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Ian Gills
10-28-2009, 10:54 AM
I don't understand when you can carry one, what you can carry and how you should do it.

I always figured it would need to be kept locked up at home and not allowed to be taken out, like in England for those farmers that are allowed to own one and use it on their own private land.

But sometimes here I see people in public with them plonked on the bar. And apparently to hide them would be a no-no.

But othertimes they are concealed in a holster.

Sometimes automatics, sometimes not.

It does not make sense.

Can I carry a gun in my hand and walk the street? Or should I tuck it away in a jacket?

A picture speaks a thousand words, so here's a good one explaining my dilemma..

A man at an Obama speech in America...http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/POLITICS/08/17/obama.protest.rifle/art.obama.gun.pool.jpg...apparently legal.

FloridaOrange
10-28-2009, 11:50 AM
State laws vary widely. If you really want to carry you should go to an authorized dealer/instructor.

Luckily for me, in Florida, there is no registration and I can keep it concealed in my car without reprocussions. I can also defend myself and property when I feel the need, other states or cities you have to wait until your life is in danger, that is if it's even legal to have a handgun, registered or not.

Ian Gills
10-28-2009, 12:17 PM
I am beginning to dislike all these State laws. Is there a movement I can join to abolish the States and have the Feds take over everything?

FloridaOrange
10-28-2009, 12:22 PM
I am beginning to dislike all these State laws. Is there a movement I can join to abolish the States and have the Feds take over everything?

That would really be a screwed up place. I would suggest moving to Alaska or Texas and joining their movements to become autonomous (sp) countries.

FloridaOrange
10-28-2009, 12:25 PM
To answer your original question:
http://www.mcsm.org/mdlaw.html

and for giggles...:
Click Here (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=maryland+gun+laws)

Ian Gills
10-28-2009, 12:58 PM
Thanks. It must be difficult moving States.

I can envisage situations where:

a) you can't take your handgun with you
b) your wife falls below the age of consent
c) the police in the new place aren't the same as in the old place
d)...and...the next in my series of what I do not understand about America...the liquor laws change!

Cass
10-28-2009, 04:03 PM
Sorry old chap but I think...not sure ...that since you are not an American (or are you :cool:) that you can't get a Conceiled Carry Permit...

If you would like to see first hand what it is like on the inside of American jails then by all means just put one in your hand and wave to people with it as you walk down a side walk...with a nice smile of course...:D

Scuba_Dave
10-28-2009, 06:02 PM
I am beginning to dislike all these State laws. Is there a movement I can join to abolish the States and have the Feds take over everything?

Yes...its called....move to England :p
Some driving laws change...plus lots of other things
You need a new drivers license from the new state

jimbo
10-28-2009, 07:12 PM
Thanks. It must be difficult moving States.

I can envisage situations where:

a) you can't take your handgun with you
b) your wife falls below the age of consent
c) the police in the new place aren't the same as in the old place
d)...and...the next in my series of what I do not understand about America...the liquor laws change!

Yes, all of the above. I know when I was in MO for a few months, you couldn't buy liquor on Sunday, I think, and when I was growing up in MA, NO store but a ********, and what they called the "bread and milk store" could be open on Sunday. And to this day, you cannot pump your own gas.


eidt: I have no idea why my word for a drug store got asterisked out above!

But as our founding fathers knew only too well, the central government doesn't do anything well. There are things like national defense which it MUST do, but beyond that, the more things the fed tries to do, the more screwed up it gets. We are pretty much knee deep in that mode right now, and Jefferson would suggest that it may be time for a little revolution to set things straight.

FloridaOrange
10-29-2009, 04:36 AM
And to this day, you cannot pump your own gas.


You can't pump your own gas in NJ either. Funny thing is, gas is still cheaper in NJ than NY.

That was a good job for high schoolers though. My brother did that while in school and made some pretty good money (for high school).

