PDA

View Full Version : I just do not understand police in America



Ian Gills
10-17-2009, 12:45 PM
In England, it's easy. There is the police, they drive cars, and they can arrest you.

In America, it's a lot more tricky. There's State Troopers, county police, town police, metro police, park police, the sheriff, the FBI, the CIA and a whole lot more. And they all drive cars with flashing lights on top.

So who does what, and what can they do to me?

Put another way, if I drive by one of these guys in a car and give them the Bird which ones can chase me and arrest me?

A State Trooper?

A State Trooper who happens to be out of State?

A County Sheriff?

The Park Police?

I just don't get it. Which ones could someone Bird and where?

http://a.getbackimages.com/uri/w514_h800_cfalse_K0303012148/burt-reynolds-in-smokey-and-the-bandit-ii-/image/4/0/5/6/4056557.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/US_Park_Police_1.jpg

jimbo
10-17-2009, 01:50 PM
There is kindergarden police, university police, shopping center police, etc.

Being a free country, you can flip a bird to any officer if you feel like it. Not against the law. But if for any reason, they tell you to pull over and show ID, just freaking do it! Cooperate with the police, and you will never go wrong. There are tons of people sitting in the county hoosegow because they thought is was ok to scuffle, or refuse to ID themselves, etc. "checking people out" is how cops find bad guys. If you are not a bad guy, just suck up your pride and you will be on your way!

Don't go to places where bad things happen, and bad things won't happen to you! ( I have been down some dark alleys in Olongapo and Pattya Beach. That doesn't count!)

I am 65 and have never been rousted by the cops for any reason. I don't act up in public, don't go out after dark, etc! Remember, nothing good ever happens after midnight!

Ian Gills
10-17-2009, 01:52 PM
So any of these can ID me, anywhere?

http://www.carspace.com/.5c59fd27/cmd.233/embedded..5c59fd1c

I thought they were a lot nicer here.

http://dvdmedia.ign.com/dvd/image/article/801/801248/chips-season-one-dvd-review-20070703092859880-000.jpg

frenchie
10-17-2009, 02:19 PM
City of London police, Metropolitan police force, British transport Police; various Parks in the city have their own constabularies... then there's MI5 & MI6.



I'm sorry, what was the question again?

Ian Gills
10-17-2009, 02:24 PM
I was just wondering whether there were any differences. There are just so many types here all doing similar things...driving around. Different uniforms, different cars. Different hair cuts (state troopers all have the same one). It really is quite strange.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41375000/jpg/_41375467_hazzard_boss_rex.jpg

frenchie
10-17-2009, 02:29 PM
So any of these can ID me, anywhere?


Dude, this is America. They can ask you to identity yourself. But without reasonable suspicion of a crime being committed or about to be committed, they can't demand it.

Ian Gills
10-17-2009, 02:35 PM
Ah, I see.

Does that mean (and I am being serious) that you need to carry an ID, like a driving license, at all times, even if not driving?

Or will a spoken name and address suffice, should an officer ask?

frenchie
10-17-2009, 02:51 PM
This isn't Europe - there's no law that says you have to carry ID.

Spoken name & number & such is fine. They'll run it through the computer, maybe ask you a couple of questions to prove you're who you say you are (what's your address, what's your birthday, something like that).

Note that I'm just talking about, walking down the street, here. You want to go into a bar, you need ID. You want to go into any Federal Building, you need ID. You want to go into some doorman buildings in NYC, you need to show picture ID. And so on.

Ian Gills
10-17-2009, 02:57 PM
Seems fair enough. But in England you do not need to have a driving licence on your person to drive.

I have yet to have an encounter with the police here. Not even a speeding ticket in four years, hence all the questions.

That's because I was required to be taught to drive.

With an instructor for ten weeks.

I enjoyed my driving test here though. A drive round the block in a hire car. Freedom...to damage someone and yourself.

