14" Rough-In Toilet Choices

[cgskiking]

I have an older home that has a 14" rough-in toilet. My only choices seem to be: 1. Gerber DF-21-304 (Ultra Dual Flush/ Pressure Assist) (http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30226)
2. American Standard Cadet 3 (http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11570)
3. Kohler Wellworth/ K-3433 (http://www.us.kohler.com/onlinecatalog/detail.jsp?prod_num=3433)
4. Toto Guineviere (http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5158)/ Carrollton (http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11947)/ Vespin with the use of a Unift Adaptor.

Does anyone have experience with the Unifit Adaptor (http://www.terrylove.com/wwwboard/messages2/32141.html)and how well it works? 14inch

[Gary Swart]

The Gerber and Kohler are absolutely terrible toilets. The American Standard has quality issues with castings. Sometimes you have to make 3 or 4 returns before you get one that isn't misshaped or otherwise defective. The seem to be OK after that. The Toto Unifit Adaptor works very well and would be my choice. The quality of Toto toilets is unmatched as is their performance.

[Terry]

I sell a lot of the Toto toilets with the Unifit adapter.
They would be the better choice.

You can also get the 14" Unifit and move the bowl back 2"

The other brands use a 12" bowl.
The Wellworth has the Ingenium flush rated at 250 grams

[jadnashua]

To expound on what Terry was saying about moving things back...

With the Toto and the UniFit adapter, the same toilet can fit on 10, 12, or 14" rough-in flanges while maintaining the SAME gap behind the same tank. With the other 14" toilets, they just put a thicker tank on it, and it sticks into the room that extra 2".

Personally, with two Toto toilets with the UniFit adapter I own in my home, while you can hear a little more, my toilets are much quieter than the ones there before, and except for maybe the first few days, I no longer really hear the trickle.

Any toilet has the bowl full to overflowing. When you add anything, it overflows down the drain the same amount as what you add. In an all porcelain toilet, that waterway is more insulated, and you don't tend to hear it much (but it's there). With the Unifit, part of that drain path is plastic (the adapter), so you can hear it a little. For me, not a problem. I think the benefits far outweigh the (minor) noise issue some report. It's easier to pull the toilet, too, as the adapter stays in place, and you don't need to reset with a new wax ring (unless you need to remove that, too). This would allow you to quickly and easily remove the toilet to say paint behind it.

[Terry]

http://www.terrylove.com/images/toilet_14_rough.jpg
On the left is a TOTO Soiree with a 14" Unifit adapter.
On the right is a 14" Cadet 3.
Notice how little room there is with the Cadet 3 in this small Seattle bathroom.
http://www.terrylove.com/images/toilet_14_rough2.jpg
Now we compare the leg room.
On the left, the TOTO Soiree with 14" Unift adpapter.
On the right, the Cadet 3
The TOTO wins the Race for Space.

Just so you know, we took out the Cadet and replaced it with a Toto.

[moneypitowner]

I am having someone install a new toilet and I have several limiting factors, I am wondering what the best toilet is for my old house. The outside water pressure is 56 psi, there is a 13 3/4 rough in and, there were two metal prongs sticking out of the wall 29 1/2" from the floor from the old toilet which I would like to cover. What are my choices? Do conversions affect flush performance? I prefer round as the room is small. Additionally, the old tile was very hard to remove and so the tile was installed over the old tile. Will this affect the wax seal on the drain and waste pipe because the toilet sets up higher? The house is colonial so a higher toilet would fit the style. OH YEAH, to make matters worse, the t-bolts were rusted away! What can be done to fix that?!



Most toilets have between 1/2" and 1" behind the tank.
You can install either a standard 12" or a 14"
Terry Love

[hj]

The "prongs" are probably old toilet screws from a toilet which had 4 bolt holes in its base. Break them off flush with the floor or unscrew them from the floor. Water pressure has absolutely NOTHING to do with how a toilet flushes, unless you buy a noisy pressure assisted one. With your dimension you can use ANY toilet you want to, it just depends on how much space you can live with behind the tank whether you use a 14", 12", or 10" one.

[Terry]

Sometimes a bathroom has a non-standard dimension for the toilet rough-in. Standard is 12"
Sometimes you will see a toilet roughed in at 14".
You can always use a standard 12" rough toilet for this, but the bowl sets out from the wall an extra 2"
You can order thicker tanks from some manufacturers, that hide the fact that the bowl is setting 2" farther out, but the end of the bowl will still be out in the room.