Ian Gills
10-29-2009, 06:03 AM
I think it's time for a Federal revolution. I'll talk to my DC friends who work for the Government and see if we can extend their reach.

I hate pumping my own gas, so I think everyone should have to wait for the attendant, whether in Alaska or Florida.

jimbo
10-29-2009, 06:29 AM
. I'll talk to my DC friends who work for the Government .

The people in DC who work for the government are part of the problem....they don't want any solution@!

Scuba_Dave
10-29-2009, 06:34 AM
I forget where I was (travelling) but you weren't allowed to pump your own gas
I was on my MC, no-one puts gas in except me
Poor guy didn't know what to do as I was already pumping the gas
This was back when the recovery systems were not too good & it was PIA to get the pump to put gas in a MC tank

Ian Gills
10-29-2009, 11:38 AM
Poor guy didn't know what to do as I was already pumping the gas


As per my original post, why didn't he shoot you?

Cass
10-29-2009, 01:47 PM
Ian your watching to many John Wayne movies....

Ian Gills
10-29-2009, 03:06 PM
Nope, but I did watch the A-Team last night and it was brilliant.

I sat two feet away from the TV to watch that every week when I was a kid.

There's a lot of firepower in that. And understanding the gun laws in America I now know why.

The only thing I still don't get is why do you most often need a permit to carry a concealed firearm? What's so special?

Surely a gun is like a peanis. It's more worrying when you are showing it off than hiding it.

Scuba_Dave
10-29-2009, 03:55 PM
As per my original post, why didn't he shoot you?

He didn't have a gun
and most people won't mess with someone on a MC in leather who looks on the "rough" side

Going to College in Boston I had to pay for a course, asked where to pay
Go up the stairs it will be right in front of you
Up the stairs I go, open the door there are bank like windows & people paying
One person vacates a window, I step forward in full leather, cut off gloves & ask if this is where I pay
Girl looks at me a little confused so I ask again & show her the tuition bill
She says Yes so I pay
I turn around to leave & see a long line stretching down the hallway & around the corner
Long line of students waiting to pay their bill....not a single person said a word
Most looked away....back down the stairs I go.......:D

Ian Gills
10-29-2009, 04:28 PM
on a MC

Oh, MC is a motorcyle.

I thought you were referring to an AMC!

Dave and his AMC Pacer...
http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/features/2005/crap-cars/03-large/1975-amc-pacer.jpg

Its great design feature was to have a passenger door that was much longer than the driver's door so your children could safely and easily climb into the back. Great idea. But then they had the even greater idea of selling it in England with right-hand drive. Unfortunately they couldn't swap the doors over too, forcing your children to climb aboard on the same side as the traffic.

Gary Swart
10-29-2009, 10:00 PM
Ian, you are absolutely right. It is virtually impossible for the average citizen to understand all of the laws in all 50 states and here's why. Each state has the right to enact laws that affect just the people within that state. These laws can cover virtually everything. Moreover, some state give counties within the state power to enact more stringent laws that the state statues. A few quick examples. Some states permit counties to determine "wet or dry". Some states permit counties to determine what may be sold on Sundays. Concealed weapons laws vary from state to state. Most permit long guns to be carried, but most have exceptions as to where any weapons may be carried. The list goes on forever, so yes, it is confusing even to those of us who are lifelong citizens when we travel to other places, and no, it really doesn't make a lot of sense. You just have to understand, and if you order a beer on Sunday and are refused because the county you are in is dry, you'll know why.

Runs with bison
10-29-2009, 10:26 PM
The people in DC who work for the government are part of the problem....they don't want any solution@!

Must be talking about the GOP. :D (The party of "no" as in no solutions, no plans, and no idea how to run a govt. or balance a checkbook.)

BTW, Missouri has repealed most of its old "Blue Laws." I'm not sure when they did it, but they are much different now than what they were 20 years ago. You can buy beer on Sunday now. And you can buy tools, hardware, etc. then too. (No more closing off sections of the store which was completely absurd.)