Scuba_Dave
10-17-2009, 03:26 PM
I've had some run-ins in my younger days
Went to Court after out running a Mustang 5.0...that was a cop
Speeds in excess of 100mph
They read it off exactly as it had happened
The officer never turned his lights on (hidden in grille) until the end ( I was doing 55)
At which point I pulled over
The judge threw it out...since up to that point he could have been some nut

I imagine if you are driving & refuse to show ID you then have a problem

Ian Gills
10-17-2009, 04:25 PM
Scuba Dave is da dude. Man!


You can just make out the Police Mustang in the distance.

http://blogs.sltrib.com/slcrawler/uploaded_images/dukes-of-hazzard-general-lee-dodge-charger-rightjpg-706833.jpg

Scuba_Dave
10-17-2009, 05:35 PM
So you saw my '66 Mustang :D

Actually I outran them on my MC

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y105/Daveywb/Vehicles/RebelFlag.jpg

Thatguy
10-18-2009, 08:08 AM
I have heard that the color of the signs and backgrounds you see along the road determines what legal people have jurisdiction in what area.

I have also heard of two cops who followed a "foreign-looking" young adult [who happened to be a law student] in his car. He got out of his car and was walking when the first cop demanded ID.
The student said, "Your choice is to arrest me now or leave me alone."
The second cop told the first one to "Let it go" and both cops left.
Kinda' makes ya' wonder. . .

Cass
10-18-2009, 08:26 AM
Cops can hold you for 48 Hrs. if you don't provide them your name....but at the end of 48 hrs. they have to charge you with something or release yopu...

frenchie
10-18-2009, 06:50 PM
That depends on the State.

sjsmithjr
10-19-2009, 07:04 PM
I have to agree with Jimbo. During my younger days I once rode my motorcycle out the front door of a bar where a buddy of mine worked, a couple of blocks from where I was living. It was a 1969 BSA Rocket 3, and I had parked it inside because it was a beast start cold in the winter. A city cop in a patrol car seemed to think this was all a bit unusual and hit the lights. I was stone cold sober and figured I'd go ahead and head for the house figuring to plead ignorance and have the bike in the driveway. The officer was less than amused by my failure to pull over immediately and I freely admit to being a smarta$$ as he administered the field sobriety the test. I nailed the backwards ABC's and did a pirouette after successfully turning 360 with my eyes closed and arms out. He looked at me and said something to the effect of "son, I can't charge you with DUI but PD (public drunkenness) is at my discretion." I got to: spend the remainder of the night in the drunk tank, have a soggy p-nut butter sandwich for breakfast, and pay a fine. I've never been anything short of courteous to law enforcement since. :D

Cookie
10-25-2009, 05:06 AM
Cops need to be better educated, a cop without a college education is a dangerous thing. They usually lack compassion, empathy, respect for anything or anyone, intelliegence and self-control.


9 mins ago

SAN JOSE, Calif. – A cell phone video that shows police officers repeatedly hitting an unarmed university student with batons and a Taser gun has prompted a criminal investigation into the officers' conduct, a San Jose police spokesman said.

The video, posted by the San Jose Mercury News on its Web site late Saturday, shows one officer hitting 20-year-old Vietnamese student Phuong Ho with a metal baton more than 10 times, including once on the head. Another officer is seen using his Taser gun on the San Jose State math major.

The final baton strike in last month's incident appears to take place after handcuffs have been attached to Ho's wrists.

"It takes me back to the day I saw the Rodney King video on TV," said Roger Clark, a police expert and a retired lieutenant with the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department.

The last baton strike ought to bring a felony charge, Clark said.

Officers arrested Ho on suspicion of assaulting one of his roommates. He was not armed when police arrived and he told the newspaper he didn't resist arrest.

The confrontation began Sept. 3 when Ho's roommate, Jeremy Suftin, put soap on Ho's steak. The two scuffled, and Ho picked up a steak knife, saying that in his home country he would have killed Suftin for doing what he did.

Police were called, and four officers responded.

Officer Kenneth Siegel encountered Ho in the hallway, but couldn't understand the student's accent, police reports said. Ho then ignored a police command to stand still, reports said.

When Ho tried to follow Siegel into his room, officer Steven Payne Jr. moved to handcuff Ho. Payne wrote in his report that he pushed the student into a wall and then forced him to the floor when he resisted being handcuffed.