The only manufacturer that "moves" the bowl back 2". is TOTO.
You pay more though for this advantage.
Models from Toto that allow you to move the bowl back 2" with their Unifit adapter (http://www.terrylove.com/wc/unifit.htm)are:
Vespin
Carlyle
Carrollton
Carolina
Lloyd
Pacifica
Soiree
Guinevere

With the Vespin and Carlyle, the shutoff can be 7" to the left of center.
With the Soiree and the Guinevere, the shutoff can be 5-1/2" to the left of center.

Most of these are 28" long and set off from the wall 3/4"
So on a standard 12" rough, the end of the bowl would be 28-3/4"
If you have a 14" rough, you can switch for a 14" Unifit and keep the distance to 28-3/4"
The 14" Unifit needs to be ordered in addition to the toilet.
They come with the standard 12" Unifit, which winds up being an extra part.
And no. I don't need anymore 12" Unifit adapters.

So to explain how this works:
Cadet 3 14" rough "round bowl" is 30-1/4" from the wall.
Cadet 3 14" rough "elongated bowl" is 32-1/4" from the wall.
Any of the Toto toilets above will be about 28-3/4" from the wall with the elongated bowl. Shorter then most other round bowls, and much shorter then the other elongated bowls.

You pay more, but get a better toilet, and more usable space in the bathroom.

Your call.

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/toto/unifit_choice.jpg
10" Unift, 12" Unifit and 14" Unifit adapter

[moneypitowner]

Thanks for your suggestions. What is the Guinevere like for performance? Best to just come out and ask...Will it handle tampons, and not leave smudge marks? How does the toilet get attached if the bolts are rusted and partially snapped? Any ideas on what to do with the rusty bolts on the right hand wall in the picture. The Guenevere doesn't come up high enough to cover them. Will the wax still seal on the waste pipe if the tile is laid on top of the old tile (toilet will be max. 1/2" higher than it was from waste pipe)?

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/toto/ms974_02.jpg

[jadnashua]

So much for thinking ahead...the flange should have been fixed prior to installing the new tile. But, you do what you have to now. Depending on how much room there is, it may be impossible to get the anchor bolts for the toilet out of that flange since it is now recessed. The bolts fit into slots, and normally, you'd just knock them out towards the outside, then slide some new ones in. Can't do that if the thing is now tiled in. After years of leaks, they tend to rust together and become 'one' with the flange, but they should come out, if you had room at the outside to slide them out after whacking them to the side with a hammer to loosen them up.

So, you may have to grind off the stubs, if they exist, then put down a repair ring and maybe a flange extension first. The repair ring would give you something that would hold new anchor bolts, the flange extension would bring the flange up to the proper level. You'd want to seal between the existing flange and the extension with some silicon to keep it from leaking. You'll need to drill some holes to anchor all of this, and it may take a diamond bit to do it, depending on the tile.

I have two toilets in my home that use the unifit adapter and they work fine. It is never a good idea to flush a tampon, especially if you have a septic tank.

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/toto/flange_03.jpg

[Terry]

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/toto/cst474_side.jpg
Toto Vespin II CST474CEFG with SS114 Softclose seat.
This bowl was installed on a 13-1/2" rough-in using the 14" Unifit adapter.
The water shutoff can be as close as 5-1/2" to the left of center, unless it's higher off the floor, and then it can be even closer to center.
This shutoff had been replaced with a new 1/4 turn valve with brass nipple through the wall.
Installation was by James Love of Love Plumbing & Remodel 206-949-5683
In some of the older Seattle homes, the old toilets had been wall mounted tank toilets.
Those typically are 14" rough-in and need a flange repair to use standard closet bolt connections at the flange.
Everything is on the truck for that.

[AnnisDad]

We have an 82-year-old house with an old (but probably not original) toilet in the powder room.
Its parts are shot, so we need to replace it. Unfortunately, the room is tiny.
We need a round-bowl toilet with a 14-inch rough-in. But all we see are elongated bowls or ultra-modern styles. Or they cost $1,100.
Yikes.
Got any suggestions?
http://www.terrylove.com/wc/toto/lloyd_handle.jpg
Lloyd handle

[Gary Swart]

See Terry's listing for Toto toilets. There are several that use a Unifit adapter that will fit them to a 14" rough-in. They aren't the cheapest in the Toto line, but they are sure a bunch less the $1100. These are elongated bowls (not sure if any are round) but they actually don't take much if any more space than most other brand of toilets with round bowls. Not only that, but you will have a superior toilet. Terry's prices are very reasonable and even his installation charges are less than most plumbers.

