years to change it to what you found and that is my point...

I have to ask - do you have a cite for any of that? I've been digging a bit, and asked one of my friends, and that's not what I'm finding / hearing.


Seems they've had private insurance companies, the whole time. Some examples:

http://www.axappphealthcare.co.uk/about/about-axa-ppp-healthcare/our-history

http://www.bupa.com/about/timeline

http://www.wpa.org.uk/about/examine_us.html
flip a few pages - they've been around since 1901


Under the NHS, doctors are / have always been private contractors. AFAIK there's never been anything preventing them from working in the private sector as well as for the NHS.


Ditto, private hospitals - not only does the NHS not do anything against them, it contracts out to them as needed. If/when an NHS hospital is short on space, it rents beds from private hospitals, etc.


I don't live & have never lived in the UK, but this is the picture google & my English friends paint. If you've got info that contradicts it, please share.

frenchie
11-01-2009, 11:57 AM
Frenchie, be careful of those figures, as they come from the Democrats without explanation.

I cited my source: those numbers are from the World Health Organization. Not the democrats. I've never seen those numbers in a democrat's speech, or pamphlet, or anything like that. Those numbers are as much of an indictment against the democrats, as the republicans.

If the dems were interested in actually reforming healthcare for the better, instead of just changing who it is that rips us off, then they might use these numbers... but they don't.


What I mean is, infant mortality for the VAST majority of the population is much better than indicated. There is a small minority population of people, imigrants, drug addicts, etc. who skew the statistics.

So what? The same is true for child mortality in Canuckistan & Ye Olde Merry Englande...


Not that we should not do something to help THOSE people. But the proposed healthcare reform will foist a system NOT NEEDED, at great social cost, on the entire population.

Considering that you and I already pay MORE than the English or Canadians, in healthcare-related GOVERNMENT spending... and that we still have to pay for private insurance on top of that? I disagree. The system needs fixing. Medical costs in the US have been climbing twice as fast as inflation. It can't last, the way it is now.


As for the cost of healthcare, that is also skewed. Our health care cost more BECAUSE WE HAVE MORE MONEY.

Did you miss the "as percent of GDP" numbers, or are you willfully ignoring them? Here they are again:

total expenditure on health as % of gdp:
can__10.0
usa__15.3
uk___8.4

We pay more, as a proportion of our wealth; not just in absolute numbers.


Drug companies spend BILLIONS developing new drugs, and in this country, we pay through the nose for them, BECAUSE WE HAVE THE MONEY....and they are then able to market those drugs throughout the world at much lower costs.

Trust me on this one.....if you take the PROFIT out of drug research, there will be no drug research.


Who said we should take the profit out of pharma research? Even Obama cut a side-deal to avoid that.

I'm not too clear on why we should bear a disproportionate share of the cost, though. The other countries should be chipping in a bit more, you know? We don't make that much more than they do...

gross national income per capita:

can__36280
usa__44070
uk___33650


Adding to the costs.....the lawyers. Doctors here must practice defensive medicine....ordering all kinds of expensive and in many cases un-needed tests, because if they don't they will be sued. I have not seen anything in the legislation which addresses tort reform and combatting medicare fraud. Just those two items could save us enough money to provide needed healthcare to all who otherwise don't have it.\

I agree. But tort reform wouldn't make as big a difference as you might think. Comparing States that have brought in tort reform (before & after, and compared to States that haven't), tort reform would only bring costs down about 5%, at most.

Still, 5% is 5%, and it's straightforward. It's low-hanging fruit. Any 'reform' that doesn't incorporate tort reform, is clearly not a genuine attempt at fixing the system.


Medicare fraud... I agree, is a huge problem. Way bigger than anyone credits. Probably a big part of the reason (the main reason?) why we spend so much government money while getting so little back, compared to other developed countries.

But that one is a much harder nut to crack. You'd need to make some radical changes to the system, and seniors get very nervous when you mess with their medicare. So your opposition, whichever party is not you, gets to play boogieman with the seniors for political points.

I really wish everyone in Washington would grow the hell up.

jimbo
11-01-2009, 03:19 PM
Your raw numbers are accurate. But you have to study the full context. There are lies, damn lies, and then there are statistics!