Ho, who weighs more than 200 lbs., said his glasses fell off. As he went to pick them up, the officers struck him, he said.

Another one of Ho's roommates, Dimitri Masouris, captured the events on his cell phone. An officer can be heard on the video shouting, "Turn over!" Ho can be heard moaning and crying as he's struck.

"In philosophy, they call it 'dehumanization,'" Ho told the Mercury News. "So when they think me a dangerous guy, they don't treat me like I was human. They hit me like an animal or something."

Masouris said he considered the police response excessive. He sold the tape to San Jose lawyer Duyen Hoang Nguyen, who is representing Ho.

The Mercury News obtained a copy of the video and showed it to Daniel Katz, San Jose's assistant police chief. The police department is taking the matter very seriously, he said.

The city's large Vietnamese-American community is already angry over the police shooting of a mentally ill Vietnamese man in May, the newspaper said in an editorial about Ho's beating. The lack of public disclosure in the investigation that followed was also a problem, the paper said.

Police experts said the grainy, shaky video is difficult to view and may not show actions by Ho that justified the officers' response. Nevertheless, several said the video raises serious concerns.

"Once he is handcuffed, then he is helpless," said Frank Jordan, a former San Francisco police chief and mayor. "If you can show that his hands are behind his back, and he is handcuffed, that is where you get brutality. That would be excessive force."

Siegel and Payne didn't respond to written requests for comment sent through department officials and their union.

___

FloridaOrange
10-25-2009, 06:51 AM
Cops need to be better educated, a cop without a college education is a dangerous thing. They usually lack compassion, empathy, respect for anything or anyone, intelliegence and self-control.


I don't think higher education gives anyone more respect, self control or compassion. There are definitely bad cops out there, as there are bad people in all trades and professions. I've met cops on both sides of the fence but don't let the bad ones color my views of the good ones.

jeffeverde
10-25-2009, 09:02 AM
In England, it's easy. There is the police, they drive cars, and they can arrest you.

In America, it's a lot more tricky. There's State Troopers, county police, town police, metro police, park police, the sheriff, the FBI, the CIA and a whole lot more. And they all drive cars with flashing lights on top.



In a nutshell-

In general terms, they're all Law Enforcement Officers (aka LEO's)

-A Police Officer is typically an employee of a City. Local Police enforce City and State ordinances (most (all?) municipal codes have a blanket statement that incorporates all state ordinances into the municipal code).

-A Sheriff is employed by a County. They patrol unincorporated (not under the jurisdiction of any city) County land. Also, towns too small to justify their own police department will often contract with their local county Sheriff for law enforcement services. The County Sheriff typically provides Bailiffs for county courts, and the correctional officers for county jails. Sheriff's enforce county and state ordinances.

-State Trooper/State Police/Highway Patrol -- like a Sheriff, but at the state level. A primary duty is enforcement of the state Vehicle Code on state and interstate highways.

-U.S. Marshall - like a Sheriff, at the federal level

-FBI - the name kind of says it all - Detectives with nation-wide jurisdiction - enforce Federal law

-ATF - like the FBI, but limited to Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms issues.

-CIA - an information gathering organization, by charter, limited to operations outside of the U.S. --- (but...)

-State Park Police, National Park Rangers, etc, etc, etc - what the name implies

Cross-jurisdiction authority varies. In some cases, a LEO has zero authority outside of their specific jurisdiction (particularly in regards non-violent crimes). But in many (all?) states, any LEO can at least detain you and call in a local LEO if they observe you in the commission of a crime.

Allen Meyers
10-25-2009, 09:13 AM
Don't forget the hunting and fishing police!!!!:D:D

jimbo
10-25-2009, 09:18 AM
Ah, I see.

Does that mean (and I am being serious) that you need to carry an ID, like a driving license, at all times, even if not driving?

Or will a spoken name and address suffice, should an officer ask?