[AnnisDad]

Thanks, Gary. We were hoping for a Toto -- we've been happy with the performance of our other one (except for the worn-out flapper).
I've seen the Unifit adapter mentioned, but wouldn't that just put the toilet further away from the wall and take up more space in the room?

[Gary Swart]

No. The the Unifit adapter allows the toilet to set back just like a toilet on a standard rough-in. Since Terry lives in Bothell, it would be a good idea if you were to call him and discuss your situation with him directly. He can better explain how these adapters work and suggest the best model for you. There is a bit more to the installation of toilets with the Unifit than a standard flange, so you may want to have him do the installation. His phone number is on the home page of this forum.

[Terry]

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/toto/cst474_side.jpg
Toto Vespin II CST474CEFG with SS114 Softclose seat.
This bowl was installed on a 13-1/2" rough-in using the 14" Unifit adapter.
This toilet was installed in Seattle by us.

The Vespin comes with a standard 12" Unifit, but this was installed with a 14" unifit.
This allows us to slide the bowl back 2" closer to the wall.
There are a lot of homes built in Seattle that had 14" rough toilets.
The tanks were mounted on the wall, and connected to the bowls with chrome plated tube that bent between the two.

[Chris74]

All,

I'm in the same boat. I have limited space for depth from the back wall and a 14" rough-in that I can't change.

I've been laboring over my choices here and found this toilet that I thought I could get some feedback on.

It's 14" Rough-in
27" Depth!!
Round bowl and about $170.

Sterling
Windham™ 14" Rough-in Round-Front Toilet with Pro Force® Technology
Dimensions: 27" x 16-7/8" x 29"



You are reading the spec sheet wrong for the 14" Windham.

Round bowl, 29-1/4" plus 1" behind the tank = 30-1/4" from the back wall to end of bowl.

Elongated bowl, 31-1/4" plus 1" behind the tank = 32-1/4" from the back wall to end of bowl.
Terry Love

List price: $165.20 and up

Product #: 402014

http://sterlingplumbing.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/1022170_4.pdf

Any thoughts? The manufacturer site is here: http://sterlingplumbing.com (http://sterlingplumbing.com/toilets-and-bathroom-sinks/toilets/Windham-TM-Round-Front-Toilet-with-Pro-Force-R-Technology-402014-detail?productNumber=402014&resultId=-1998224156-0)

Thanks,
Chris

[Terry]

You are reading the spec sheet wrong for the 14" Windham.

Round bowl, 29-1/4" plus 1" behind the tank = 30-1/4" from the back wall to end of bowl.

Elongated bowl, 31-1/4" plus 1" behind the tank = 32-1/4" from the back wall to end of bowl.
Terry Love

You may as well get the 12" then, they use a 12" bowl with a thick tank, so the bowl is still a long ways into the room.
A round bowl Toto Drake round front would stick into the room 29-1/2", the round 14" Windham would stick out 30-1/4".

An elongated Toto Vespin with 14" Unifit would stick out only 28-3/4" from the back wall.

The Windham is a builder grade toilet.
I remove a lot of them from homes.
Not awful, but there are so many toilets out there that don't plug as often.

http://www.terrylove.com/images/toilet_14_rough2.jpg

On the left, would be an elongated TOTO bowl with 14" Unifit, on the right would be the elongated Sterling Windham 14"
Notice how much more leg room the TOTO has?

[Chris74]

I see what you mean. Thanks.

Take a look here, this is what I'm delaing with, obviously, the shorter the toilet depth, the better. I have trouble shelling out the $400 for the toto to gain an inch and a half.
http://4cpp.com/Bathroom_Drawing.jpg
Thanks!

[jadnashua]

How much is a toilet that rarely, if ever, gets clogged worth, especially if it is a once in 20-40 year purchase? Any males, and likely females in the household will appreciate an elongated toilet. Toto list prices are just that...few dealers sell them at list, so look around. I have a Vespin and a Carlyle in my home and over the 10-years or so, I don't think I've needed the plunger. Maybe once...

[Terry]

Any 12" round Toto will be 3/4" closer to the wall then the 14" round Windham.
You could pick up a round Dalton for $185 with the tall bowl.

The Windham is not a good bowl, I throw them away all the time.
But hey, you're the one with the plunger.

If we're comparing apples to apples, the Toto elongated Vespin is 28-3/4" verus the Sterling elongated at 32-1/4"
That's 3-1/2"
That's a lot.
I wouldn't have a round bowl in my home. I'm a guy.