Texas and many Southern states have dry counties. Some cities have dry precincts. In the South the way this worked is that the "God fearing" Southern Baptists didn't want liquor stores where they lived. But they did want nudie bars and liquor stores accessible, and to be able to buy alcohol with dinner in restaurants or private clubs nearby. So the solution was to push the liquor stores to the county line...or in another section of town (precinct)...typically one with a darker average complexion. Didn't see many nudie bars until I moved South...then it seemed like one couldn't swing a cat without hitting one.

The Blue Laws were/are a sort of statewide religious law enforcement system--milder than what the Saudi's do, but the same principle. They've weakened considerably over the years.

The gun laws of the U.S. are a byzantine mess (from my perspective as gun owner who will defend life and property and has been through the Texas concealed carry permitting.) Good luck trying not to run afoul of them if you carry while on vacation. Keeping track of states with reciprocity for concealed carry and all that--not to mention the restrictions within each is a pain. Waiting periods and permits, you can't carry here, can carry there, only if on a "bona fide" trip, etc. Common sense says to conceal...law says otherwise...but can make you susceptible to brandishing charges (or theft.)

Can't say that I'm terribly impressed with the oddball state laws, whether in NJ, CA, TX, GA, AK, AL, MS, LA, MO, KS, WA, etc.

FloridaOrange
10-30-2009, 04:38 AM
Must be talking about the GOP. :D (The party of "no" as in no solutions, no plans, and no idea how to run a govt. or balance a checkbook.)

I don't think any of them are grounded in reality when it concerns budget issues. "No money? That's OK, we'll just vote to raise our own credit. What, we're voting on whether we get a raise or not........".

Cass
10-30-2009, 05:06 AM
Must be talking about the GOP. :D (The party of "no" as in no solutions, no plans, and no idea how to run a govt. or balance a checkbook.)



WHAT!!!

And you think the Dems do?...they just turn on the printing presses and crank out as much $$$ as they need...we will soon be needing pick up trucks to haul the $$$ to the store in order to buy a loaf of bread....you need to put on your glasses

Runs with bison
10-30-2009, 09:06 AM
WHAT!!!

And you think the Dems do?...they just turn on the printing presses and crank out as much $$$ as they need...we will soon be needing pick up trucks to haul the $$$ to the store in order to buy a loaf of bread....you need to put on your glasses

I've been watching this fiasco unfold for a decade and am all too aware of the source of the problem. It's not the Democrats other than in "me too" fashion (see Blue Dogs.) Nope, they are stuck with the mess that the Dubya and crew have made. The Dems are getting the blame for this massive deficit...the one that GOP policies created. (FDR faced the same thing during the Great Depression.)

If you actually do an analysis of the deficit it is the result of Dubya/GOP untax & spend like a drunken sailor policies. Folks like me saw this train wreck coming back in 2000/2001...because we can competently operate a calculator. (And I'm not even a Gore supporter.) Squandering another 8 years of Soc. Security "surplus" by undertaxing was complete idiocy. And what did the undertaxing accomplish in the way of stimulus? The lowest economic growth rate since the Great Depression and a giant bubble with perverse incentives to investors and companies that have ended up destroying wealth rather than creating it. Combine that with deregulation/no enforcement and here we are.

Dems and Republicans unfortunately cater to the free lunch inclinations of the nation at large. Americans, particularly conservative Americans, have been unwilling to pay their debts or pay as they go. Americans have convinced themselves that they should get all these services...AND not pay any taxes. It's insane and completely unsustainable. The "answer" has been to borrow and print money. So far, the Chinese are still lending.

Govt. has to pay off debts in good times, so that it can borrow in bad. The road to disaster lies in doing what conservatives have done: borrowing to the hilt in good times and bad. It could be worse, if current conservatives got their way we would cut govt. spending during a recession...and cause a depression.