You are not required to carry ID. But you are required to identify yourself to the police if they demand it. Mind you, cops can't and don't go around pulling people off the road or off the street to check their ID. But if they pull you over for a reason...speeding, headlight out, etc, they have the right to identify you. If you are not carrying ID, and you give them your correct name and date of birth, then the BFC ( big freaking computer) at police headquarters, can confirm and all is well. If you fail to identify yourself, they can hook you up. This is one way that people who are on the lamb get caught. I am OK with the system. Secret to no hassles....carry your drivers license, and if you get pulled over, just get over it! I never get pulled over. People who do usually deserve it. There are exceptions....( for example, DWB....driving while black, in an exclusive high end community). We are working on that.

jeffeverde
10-25-2009, 09:39 AM
. . . Mind you, cops can't and don't go around pulling people off the road or off the street to check their ID. . .

"Can't" doesn't necessarily equal "Don't". I used to live and work in Irvine (an upper-middle class community with a highly paid, highly trained police foce, and virtually no crime to occupy them), and worked graveyard shift. My "well-loved" (read "beat to sh*t") 4x4 didn't fit the neighborhood profile, and I could count on getting pulled over at least once a month on my 5 minute drive to work at 1am . One time I asked the officer why she had stopped me, and she responded by issuing a ticket for - get this - a "too bright tail light" (when I took it in to get the fix-it ticket signed off (having made no change to the offending tail light), the officer laughed his a$$ off and wanted to know what I'd done to piss off the citing officer).

So, Yes, cops do sometimes pull people over just to check their ID.

Cookie
10-25-2009, 09:52 AM
In this regards, education does count, they need to be much more well-rounded in dealings with people. They need to know so much more than they do. They are very ignorant of so much. They need to sharpen their people skills, their decision making processes, if they don't have what it takes, what is needed, the people who come under their authority suffer. And, if one person suffers needlessly at the hands of one cop, it is one too many. It could be you or your loved one. It doesn't have to be and shouldn't have to be.

Higher education is the key to being a good cop. They need to be better educated all the way around since, their job is so authorative and their postion and status can make or break another's life. THEY HAVE ALOT OF POWER AND THEY NEED ALOT OF EDUCATION TO USE IT WISELY.

Just the way it is and should be. The bar has to be raised on this, and I hope in time it will be.

frenchie
10-25-2009, 11:11 AM
The flipside to that is, how much education can you demand for a job that pays what theirs does? I know this varies by region & by which police force... but I make more money doing construction, than I would as an NYPD cop.

Considering the relative stress levels of our jobs? That just ain't right.

Anytime I interact with a cop, I aim to be helpful, make their day go smoothly, as much as I can. Reckon they've got enough crap on their plate, without me adding to it.

Cookie
10-25-2009, 11:20 AM
Well, then, you might have to pay higher taxes, to pay the cops more, with more education, so, the cops can do their jobs as well as they should be.

Their position is one that effects many people lives, not just yours, and because of that, they should be very educated to do the job well.

They have a job which gives them power, and with that has to come alot of knowledge or everyone loses out.

Cookie
10-25-2009, 12:10 PM
In our township, they only need a high school diploma and when they are hired to weigh the appropriate weight. Afterwards, is a different story. Most townships do not require much. Anyone who wants a job, graduated high school, can run a mile, got a clean slate, can become a police officer.

Keep raising the bar,

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-the-qualifications-to-be-a-police-officer.htm

Don't you want the best for your community that protect and serve you?

(you don't want a fly by night fixing your plumbing or your car.)

jimbo
10-25-2009, 12:10 PM
"
So, Yes, cops do sometimes pull people over just to check their ID.
I did mention the exception of DWB, and various corollaries such as DPS ( driving piece of @^*&$$# in wrong neighborhood) and DWN ( driving in the wrong neighborhood...you just don't look right).

Cookie
10-25-2009, 03:30 PM
What have you learned from all of this, Ian?

FloridaOrange
10-26-2009, 04:44 AM
I did mention the exception of DWB, and various corollaries such as DPS ( driving piece of @^*&$$# in wrong neighborhood) and DWN ( driving in the wrong neighborhood...you just don't look right).