Windham,
Exposed trapway
Round
Standard height
Washdown bowl instead of siphon, therefore it plugs more and is splashy
I haul these to the dump all the time.

http://www.terrylove.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10488&stc=1&d=1272468425

Sterling Windham 14"


Vespin II, CST474CEFG
Skirted bowl
Elongated
Universal height for comfort, 16-1/8"
Sanagloss to stay cleaner
High performance 3" flush valve and 2-1/8" trapway with rounded bends.
Of course it sells for more.

Vespin one, CST764SG
15-1/8" bowl height

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/toto/cst474_angle.jpg
Toto Vespin II

[Chris74]

I appreciate all the info. I have an elongated in my "man cave", but this is the main bathroom. The partition wall between the sink and tub is the killer, the space to walk between the wall and the toilet is what I'm trying to open up. Scraping by to get to the sink is the real hassle.

I don't think I want to put in a tall boy, 16 1/2-17" and my wife will be nagging that her feet don't touch the ground.

Depth is definitely the deciding factor here. You guys talk about the Toto like Al Bundy talked about his "Ferguson", so I'll take your word on it. If I could find something in the 26" depth, I'd be in hog heaven, but now I'm looking at 29-32...inches...mere inches.

Ok, Vepsin looks like the one then...gotta do it.

The 14" rough-in is the killer here. I have to check the Toto Unifit models, but you say the Vespin is the shortest depth model, I'll take your word. It's more work than I thought choosing the right bowl for the business.

Thanks, yet again!

Chris

[jadnashua]

Those Totos that use the Unifit adapter (Vespin is one of them), use exactly the same toilet, regardless of the 10, 12, or 14" rough-in. It comes with a 12" version, you have to buy extra the 14" version, and then throw away the 12" one. It would be nice if they packaged the adapter separately, but they include it in the box (12" is the most common). It is the adapter that adjusts the toilet to the various rough-ins. Thus, instead of a toilet that has a thicker or thinner tank, Toto just adjusts to the rough-in with the adapter...it always sits the same distance off the wall (nominally 3/4").

[Chris74]

I will now have to move the water line, but that's no big deal. I would prefer to have it just a straight chrome pipe coming out of the wall, but now I'll have to make it 90 to the left 3 inches and then 90 back out..

I saw that Terry doesn't deliver outside the Seattle area - Terry, wanna drive one to NJ? :rolleyes: I was looking at online vendors. I guess all I can do is give them a shot and pray that it arrives in one piece.

Well, thanks for showing me the light...

I was checking out those washlets on the Toto sight...interesting...that may be next. :)

Chris

[Terry]

The CST764SG can get by with 6.5" to the left of center on the shutoff
The CST474CEFG and get by with 5.5" to the left of center

If you 90 over on the shutoff, just use a short piece and then the shutoff.
You don't need to 90 back again.
One 90 el will be fine.

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/toto/flange_03.jpg

[Chris74]

I've been looking for a vendor that sells the Vespin II without raking me across the coals and I'm not having much luck. If I find one for $100 cheaper after I order one, then I'll feel like I flushed my money right down the toilet! (a little potty humor)

As for your comment 2 notes above this one, you mentioned the Vespin One - Bowl Height 15-1/8"? I thought they were 15".
However, I'm just going to pull the trigger on one today. Sanagloss is the way to go, right?

So much to talk and know about with toilets, who knew?

[Chris74]

Ok...I did it. You'd think I was buying a new car or something. It's just a toilet...right?

I went with the Vespin One, I ordered the soft-close seat as well because I read some reviews about how solid, comfortable and quiet they are and I got the 14" unifit adapter.

Now, I'm a fairly handy guy. I can sweat pipes, install electric, install tile, do dryway and trim work, etc. I'm not a master-anything or expert-anything, just generally handy. I'll post back from a DIYer's perspective for ease of installation for the Toto unifit models.

Terry: Your site is an awesome resource and I'm really greatful to you and all of your contributers for sharing the knowledge and expertise!

Chris

[Fox]

I have the limited space for depth from the back wall and a 14" rough-in that I can't change problem as well.

The specs for the ProFlo PF2200 series round bowl show a 27 3/4" depth from the back wall and I would add 2" to that for the 14" offset.

29 3/4" is only 1" more than the elongated Toto Vespin with 14" Unifit.

Am I figuring this correctly? I need two of these for a budget remodel and the ProFlo would save me allot of $.

Thanks for any information or suggestions.