Bottom line, the door is open for anyone who thinks medical care is better in GB or Canada. Unfortunately the door is also open for a lot of people who KNOW that medical care is better here!!!

frenchie
11-01-2009, 03:47 PM
Door's open? :confused:

Canada actually enforces its immigration laws.

:p


Full context? I've lived in both countries: 30 years there, 12 years here.


Bottom line... this is one thing they do better than us.

And there's no logical or reasonable explanation for it - no reason why they should be better than us at administering healthcare.

None.

Cookie
11-01-2009, 04:13 PM
If you get a big disease you got a much better prognosis in the US.

frenchie
11-02-2009, 05:54 AM
You're talking about the numbers on 5-year survival for cancer...?

Not talking about most of Europe, or England, where I agree the difference starts being significant - but Canada? Canada is basically part of the US, on cancer survival stats.

Overall, you have a 3% better chance of surviving cancer, here, than in Canada. I have a 4% better chance.

There's WAY more difference between different States, or between different Provinces, within the countries, than between the countries.

Take 5-year survival rate for breast cancer: there's 20% difference between the best (BC) and worst (NS) Canadian Provinces; about 25% between the best (HI) and worst (NY) American States... less than 5% between the two countries.

Cookie
11-02-2009, 05:59 AM
Frenchie, trust me, you get cancer, get it here in the states. There are far too many variables of why, to cite.

frenchie
11-02-2009, 06:07 AM
And using 5-year survival is misleading, because we do a lot more screening than Europe - that exaggerates the difference.

Like Jimbo said, there's lies, damned lies, and statistics.

You compare USA 5-year survival rates for prostate cancer, for example: 99% in the US, 78% for the UK. You get Rudy Guiliani saying he's really happy he didn't live in England...

Thing is, a lot of prostate cancers progress slowly, and occur in men over the age of 65 - so they aren't actually life-threatening, in the first place, because you die from a heart attack or something, long before the cancer becomes a real issue.

We do a lot more screening than the UK, and detect those slow-growing cancers. England doesn't do as much screening, the guy dies (of something else) without ever knowing he had it.

The honest number to look at, is cancer mortality - which is identical, for both countries, at 25 per 100k men.

jimbo
11-02-2009, 06:23 AM
Let's talk about infant mortality: because of the availability of medical care during pregnancy, and the advances in prenatal care, a lot of babies who might otherwise be subject to Darwin's principles, actually make it all the way to birth. Naturally, they are still at risk, and some of them won't survive their first year, or whatever time period that infant mortality is counted. In poorer countries, they don't make it to birth and are not counted as infant mortality.

frenchie
11-02-2009, 06:54 AM
I dunno about that logic, Jim. Poorer countries tend to have higher, not lower, infant mortality rates. It's over 154 in Angola, 157 in Liberia, 159 in Sierra Leone... 29 in Mexico, 26 in Indonesia, 57 in India, 42 in North Korea...


Leaving out the poor countries, looking at just the three we've been looking at... here's some relevant indicators, give us an idea of the availablity & quality of prenatal care:

percentage of births attended by skilled personnel (%):
100 for Canada,
100 for the US,
99 for the UK.

newborns with low birth weight(%):
6 for Canada,
8 for the US,
8 for the UK.

maternal mortality rate (per 100k):
7 for Canada,
11 for the US,
8 for the UK.


Gotta go, now, running late...

jimbo
11-02-2009, 09:37 AM
I hope everyone has taken this discussion in the good natured manner in which it was intended. No desire to antagonize anyone. I think we all agree that no system is perfect, and for us at least, we are free to do what we want and go where we want.

frenchie
11-02-2009, 10:16 AM
Me too, Jimbo.

Hope I haven't given the impression, that I'm out to offend anyone.


I just think that, as Americans, we can do better than what we have right now (and of course, better than what the English or the Canucks have).

But we need to look at what's actually there, not what we wish was there or what bought&paidfor politicians tell us is there.

I've spent a lot of time digging, on this, trying to find some actual facts & hard numbers, wading through the lies BOTH sides in Washington spread...

I'm just trying to share some of what I've found.



Bottom line, IMHO: both sides are lying to us.

The system is broken - and this "reform" won't fix it.


.