At some point we have to start paying our current bills again and service our debt. Either that or we have to start eliminating services. If we do start eliminating services I vote that we eliminate Soc. Security and Medicare for those 65-80 first (keep it available for those reaching those ages in following years.) They are the ones who've been taxing later generations for the past few decades keeping their own income taxes down while using their kids/grand kids' soc. security contributions to pay their unsustainable lifestyles. They are pulling out far more than they put in, so let them reap the benefits of their short term thinking. If paying for private health insurance and living off our own earnings/savings is good enough for the rest of us, why not for them to?

Runs with bison
10-30-2009, 09:23 AM
I don't think any of them are grounded in reality when it concerns budget issues. "No money? That's OK, we'll just vote to raise our own credit. What, we're voting on whether we get a raise or not........".

I've long believed (at least two decades anyway) that pay for Federal judges, representatives, Senators, the President, etc. should be indexed to inflation the same as Social Security. In addition, minimum wage should be indexed the same way. They should not be able to raise or lower one without raising or lowering the other by the same percentage factor. (Dubya's pay was doubled over Clinton's...talk about a bad investment...reminiscent of all the money corporate CEO's/Bankers have raked in while pillaging their companies and wrecking the economy.)

I also believe capital gains/investments should be taxed just like any other income (and should include deductions for Social Security/Medicare taxes)...but only after indexing for inflation so you would have zero taxes on anything that didn't provide return at least as great as inflation. Ditto for interest/dividend income. That makes it a good news/bad news sort of thing. I'm tired of having a system arranged to encourage risky borrowing, and discourage saving.

Cookie
10-30-2009, 10:03 AM
Ian, now what have you learned from this thread? :)

Ian Gills
10-30-2009, 10:38 AM
I have learnt that Scuba Dave once had a motor cycle and that Conservative America are the bad guys.

I am just so fiscally, socially and secksually liberal. Let's face it, liberals are much more fun to have parties with.

Scuba_Dave
10-30-2009, 02:45 PM
I still have a MC
Honda ACE Shadow 1100cc
I have put a windshield on since this pic, and took the back seat off

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y105/Daveywb/Vehicles/ACEShadow1100a.jpg

Cookie
10-30-2009, 04:43 PM
Uh, oh, trouble in paradise, back seat gone, bike now built for one... lol. :)

Ian Gills
10-30-2009, 04:45 PM
Only 1100cc. That would struggle to carry me.

Cookie
10-30-2009, 04:49 PM
My feet wouldn't touch the ground.

Cookie
10-30-2009, 04:50 PM
You need a Harley Ian. . .

Scuba_Dave
10-30-2009, 05:11 PM
Uh, oh, trouble in paradise, back seat gone, bike now built for one... lol. :)

Wife won't ride....brother was in 2 accidents on MC
I attended the funeral


Only 1100cc. That would struggle to carry me.

Nah, plenty of guys bigger then you ride smaller bikes :D

http://www.societyofrobots.com/images/mechanics_suspension_fat_motorcycle.jpg

Ian Gills
10-30-2009, 05:29 PM
My brother has a MC and it scares the bejesus out of me that he'll come off one day.

Now I live in the US, I buy him all the great (and cheap) motorcycle clothing you have over here and send it home for presents at Christmas and birthdays. I've bought him lots of stuff made by Alpinestars. I love this site: www.kneedraggers.com

I want a bike with a turbo.

My brother on his 'real' bike wearing the leathers I bought him here, and the gloves and the...

8779

I've just sent him some Alpinestars boots for Christmas.