[Fox]

On the left, would be a TOTO bowl with 14" Unifit, on the right would be the Sterling Windham 14"
Notice how much more leg room the TOTO has?

Is that a round bowl TOTO @ 28 3/4" on the left and an elongated Windham @ 32 1/4" in the photo above?

Oh, it is an elongated Vespin...

[Terry]

Yes, so again, the "elongated bowl" Toto takes up less space then a "round bowl" from someone else.

If you don't care about space, and money is important, you can always install a round bowl and have it set out from the wall about 3"

But if you want to pull a bowl back closer to the wall, and pick up "leg room" and space in the bathroom, then using the skirted Toto bowl with the 14" Unift is the only solution.

http://www.terrylove.com/images/toilet_14_rough2.jpg

On the left, would be an elongated TOTO bowl with 14" Unifit, on the right would be the elongated Sterling Windham 14"
Notice how much more leg room the TOTO has?

[Fox]

If you don't care about space, and money is important, you can always install a round bowl and have it set out from the wall about 3"

But if you want to pull a bowl back closer to the wall, and pick up "leg room" and space in the bathroom, then using the skirted Toto bowl with the 14" Unift is the only solution.

?

The ProFlo looks like it will set out from the wall 3/4" fitted with the tank for 14" offset, and be 29 3/4" from the back wall to end of bowl.

http://dar.proflo.com/darmanager/Query?PRODUCT_ID=902441&USE_TYPE=SPECIFICATION

29 3/4" is 1" greater than the elongated TOTO. Not nearly as dramatic as the 3 1/2" difference to the elongated Sterling.

I can purchase 4 ProFlos for less than 1 TOTO and a 14" unifit. The trade off; 1" less "leg room", a round bowl and I'm sure a lesser quality toilet.

Thanks for all this information, I'll report back if I have the ProFlo specs wrong.

[Terry]

Almost any round bowl will be something like 29.5 from the back wall on a 14" rough.
It doesn't really matter unless you are worried about leg room.

[Fox]

Leg room is exactly what I'm trying to maximize. And with the 14" rough it is an ugly game of inches.

Here is a list of 14" rough in toilets that maximize leg room, all round bowls.

Make/Model -Total depth - Distance from wall
Kohler/Wellworth - 29 5/8" - 3/4"
ProFlo/PF2200 - 29 3/4" - 3/4"
American Standard/Cadet - 30 1/4" - 1"
Sterling/Wiindham - 30 1/4 - 1"

If you know of one that is only 29.5" please let me know.

[Terry]

The Toto Drake round front is 29.5" on a 14" rough
CST743E or CST743S
I'm selling these for $199.99
But then you can get the Proflo for less.

The non Toto toilets mentioned above do not move the bowl back. They are standard 12" bowls set at 14", thus you wind up losing leg room. With some bathrooms, that's not an issue.

The reason this thread was here, was for people that wanted more leg room, which means either replumbing the bathroom, or finding a bowl that can be pulled back to 12"
Only the Skirted Toto bowls do that, but keep in mind that any toilet will fit on a 14", it's just that they set farther out into the room.

An elongated bowl set at 12" in the room gives you 2" more leg room when sitting down at 28-3/4" to end of bowl
Then a round bowl set at 14" that measures 29-1/2" to end of bowl.
The Proflo would lose 2-1/4" at 29-3/4" to end of bowl.
The A/S Cadet is even longer.

[Alan Muller]

I don't see the point of making a big fuss about a 14" tank. As noted, it doesn't move the bowl. So unless having the tank sit out from the wall really bothers you, just use a regular 12" toilet. Or use the Toto setup that actually positions the toilet correctly. But unless the china is actually cracked or has something jammed into the trapway, you can replace everything on most toilets pretty easily. Tank bolts, bowl/tank gasket, fill valve, flush valve, flapper, trip lever. You can get all this stuff for $20 or so at a decent hardware store or home center. (Of course, some toilets have unusual hardware or don't flush well or waste expensive water or you hate how it looks or whatever...) It's usually a lot easier to change all the trim on what you have than to haul in a new toilet and dispose of the the old one. And when you are done you'll know how it works!