Ian Gills
11-02-2009, 01:00 PM
Well, I am glad we all agree that volunteer firefighters are not the way to go.

frenchie
11-02-2009, 02:33 PM
Frenchie, trust me, you get cancer, get it here in the states. There are far too many variables of why, to cite.

Sorry, I missed your reply, in-between my two posts, only just saw it. Don't want you to think the next post was my answer, or that I was ignoring it. Just missed it, guess you posted while I was typing.


Not sure what to say to that... except that it depends on the State you live in. I live in New York - we're the bottom of the heap for US survival rates. Close to the bottom for all of North America. Well below some of the Canadian Provinces, like British Columbia for example.

Still better than some other Canadian Provinces - Nova Scotia might as well be part of England.


no offence, Ian.

Cookie
11-02-2009, 04:59 PM
Their are so many differences too many to number, but one of the biggest are the trials. Those trials are more important than one can imagine. We have access first off to drugs newly, on the market, our waiting time on treatment is much much shorter than other countries, research that is done in our country is really Frenchie one of the best if not the best, they are also, associated with universities that far outweigh most others in other countries; grants that are given for research are huge, very generous, and when you put all of this together, not to fail to mention, the US has the best cancer specialists it spells success. Too many think that the doctors order testing in order not to be sued, if you really know anything about cancer, you would see how much of an error this is. Cancer is a multitude of diseases and the constant testing, CT's every 3 months for a period of time, usually 5 years, MRI's once or twice annually,for years; PET/CTs every 3 or 6 months, blood work done routinely, their are very important reasons for this, medical reasons, in order to give the patient the best possible care so they can continue on living.

Treating stage one is so different than treating stage 4. Also, how many times the groups were treated. For instance, I have been diagosed and treated 5 times, spending 5 years, 3 months total out of 11 years on chemo. I am afraid to tell you this, but some other countries would had stopped treating me.

Cancer is a very complexed disease. Their are too many variables to cite here to convince you that the USA is the best place you want to be if you unfortunately, come down with it. New York, Frenchie? You have the best, the very best at your door... those survival rates you cited Frenchie doesn't mean to much, too much is missing to make it worthy. Frenchie, Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center is one of the best in the world.

Cookie
11-02-2009, 05:53 PM
Well, I am glad we all agree that volunteer firefighters are not the way to go.


I actually agree with you Ian. I would pay higher taxes. It is clearly, one of the most important jobs and it is volunteer, even I don't understand it Ian, and I was born here.

Scuba_Dave
11-02-2009, 06:33 PM
Leaving out the poor countries, looking at just the three we've been looking at... here's some relevant indicators, give us an idea of the availablity & quality of prenatal care:

percentage of births attended by skilled personnel (%):
100 for Canada,
100 for the US,
99 for the UK.

newborns with low birth weight(%):
6 for Canada,
8 for the US,
8 for the UK.

maternal mortality rate (per 100k):
7 for Canada,
11 for the US,
8 for the UK.


Gotta go, now, running late...

I'd be curiuos if they break it out by age group
A lot of grandparants having kids......like me

frenchie
11-02-2009, 06:35 PM
Cookie -

I agree with you, completely, that we lead the world in research.

We also have the best quality of care in the world. Nobody can make a reasonable argument otherwise. When the world's richest & most powerful people need an operation, where do they go? USA. People apply to our medical schools, from all over the world... with good reason.

Hell, my dad came to the Mayo (in a last-ditch attempt), when he was dying of myelodysplastic syndrome.

We have the best medical care in the world - which is why it's so frustrating, that we have such a 2nd-rate delivery system.

We have the best medical care in the world, and we spend way more than anyone else... why don't we have the best outcomes?

We should be head of the pack, in all those statistics I gave earlier: longevity, infant mortality rate, maternal mortality rate, cancer mortality rate... yet Canada manages to beat us, on all of those, year after year after year... while spending 2/3rds what we do per capita. HUH???




The fact that my State has the very best research & treatment facility, just proves it: how come we have the worst 5-year survival rate, and one of the worst cancer mortality rates, in the country?

frenchie
11-02-2009, 06:40 PM
I'd be curiuos if they break it out by age group
A lot of grandparants having kids......like me

No, they don't. I can look at older stats, if you want, might tell us something - it's a relatively recent trend, right?