Cookie
10-30-2009, 05:52 PM
Sorry to hear about your wife's brother Dave.
I was in an accident years ago with one, he did survive but it would had helped him, if he had worn a helmet, wasn't drunk, speeding and paid attention to the street signs. We both got quite hurt. I literally drove my car into the pole in order not to hit him straight on, I alway hope God remembers that and gives me extra points, lol. :)

Cass
10-31-2009, 05:12 AM
I love this site: www.kneedraggers.com (http://www.kneedraggers.com)





You just like the girl that pops up on the ad....

frenchie
10-31-2009, 09:52 AM
Ian - I think your problem(s) with trying to understand America, is you keep trying to relate it to the UK.

You keep thinking it's a single country, the way England is a country - it's not - it never was.

It's a confederation of States, that slowly grew more & more centralized. Instead of trying to compare it to England, try comparing it to what the EU might be like, in a couple hundred years.

master plumber mark
10-31-2009, 10:26 AM
I have learnt that Scuba Dave once had a motor cycle and that Conservative America are the bad guys.

I am just so fiscally, socially and secksually liberal. Let's face it, liberals are much more fun to have parties with.

I say...let the printing presses run,,,,,
print money till its going out of style..
lets just piss it all down the drain...


those dirty converative bastards dont want to party and have fun....
alll those bastards want to do is work steady and work hard.
day in and day out..... no parties ....
all those dull S.o.bs want to to is go to church on Sundays....

thats not for us liberals, ...no sireee....

I say...
give everyone what they want till we run out
of countries willing to buy our debt..
and no one will loan us any more.....


I say .....party hearty, marty....
get blissfully drunk... smoke a bunch of grass,
and reproduce with anything that even resembles human
make more of those anchor babies.....

do whatever it takes to keep you numb and stupid to what
is going on all around you....

and vote for the clown who will give you the most
free benefits and bigger welfare checks...


the big question is ..
Whats gonna happen when China finally calls in their note...???.

Now that day will be a very sobering event...

when their is nothing left to share..
and all them free benefits and welfare checks stop comming.
and then its basically everyone for themselves...

Ian.......when all the free-loaders start getting hungry.....
thats the day when you will understand why a lot of the hard
working people here have guns.....


Rome is burning down to the ground.........

Ian Gills
10-31-2009, 11:36 AM
It's a confederation of States, that slowly grew more & more centralized. Instead of trying to compare it to England, try comparing it to what the EU might be like, in a couple hundred years.

We'd save a whole lot of money of we got rid of the pesky States.


thats not for us liberals, ...no sireee....

Mark is a democrat. How delightful.

master plumber mark
10-31-2009, 11:40 AM
:D
We'd save a whole lot of money of we got rid of the pesky States.



Mark is a democrat. How delightful.

sorry Ian, I could not resist ranting and
raveing a little bit......:D.

installed a water heater today, cleaned out a drain,
and repaired a toilet...
and now I just got a call on a Rheem water heater

but i am gonna go out and rake the leaves,
I get clean up the yard on my free time.....THATS CALLED WORK

ho hum ....but someone has got to do all this mundane petty dirty work
no one else is gonna do it for me....

or the party for all the rest of us will come to an adbrupt halt


Ian....
didnt England used to sell slaves to the united States
a long time ago??

Ian Gills
10-31-2009, 12:58 PM
I get clean up the yard on my free time.....THATS CALLED WORK


The Socialist in me does my elderly neighbor's yard too! That's called WORKING FOR THE COMMON GOOD.


didnt England used to sell slaves to the united States
a long time ago??

Yeah, we were in on that game. Just like we taxed your ancestors and sent the money to London to pay for my ancestors' lifestyle. Thanks Mark. You did good.

Cookie
10-31-2009, 01:24 PM
Ian, will you please do me some common good? My weeds are huge, the leaves are reproducing and everything is a mess and overgrown... :) Can you rotate tires? lol.

I will PM my address, lol.