[tjk045]

I have a few questions for you. After seaching online for days, you(Terry) seem to be the most "qualified" and maybe you can help me.
You listed Toto toilets that will work with 14" unifit. Is that ALL the Toto toilets that will move 2"? What can I do with a 12" unifit? How far will that move the toilet?
Ok, here's my situation...who ever built, worked on, "improved" on my house, they screwed up most of it. I'm redoing my bathroom. They had a homemade sinktop that extended over the back of the toilet. After removing it, I see why they added that hideous countertop. It covered the 3 1/2" gap behind the toilet. This is a pretty small bathroom and I would like to move it back to where it "should be". It's roughed in at 15 1/2"!!! Imagine that...with a 3 1/2" gap. Anyway, it's also a slab house. So it's not very moveable without busting up concrete. I can live with the "grand canyon" gap if I have to. And don't have a lot to spend right now. What are my options here? Besides leaving it "in the middle of the room"...I assume I have a standard 12" now.
What would a 12" Toto Carusoe with 12" unifit do in my situation? Do I need a 12" toilet, 14" unifit? Or do I have to get a 14" toilet and the 14" unifit? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Tim

[tjk045]

or anyone with any advise/knowledge of this situation...feel free to respond

[tjk045]

oh...and would a Toto round or elongated be better? The same? Any opinions?

[Terry]

Models from Toto that allow you to move the bowl back 2" with their 14" Unifit adapter (http://www.terrylove.com/wc/unifit.htm)are:
Vespin
Carlyle
Carrollton
Carolina
Lloyd
Pacifica
Soiree
Guinevere

[tjk045]

I guess I have another question. And it may be a stupid one, but here it is. Could I get a Toto unifit, in whatever size would work the best for me, and use it with any standard 12" toilet? or is there not the same room under other brands?

[tjk045]

Hello. Thanks for responding. So what does a 12" toilet with 12" unifit do?

[Terry]

The 12" toilet with the 12" unifit would not move. It would act and feel like a 12".
A 12" toilet with the 10" unifit could set out farther in the room by 2"
A 12" toilet with the 14" unifit would snuggle a little closer to the wall by 2"

Either way, 15-1/2" is a long ways out.

[tjk045]

Thank you very much. So there really isn't much difference in how far it would move back with a 12" toilet with 14" unifit and a 14" with a 14"?

[tjk045]

Ok...I think I might be missing something here. You listed again the Toto models that move the bowl back 2". I'm looking at one of the cheapest Totos I see. A 12" Carusoe with a 12" unifit. Could I buy that toilet and the 14" unifit and get the toilet back 2"?

[tjk045]

and yes, it is A LONG WAYS OUT. And it's literally driving me nuts. I'm about to build something over it to hide it!

[Terry]

The Caruso is not one of the bowls that use a unift.

You do realize that there are three unifits, and they they need a bowl that uses them. In your case, the 14" unift would move the bowl closer to the wall 2"

There is no such thing as a 14" bowl.
That is way something like a unifit is used to move the bowl back closer to the wall.

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/toto/unifit_choice.jpg

You can't use these with just any toilet. The bowl has to be designed to work with them. The one on the right is the 14"

[tjk045]

Oh...and I can't wait to tear into the bathtub. I'm sure I'll have 50 problems with that as well

[tjk045]

TOTO CST715 Round Carusoe Two Piece Toilet 1.6 GPF

Round Carusoe Two Piece Toilet 1.6 GPF

The TOTO 1.6 Gpf toilet received high ratings in independent laboratory performance tests. With a powerful and quiet flush design, the toilet also offers a large water surface.

Key Features
Round Front Bowl - C715
12" Unifit rough - in
Streamline Tank and Cover - ST706
Complete with tank trim and coupling components
Low consumption (6 Lpf / 1.6 Gpf) gravity flushing action
Tank fittings, complete with flush valve, ballcock, and chrome - plated trip lever included
Five Year Limited Warranty
NOTE:Seat is not included. Refer Recommended Accessories for Toilet Seats

Product SKUs Product Options
C715-03 Bone
ST706-03 Bone
C715-11 Colonial White
ST706-11 Colonial White
C715-01 Cotton White
ST706-01 Cotton White
C715-12 Sedona Beige
ST706-12 Sedona Beige





TOTO Warranty
CST715 Product Specifications
CST715 Product Install Guide

Bowl Height 14.63
Bowl Shape Round
Collection Carusoe
Configuration 2 Piece
DA No
Depth 26.13
Flush Type Gravity
Gallons Per Flush 1.60
Height 28.38
Installation Type Floor Mounted
Lever Placement Left
Material Vitreous China
Rough In 12
Seat Included No
Trapway 2.13
Trip Lever Placement Left
Width 19.50












TOTO Round Carusoe Two Piece Toilet 1.6 GPF - CST715
1.0 (based on 1 review)
Ratings Distribution