In the meantime... congratulations!


edit: the database only goes back to 1990, when the infant mortality rates were 7 for Canada, 10 for us. Nowadays they're at 5, we're at 7... looks like the relationship is pretty constant.

lemme dig around, see what else I can find, in other places...




2nd edit: the average age of mother at birth is 27.6 here, 29.7 in Canada, 28.6 in the UK.



3rd edit - I thought that might just a reflection of higher teen pregnancy rates, or something, maybe...? So I looked some more... Using numbers from the CDC and from Statistics Canada, and 10 minutes on Xcel...


Births to women over the age of 35 represented 17.05 % of Canadian births, 14.33 % of American births.

Broken down:

USA CAN

35-40 15.08% 11.69%
40-45 2.81% 2.47%
45-50 0.14% 0.15%
50 & up 0.01% 0.01%

Cookie
11-02-2009, 06:55 PM
Frenchie, you got this all wrong.
The US has the best survival rates. Their is so much more to it than what you are reading and digging up, trust me on this Frenchie. You know plumbing, Frenchie, I know cancer.

Cookie
11-02-2009, 07:20 PM
This is a big one and annoys the crap out of me.

Why aren't all firefighters in America salaried professionals like everywhere else in the world?

The amount of times I drive down a street and see people with buckets fund-raising for these guys. It makes me sick.

Step up taxpayers!

What am I missing here?

I got an idea, reduce the pay of the policemen and all politicians, and pay the firemen warmly. ( no pun intended, lol.)

frenchie
11-03-2009, 06:27 AM
Frenchie, you got this all wrong.
The US has the best survival rates. Their is so much more to it than what you are reading and digging up, trust me on this Frenchie. You know plumbing, Frenchie, I know cancer.

Actually, I don't know that much about plumbing...

:D



...point taken. I get a little obsessive sometimes. :o

Peanut9199
11-03-2009, 01:39 PM
Seriously, most of the times so many different stations show up, from different locations, it depends on how bad the fire is.

I didn't know this until i was watching a movie depending on how many firehouses are called tells you what "Alarm" it is.
So if 4 stations are called to responed to a fire it would be a "4 Alarm" fire.
I though that was interesting.




Drug companies spend BILLIONS developing new drugs, and in this country, we pay through the nose for them, BECAUSE WE HAVE THE MONEY....and they are then able to market those drugs throughout the world at much lower costs.

Also in the US each of State's agencies purchases it's own drugs, in Canada we buy in bulk and save on the cost of drugs (kinda like Costco).

Scuba_Dave
11-03-2009, 03:21 PM
Look to the Homeland Ian :D

http://www.voluntaryworker.co.uk/volunteer-with-your-local-fire-service.html

Cookie
11-03-2009, 03:52 PM
Actually, I don't know that much about plumbing...

:D



...point taken. I get a little obsessive sometimes. :o


You are not obsessive Frenchie, I just think facts should be right no matter if they are plumbing, remodeling, toilets, health, water heaters, that is all.

frenchie
11-03-2009, 04:53 PM
I thought you were basically trying to tell me, not to lose the forest for the trees. That I'd lost my perspective, so obsessed on the weaknesses of our system, I was losing sight of the good things about it.

...now I'm confused.



...You were saying I posted wrong numbers?

...Which ones?

or was it something else...?


?

Cookie
11-03-2009, 05:54 PM
Oh, Frenchie I just paid you a compliment, in saying you were not obsessive.

I don't want to catch any crap here over this stuff so, I watch what I say and still get it, lol.

Frenchie, to me it isn't worth arguing over, it suffices for me to say, that regarding cancer, which I do know about Frenchie, which I honestly wish I knew more about plumbing than it, that your chances of survival are much better in the US. I am speaking about all cancers, too. Money wise, it is the best bet too. We got so much free care for cancer, Saint Judes is one of them Frenchie.

All I was basically saying are those facts.

So, please simmer down, Frenchie.

frenchie
11-03-2009, 06:04 PM
LOL... sounds like I had it right the first time.

Thanks for talking me down, Cookie.:)

Cookie
11-03-2009, 06:05 PM
Honestly, Frenchie, I am not doing a thing, here.

Cookie
11-03-2009, 06:10 PM
Well, I got to do an evaluation on a little boy with spina bifida, has a vp shunt, is ventilator dependent, is fed through a g-tube, and is on oxygen therapy. So, I got my hot ovaltine next to me and will be working on this for the rest of the night.