Terry
01-16-2010, 11:13 AM
http://www.shannonlove.com/images/Little%20Shannon%203%20copy.jpg
I seem to be the only one not holding a gun in this photo.
The one in the fur parka is my brother James (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-love/), he had come down for a visit from Alaska.
He now works in Washington DC, London And Geneva.
The one on the far right, is my younger brother Shannon (http://www.shannonlove.com).

gator37
01-16-2010, 12:44 PM
1. "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."~Thomas Jefferson


2. "Those who trade liberty for security have neither." ~ John Adams

3. Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.
4. An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

5. Only a government that is afraid of its citizens tries to control them.
6. Gun control is not about guns; it's about control.

7. You only have the rights you are willing to fight for.
8. Know guns, know peace, know safety.
No guns, no peace, no safety.

9. You don't shoot to kill; you shoot to stay alive.
10. Assault is a behavior, not a device.
11. 64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.
12. The United States Constitution (c) 1791. All Rights Reserved.
13. The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.
14. What part of 'shall not be infringed' do you NOT understand?

15. Guns have only two enemies; rust and politicians.

16. When you remove the people's right to bear arms, you create slaves.
17. The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control.
IF YOU AGREE, PASS THIS 'REFRESHER' ON TO TEN FREE CITIZENS

Ian Gills
01-16-2010, 03:22 PM
The one in the fur parka is my brother James, he had come down for a visit from Alaska.
He now works in Washington DC, London And Geneva.

You should have known James would do good someday. He was the only one back then who could afford shoes.

Shannon became a pimp. It was that or turn gangster.

The mystery figure third from left appears to be Clark Kent.


http://georgetwopointoh.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/clark_kent.jpg

ballvalve
01-19-2010, 04:18 AM
Well, Ian, As a subtle and friendly reminder, you are able to make these speculations and be a liberal world traveler rather than a German slave because American in 1939 had the most guns per capita in the world and every kid knew how to shoot a squirrel or cat at 100 yards. We also had the most machine tools, mines, factories and wherwithal to use them. And our kids were willing to dodge the Geman u-boats to go to merry England [our ex-tormentor] and fly the day missions bombing your teutonic buds...In those airplanes that poured out of Henry Fords 4 mile long plant llike beer in a British pub. [You said elsewhere you would never dare own an American auto, but I say you owe your very existence to Mr. Ford, and should immediately scrap your Hondas and pay up your debt to our society by honoring his genius]

12 of mom and dads school chums finished on the beaches of Normandy. I bet they came in from England in a landing craft made by GM. Our right to carry guns is as basic as the English's right to twist up the English language into a quirky hodgepodge of noises that makes a chinese kitchen sound calming.

If the commoners as well as the landowners were allowed guns and hunting rights back in ye merry olde England, I would guess Australia would still be a wildnerness.

It was'nt a bit unusual to see a 14 year old and his friends carrying long guns through town walking to the cornfields for a pheasant hunt in small towns up into the 1970's. Now I suppose a swat team would shut the city at all exits and entry points.

One interesting statistic from the Wall Street journal: America is still by far the worlds largest industrial/manufacturing nation, in spite of all the debri at the dollar stores. So....maybe we can save the world from itself one more time before the Chinese run over us all like fire ants on crystal meth.

ballvalve
01-19-2010, 04:26 AM
I am beginning to dislike all these State laws. Is there a movement I can join to abolish the States and have the Feds take over everything?

Well, you could go back to America in about 1775 and be a subject of the British. I think that would be a fair equivilent.

ballvalve
01-19-2010, 04:31 AM
http://www.shannonlove.com/images/Little%20Shannon%203%20copy.jpg
I seem to be the only one not holding a gun in this photo.
The one in the fur parka is my brother James (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-love/), he had come down for a visit from Alaska.
He now works in Washington DC, London And Geneva.
The one on the far right, is my younger brother Shannon (http://www.shannonlove.com).

You mean your guitar did'nt have a gun concealed in the neck like mine???

Ian Gills
01-20-2010, 01:02 PM
Well, you could go back to America in about 1775 and be a subject of the British. I think that would be a fair equivilent.

They were very happy days indeed.