5 Stars
(0)
4 Stars
(0)
3 Stars
(0)
2 Stars
(0)
1 Stars
(1)

Low water level in bowl
Poor flushing performance
Best Uses

Comments about TOTO Round Carusoe Two Piece Toilet 1.6 GPF - CST715:

This is a bad toilet. The claim to "large water surface" is a joke. Ours had very little water in the bowl. I called Toto tech support and they had us measure the surface area, which was 6" x 7" as opposed to the 8.5" x 10" they said it should have. They sent a new bowl. No better. Also, you have to flush it twice almost every time for anything solid. It has a very weak flush. I had heard great things about Toto in general and we have a Drake that works fine, but we are extremely disappointed in this model, as well as the misleading claims about it on this website.

Bottom Line No, I would not recommend this to a friend

(1 of 1 customers found this review helpful)

[tjk045]

Wow...that copied more than I expected. Anyway, half way down that post, it claims 12" unifit...is that not true?

[tjk045]

Ok...let me put it this way. If this was your house, and you didnt want to spend 4-500 on a toilet...what would you do? Leave it and "hide" it? Or do you have(hopefully) a better solution?

[tjk045]

I've been in this house for 12 years. Never had a problem with the toilet. Still don't except that it's somewhat ugly and is 3 1/2" from the wall. Which I never noticed and didn't bother me until I started tearing things apart

[tjk045]

But unless I'm missunderstanding you, I have to buy a 12" or 14" rough in(one of the ones you listed) and a 14" unifit, or I have to leave it as is

[tjk045]

I'm about to tear up the concrete the way I feel now

[Joe the Plumber]

I think you should tear up the concrete. Just smash it up.
By the way, why would you install a Carusoe when you can get a Drake for 200 bones.
Neither of those are helping your 15.5 rhough
I say jsut tere it out.

[jadnashua]

The toilets that are designed to use the Unifit adapter all come with the 12" one. If you want to move the bowl, you throw that away and also buy the size unifit you need (in your case the 14"). By using this longer adapter, it pushes the whole thing back towards the wall an additional 2" (from the stock 12" one). There's no credit for the 12" unifit, so you end up with a piece to trash. Seems annoying, but that's the way they do it. The II versions (of those available) have better bowl wash than the 'original' versions (without a version number in the product name). But, I have two Totos with the Unifit (a Vespin and a Carlyle), and both work great. This flexibility costs as they are a bit more complex to manufacture, and they actually have some style. If the gap isn't that big, and you want to save some money, the Drake or Drake II are good performers, but you'll have at least that much gap, if not more. As Terry mentioned, the toilet must be made to use the Unifit, and only some Totos do - it is not a universal adapter that can be used with other brands or models except those designed for it.

Most people don't remodel their bathrooms very often, and this decision will stick with you for probably 15-20 years or more, so over that time, it makes some sense to bite the bullet and do something you'll like. The cost to move the flange would be much more than a toilet that would move it closer to the wall (a Toto with a Unifit). But, you'd still have close to 2" gap as if it was perfect, there's normally a 3/4" gap. Yours is 1.5" further out that even that non-standard standard 14", so it should be 2.25", if you measured correctly. You can fudge the attachment maybe a 1/4-inch or so, and probably get it to 2", but unlikely to get more.

[tjk045]

Thanks for your replies....it's time to tear it up!!!

[calvin]

My house is quirky, and my only bathroom is quite small. I'm planning to replace my Homart toilet, which seems to be original to the house, because it gathers so much condensation in the summer that it's rotted the plywood subfloor. Our mixing valve can't handle extreme heat and humidity, so now we're going to try an insulated tank.

I was set to order a Toto Drake (round seat) until I realized I have a 15" rough in. From the discussions here, I understand I could theoretically use that model anyway; however, it would leave no leg room.

From my research, none of the Toto toilets is available with both 14" unifit AND an insulated tank. Is that so? If that's the case, would you please suggest the best alternative solution?

So far, it seems my choices are to re-rough in the plumbing, which sounds expensive, or to go with the Gerber Avalanche, which seems unpopular. What say you?

Thanks for your thoughts on the matter.

[Gary Swart]

Old toilets used 3.5 gallons of water per flush which totally emptied the tank. The incoming water was very cold and this caused condensation especially in very warm climates. New low flow toilets use on 1/2 the water in the tank, and even less in the newer 1.2 gpf models. Since the water in the tank is at room temperature, and only half of it is used, the refill is only half a tank and than mixes with the already room temperature water. The result is no condensation. So, an insulated tank is really not needed.