You forgot DIAFCWTY. (Driving in a fast car while too young). :D

gdog
10-26-2009, 09:52 PM
I don't think higher education gives anyone more respect, self control or compassion. There are definitely bad cops out there, as there are bad people in all trades and professions. I've met cops on both sides of the fence but don't let the bad ones color my views of the good ones.

Ditto what FloridaOrange said!!!

There are people in every profession that are qualified, have integrity of character and do their job in a professional manner, and then there are those that don't; regardless of their education level!!!

Cookie: with all due respect, you are stereotyping cops based on your personal local experience, and any stereotyping (in my book) is not a good thing.

BTW: I have lived in several different cities in the U.S. The city cops here are the most worthless ones I have seen (in general, of course) and this is the only city I have lived in where the city police are required to have a college degree.

Cookie
10-27-2009, 01:08 AM
I don't know of any position where authority and power is at the helm and it doesn't demand higher education.
(I have never mentioned personal experience, I am only using common sense)

Cass
10-27-2009, 01:38 AM
The thing that irks me is public servants that take an oath to up hold the Constitution and have no idea what that means let alone know what it says...and there is no training for them to know...

Cass
10-27-2009, 01:42 AM
Power corrupts and it seems to go to cops heads rather quickly

Cookie
10-27-2009, 01:53 AM
Their position especially can make a dangerous equation since they carry a loaded weapon.
No other postion I can think of which has as much power and authority with so little education.

Peanut9199
10-27-2009, 10:59 AM
Their position especially can make a dangerous equation since they carry a loaded weapon.
No other postion I can think of which has as much power and authority with so little education.

When i was in the Military i was shocked at how little education some people had and these people carried bigger guns than Police.

Thatguy
10-27-2009, 11:21 AM
When i was in the Military i was shocked at how little education some people had and these people carried bigger guns than Police.
The ideal employee is one with little education. Otherwise they would question their orders, blow the whistle on misconduct, hire attorneys, spread discontent among other employees, etc., etc.

Ian Gills
10-27-2009, 11:51 AM
Wow. What a lively debate. I have learnt a lot.

Having read through your posts, some things surprise me about cops in the US and some don't.

Pulling people over for the slightest of reasons to check them out has always been a trick of all police. So I get that one. I was pulled over all the time as a kid. And once I was wearing a kilt!

But what shocks me a little more is that police here do seem to get away with being more violent. Elsewhere, if a shot gets fired or a fist thrown, then there is an enquiry. Here, the cop's word seems to be taken as golden. Many of my neighbors have warned me not to get cheeky with the police otherwise they will beat me. That just does not seem right.

And keeping your hands on the wheel if you get pulled over or you might get shot, is equally ridiculous.

I'm just gonna get out of the car if I am ever pulled over.

Cookie
10-27-2009, 02:10 PM
Seriously, Ian don't just get out of the car, and reach to go into your glove box, or anywhere. These moves are considered threatening.

Cookie
10-27-2009, 02:29 PM
What is under those kilts? ;)

frenchie
10-27-2009, 03:51 PM
Seriously, Ian don't just get out of the car, and reach to go into your glove box, or anywhere. These moves are considered threatening.

LISTEN TO COOKIE, Ian.

Look at it from the cop's point of view - this isn't England, where the odds are very slim that the driver's carrying a gun. In this country, it's a very real possibility.

Seriously, no joke - if you look at the stats, there's basically nothing more threatening to a cop, than a "routine" traffic stop:

FloridaOrange
10-27-2009, 04:53 PM
And keeping your hands on the wheel if you get pulled over or you might get shot, is equally ridiculous.

I'm just gonna get out of the car if I am ever pulled over.

I've seriously never had an issue, and I've been pulled over alot. I seriously mean alot. Been searched better than 30 times too in my past , though never arrested for anything.

The only time a cop got squirrely on me was due to my cell phone. It was an early flip and rotate model that had a camera on a swivel. The cop could only see the end of the camera and it was silver, for a second he thought it was the barrel release on a pistol.

By the way, I'm at work tonight. My office is right on the edge of a not so nice part of town. Came to work packing, just not an option in the UK and I'm glad I have the right.