Have a good night Frenchie.

cpio
11-06-2009, 05:24 PM
Dude,

I was one of those volunteer firefighters, and we did it for the township. The town
itself only had about 175 people, and the surrounding area was nothing but farmers.
You volunteered because you were related to most of them - a lot of inbreeding
you know. So if someone's house was burning, it was at leas a third cousin.

Redwood
12-05-2009, 06:07 PM
Ian, what part of volunteer don't you understand... actually, you couldn't understand unless you were a firefighter their is an adrenlin rush that pumps through firefighters blood on their way to a fire, and most of them live that way for the first 10 to 15 years. If you don't believe me, find a firefighter and ask him.

As a volunteer firefighter who served 26 years I can attest to that...

After the first 10 or 15 you become wiser and stop to empty your bladder before running out in the middle of the night when its 10-degrees F outside...

By the way Ian the Fill The Boot fundraiser was started by paid fire fighters of the International Association Of Fire Fighters AFL-CIO, CLC and is an annual fundraiser with the proceeds going to the Muscular Dystrophy Association.


The International Association of Fire Fighters (IAFF) is the largest national sponsor of the Muscular Dystrophy Association (MDA). More than 280,000 members of the IAFF in the United States and Canada are pledged to saving lives, both as fire fighters and paramedics and as the strongest campaigners for the worldwide research efforts of MDA to eradicate 40 neuromuscular diseases. The contributions of the fire fighters also go towards MDA’s summer camps for children, professional and public health education, and other programs.

As the greatest contributor to MDA, fire fighters are everywhere in the efforts of MDA to raise money. The IAFF is the biggest sponsor of MDA’s Labor Day Telethon and it contributed a record breaking $23.5 million in year 2006 as a consequence of the overwhelming enthusiasm and contribution of tens and thousands of fire fighters and paramedics across the US and Canada. IAFF members have donated nearly $275 million to MDA since 1954. http://www.iaff.org/MDA/history.asp

Since all Fire Fighters are brothers whether paid or volunteer you may find it interesting to note that Volunteer Fire Fighters also collect for MDA and contribute.

I don't know what your problem with volunteer fire fighters could be Ian...
In many smaller communities it is a way of life for many who serve. They go to regular jobs and support their families in many small towns across America where the call volume is to low to justify a paid staff saving the town many $$$ in taxes and at a moments notice they leave their job or families to run out and fight a fire. Many of them spend several nights a week or, weekends attending training classes to maintain a high level of proficiency all time donated by them. The proficiency is no joke and in many cases better service is provided to the community. On more than one occasion I can cite instances where the fire was located a long run from the station and probably would have been a 5-8 minute run for the first truck to arrive but a volunteer living in the area on arrival found a room in the basement well involved with fire and attacked it with a fire extinguisher he carried in his trunk knocking the fire down so that only a single small hose line was needed for mopping up when the first truck arrived.

In any case you clearly are picking the wrong people to have a beef with.

Ian Gills
12-06-2009, 02:06 PM
I don't know what your problem with volunteer fire fighters could be Ian...

I think people that provide such a valuable service should be paid a salary from taxpayers' pockets.

Yes, you could still have volunteers, but they should work alongside salaried firemen.

Volunteer fire stations having to close because of a lack of resources is non-sensical.

It's a bit like having the churches provide healthcare....which I know they already do as long as the State does not go passing a gay marriage law and then they just up sticks.

hj
12-09-2009, 05:35 PM
NOt every city has a bundle of cash lying around to pay firefighters to sit in the station 24 hours a day playing checkers and waiting for something to start burning. AND, those guys like playing fireman. I once found a small ball of glowing embers in a tree, while walking my dog. When I got back home I called the police department, and told them to send someone over there with a small fire extinguisher. This was a 10:00 p.m. The next thing I know there are two fire trucks outside, and about 40 volunteers with their blue lights flashing. One guy takes a can of water to throw on the fire and the others line up to sign in for their "showup" pay. Everyone on the street walked down to see what was happening. My wife asked me if I was going to go out and tell them I was the one who called. I told her, "NO way was I going to do that."