Cheap and effective:
http://webpages.charter.net/emcdonel/P89.jpg

Ian Gills
10-27-2009, 04:55 PM
OK, can I just give him the bird from the driver's seat then?


Slowly.

Is that a water pistol Mr Orange?

In England we prefer to use knives. It's more personal.

FloridaOrange
10-27-2009, 05:24 PM
Water pistols do nothing to the bad guys Ian, except get them wet. With anyone that I would have to use deadly force against I'd prefer to keep them at least a few feet away.

You could just give a cop the finger, that is your right but you might not like the consequences.

Peanut9199
10-28-2009, 04:58 AM
In England we prefer to use knives. It's more personal.

"Just like an Englishman to bring a knife to a gun fight"


A lawyer runs a stop sign and gets pulled over by a Sheriffs Deputy. He thinks that he is smarter than the Deputy because he is sure that he has a better education. He decides to prove this to himself and have some fun at the deputies expense.

Deputy says, “License and registration, please.”

Lawyer says, “What for?”

Deputy says, “You didn’t come to a complete stop at the stop sign”

Lawyer says, “I slowed down, and no one was coming.”

Deputy says, “You still didn’t come to a complete stop. License and registration, please.”

Lawyer says, “What’s the difference?”

Deputy says, “The difference is you have to come to a complete stop, that’s the law. License and registration, please!”

Lawyer says, “If you can show me the legal difference between slow down and stop, I’ll give you my license and registration and you give me the ticket, if not you let me go and no ticket.”

Deputy says, “Exit your vehicle, sir.”

At this point, the deputy takes out his nightstick and starts beating the ever-loving snot out of the lawyer and says “Do you want me to stop or just slow down?”

Peanut9199
10-28-2009, 05:08 AM
I'm still wondering about those kilts.

I like a story i heard on TV from Mel Gibson while filming Braveheart.

He was sitting around a campfire with some of the Scottish extras and he turned to one of the guys and said "What do you wear under your kilt" and the guy said "Your wife's lipstick" haha

"WHAT DO YOU WEAR UNDER YOUR KILT?"

How badly do you want to know?
How warm are your hands?
Me mother once told me a real lady wouldn't ask. She was right, God bless 'er.
My Scottish pride.
On a good day, lipstick.
Play your cards right and you can find out.
Tell me madam , would you go jogging without a bra? If so, where do you jog and when?
Sorry, I'm a bit shy and not much good with words. Give me your hand...
Talcum powder


"WHAT'S UNDER YOUR KILT?"

A wee set of pipes.
Bagpipes, wanna give 'em a blow?
It's the smallest airport in the world.....2 hangars and a night fighter.
My shoes and socks.
String -- I had to tie it up so it didn’t hang below the kilt.
What God graced me with.

Cass
10-28-2009, 05:23 AM
I'm just gonna get out of the car if I am ever pulled over.

Getting out of the car, depending on the circumstances, is the quickest way to get a gun pulled on you...

And I don't know about you but I don't want the possibility of an AD to happen when a gun is pointed at me especially if there is no reason...

Just wait for them to approach and contact you before you do anything...

Cass
10-28-2009, 05:30 AM
As far as knives go I know a profesional knife fighter that if a gun was not pointed at him and he was within 5 feet of the gun holder could have him disabled before he could blink...but he is the exception...most people haven't the faintest idea how to use a knife corectly...

Cookie
10-28-2009, 05:31 AM
HA HA HA HA, very very funny Peter.

Peanut9199
10-28-2009, 07:08 AM
As far as knives go I know a profesional knife fighter that if a gun was not pointed at him and he was within 5 feet of the gun holder could have him disabled before he could blink...but he is the exception...most people haven't the faintest idea how to use a knife corectly...

Reminds me of James Coburn in the "The Magnificent Seven"

Thatguy
10-28-2009, 07:21 AM
As far as knives go I know a profesional knife fighter that if a gun was not pointed at him and he was within 5 feet of the gun holder could have him disabled before he could blink...but he is the exception...most people haven't the faintest idea how to use a knife corectly...
"In the Gravest Extreme" had a section on people who are good with knives.