Ian Gills
12-09-2009, 05:40 PM
Not every city has a bundle of cash lying around to pay firefighters to sit in the station 24 hours a day playing checkers and waiting for something to start burning.

Then we need to get the feds to pay for it.

Enough of all these silly city and State governments trying to provide essential services.

Centralize.

Washington DC knows best. I should know. I live there.

Big Government is Best.

Save America's kids....cap and trade before it's too late.

FloridaOrange
12-09-2009, 05:43 PM
Then we need to get the feds to pay for it.

Enough of all these silly city and State governments trying to provide essential services.

Centralize.

Washington DC knows best. I should know. I live there.

Yeah...DC is a great example of how things should be. :rolleyes: Just be happy they haven't voted in another crackhead.

Ian Gills
12-09-2009, 05:45 PM
The only difference between DC and Florida, that I could detect, was the beach, the sea and the dodgy plumbing.

Everything else was the same. And the price we pay for that is multiple sets of local Governments all making exactly the same decisions.

One Government for all Americans. The time has come.

DC knows what makes you happy.

FloridaOrange
12-09-2009, 05:56 PM
The only difference between DC and Florida, that I could detect, was the beach, the sea and the dodgy plumbing.

Everything else was the same. And the price we pay for that is multiple sets of local Governments all making exactly the same decisions.

One Government for all Americans. The time has come.

DC knows what makes you happy.


How about that our taxes are probably 20% of what yours are (my property taxes were about $1500 last year. We also don't have state income taxes. And the icing on the cake is that I can legally have my gun loaded in the center console of the truck (the wife's anyway, my truck has no console) and the RIGHT to shoot someone in defense of myself, my family and even my property with immunity from civil and judicial prosecution (or persecution if you like).

From Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Doctrine_in_the_United_States

A Castle Doctrine (also known as a Castle Law or a Defense of Habitation Law) is an American legal doctrine that arose from English Common Law[1] that designates one's place of residence (or, in some states, any place legally occupied, such as one's car or place of work) as a place in which one enjoys protection from illegal trespassing and violent attack. It then goes on to give a person the legal right to use deadly force to defend that place (his/her "castle"), and/or any other innocent persons legally inside it, from violent attack or an intrusion which may lead to violent attack. In a legal context, therefore, use of deadly force which actually results in death may be defended as justifiable homicide under the Castle Doctrine.

Ian Gills
12-09-2009, 06:08 PM
How about that our taxes are probably 20% of what yours are (my property taxes were about $1500 last year. We also don't have state income taxes. And the icing on the cake is that I can legally have my gun loaded in the center console of the truck (the wife's anyway, my truck has no console) and the RIGHT to shoot someone in defense of myself, my family and even my property with immunity from civil and judicial prosecution (or persecution if you like).


Yes but DC knows that this sort of behavior is not good for you.

My property tax is over $4000 a year and is spent on things that help my good neighbors out and to the benefit of society. If we can eliminate differences like this in America then we will all be happier.


Mostly, we need to get rid of that dreadful PVC plumbing in Key West. I blame the plumbing designers.

Scuba_Dave
12-09-2009, 06:28 PM
You must be in the rich part of MD
My mansion is only about $3k a year in Taxachussetts

hj
12-10-2009, 06:05 AM
You Limeys, and relatives, think taxes are the solution to everything. I guess you forgot how we treated King George, and his tea, when he tried to raise our taxes. If you want more taxes, stay tuned, because King Obama is going to have to make you VERY happy one of these days when his money printing presses run out of green ink. And that is not evironmentally green, but the money color green.

hj
12-10-2009, 06:10 AM
Quote; Canada actually enforces its immigration laws.

WHO is trying to get into Canada? NOT millions of Americas, and they do not have Mexico as a neighbor, although we might be able to work out a land swap to cure that problem.

hj
12-10-2009, 06:14 AM
quote; IMHO: both sides are lying to us.

YOU are kidding me? Politicians lying? Impossible!, BUt then, have you ever tried to put the words politician, truth, honesty, and upstanding in the same sentence and have it make sense, unless you also use a lot of "not"s.

Ian Gills
12-10-2009, 02:25 PM
I can't wait until Obama raises taxes and gives you a good dose of social justice.

And all this has the popular support of the people.

You deserve a second stimulus!

We are entitled to cap and trade!

Government healthcare for all.

I want some handouts!