Ian Gills
10-28-2009, 07:31 AM
As far as knives go I know a profesional knife fighter that if a gun was not pointed at him and he was within 5 feet of the gun holder could have him disabled before he could blink...but he is the exception...most people haven't the faintest idea how to use a knife corectly...

Most English youths do.

Interesting profession being a professional knifefighter.

Cass
10-28-2009, 08:43 AM
He is responsible for training police and he teaches them what someone with a knife and knows how to use it can do to help them be prepaired...

That is why he is a professional...he was my instructor when I took my firearms concealed carry course...

Scuba_Dave
10-28-2009, 09:31 AM
Wow. What a lively debate. I have learnt a lot.

Having read through your posts, some things surprise me about cops in the US and some don't.

Pulling people over for the slightest of reasons to check them out has always been a trick of all police. So I get that one. I was pulled over all the time as a kid. And once I was wearing a kilt!

But what shocks me a little more is that police here do seem to get away with being more violent. Elsewhere, if a shot gets fired or a fist thrown, then there is an enquiry. Here, the cop's word seems to be taken as golden. Many of my neighbors have warned me not to get cheeky with the police otherwise they will beat me. That just does not seem right.

And keeping your hands on the wheel if you get pulled over or you might get shot, is equally ridiculous.

I'm just gonna get out of the car if I am ever pulled over.

I have grown up with Police as neighbors & friends
Never get out of the car, keep your hands on the wheel
They may have pulled you over because a bad guy is driving a car like yours
That happened to me, had a long talk with the officer as I was restoring a '66 Mustang & he was restoring one too
Friends saw me pulled over & wanted to know what I did
I've always been polite when pulled over...usually just a warning
My friend was a jerk most times....and received tickets....his insurance was very high

Went out with an English girl & her friends in the car behind us were pulled over
So I pulled over as they were following us,she jumped out of the car to go back & see what was going on
Officer had a fit & told her to get back in the car....luckily we were all sober

That was actually a given when going out with the English girls - one was always the designated driver & sober

Ian Gills
10-28-2009, 10:50 AM
I'm still getting out. This is the land of the free. And I like some fresh air when talking to an officer.

Cookie
10-28-2009, 10:59 AM
Nothing is ever free, we pay a price for everything.

Peanut9199
10-28-2009, 12:38 PM
Nothing is ever free, we pay a price for everything.

True here's your fresh air


By the mid- to late-1990s, regulatory economists estimated that the Clean Air Act was costing Americans on the order of 1 to 2 percent of GDP per year—about $1,000 to $2,000 per household. The incremental costs of attaining the tougher ozone and PM2.5 standards that the EPA has adopted since then will likely add an additional $1,000 or so a year to the average household’s outlay, but will provide little or no incremental health benefit in return.

Peanut9199
10-29-2009, 05:00 AM
That's funny


You ain't got a licence.

I guess he ain't got any education.


Yes i bid on it, but i didn't have a contract.

That's what i do in my spare time i quote on jobs but i don't really want to do the jobs.


I can't believe Al Pacino went from acting to bidding on jobs without a licence.

frenchie
10-31-2009, 10:42 AM
True here's your fresh air


By the mid- to late-1990s, regulatory economists estimated that the Clean Air Act was costing Americans on the order of 1 to 2 percent of GDP per year—about $1,000 to $2,000 per household. The incremental costs of attaining the tougher ozone and PM2.5 standards that the EPA has adopted since then will likely add an additional $1,000 or so a year to the average household’s outlay, but will provide little or no incremental health benefit in return.
Reply With Quote


I've seen estimates ranging from 20 billion a year, to more than 100 billion a year, as the supposed cost of the CAA. Hard to quantify that sort of thing...

Equally hard to quantify: wonder how much money it's saved us in medical bills, days off work due to respiratory illness, and so on? Also things like less maintenance on the exterior of your house, monuments, machinery, etc.

The EPA reckons we saved $45 for every $1 it cost to comply to the CAA. That's probably an over-estimate (they're not exactly likely to be neutral on this issue), but it's just common sense that it must have saved us something. I don't know where your quote is from, but I'd distrust any source that completely ignores the question.