[calvin]

So, an insulated tank is really not needed.

I've heard that and hope it's so, but I'm hesitant to do a new toilet and floor only to learn that we needed an insulated tank after all. It's a relatively small investment at this point for peace of mind, esp. since some materials we're considering (marmoleum and beadboard) would not fare well with standing water.

[Terry]

A lot of the old toilets I pull out have molde on the bottom. Those tanks emptied out and refilled with cold water.
I don't see that problem on the new toilets we're installing.

I have sold a few insulated tanks, mainly in Alaska.

[calvin]

I have sold a few insulated tanks, mainly in Alaska.

From my visits to the low-humidity NW, I suspect that New England summers are closer to Alaskan ones than to those in WA or OR.

[Terry]

Well I haven't had anyone posting from the East Coast saying that they are having sweating issues with new toilets either. The old five gallon tanks were the worst.

When you're only pulling 1.5 gallons from the pipes in the home, it would be rare that you would even have cold water.

[jadnashua]

If the toilet is flushed repeatedly, even with insulation, the tank can get cold enough to sweat. If you have a deep well, the incoming water may be cold enough, but it gets tempered by sitting in the bladder pressure tank. I don't have sweating, but then I run my central a/c throughout the summer, which helps by lowering the humidity levels. But, if you don't run the a/c, the standing water in the tank will be hotter, so even when you mix cold water with it on a refill, it may not drop to the dew point. If you're remodeling, consider running hot to the toilet and then using a tempering valve so it stays above the dew point...then, your choice of toilet expands considerably.

[calvin]

Thanks for those suggestions.

Unfortunately, we don't have central A/C nor are we planning a remodel per se. We started off just trying to fix the rotten subfloor, and it's turned out to be much more complicated and potentially expensive than we expected.

We did add a tempering valve last month (that's the same as a mixing valve, right?), which solved the problem until the serious humidity hit last week. I think it would work more effectively if the hot water heater were closer to the bathroom, but that's something we're interested in changing.

[jadnashua]

Yeah, the last week or so the heat and humidity were really nasty! One nice thing that may resolve the long distance to the WH is a retrofit hot water recirculation system. There are a bunch of them out there, fairly easy to install, and should solve that problem and make hot to the shower and sinks faster, too.

[calvin]

That's something to consider--thanks!

[crcurtis]

Hi Terry,

I was posting my problem in another thread - http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?44131-Toto-Aquia-vs.-Aquia-II-vs.-Aquia-III&p=317765#post317765 (obviously the wrong thread), however upon checking your comments in this thread it appears that you are dealing with my situation.

For that Aquia II Toilet to be over 3 3/4" from the wall, I must assume the rough in is at least 14" away from the wall, which means I need to use one of the above or something similar that uses the Unifit 14" adapter. I will have the plumber pull the toilet and measure.

So:
1. Am I likely to correct that the rough-in is out this far?

2. Which toilet should I go with. I have Carlyle II's in my other units BUT they are more costly. BTW, in Vancouver we need to use either Dual Flush or the High Performance 1.2GPF. I only ever use Toto as I find for the $ nobody comes close to quality; though I do not want to start a discussion on this subject :) If I have to upgrade to the Carlyle II I guess I will have to charge the plumber for the screw up & the upcharge??

[Terry]

That's pretty far out. I would say at least 14"

Seattle pricing on the Vespin II is $399.99 plus $49.99 for the 14" Unifit.
That gets you into Watersense with the 1.28, skirted bowl that allows moving the bowl back closer to the wall, Sanagloss and double cyclone. It also has the taller height like the Aquia III.
It sounds like a win to me.

[Gary Swart]

Take it from someone who knows, you can't beat Terry's delivery service! You don't need to pull the toilet to measure your rough-in. Just measure from the finished wall to the flange bolts.

[consumerac]

Take it from someone who knows, you can't beat Terry's delivery service! You don't need to pull the toilet to measure your rough-in. Just measure from the finished wall to the flange bolts.
if measure from wall to flange bolt and it is 14" do I need a 12" or 14" rough in toilet? The person that came to auger from plumbing company said toilet needs to be replaced probably and to get a 12" rough in toilet. Insight would be appreciated.

[Terry]

If you have 14" from the bolts to the wall, then you can use either the 12, which sticks out from the wall a ways, or a 14" rough.

[jadnashua]

Most toilets are designed with some gap behind them to the wall when they are on the 'design' rough-in. SO, if you take a 12" rough-in toilet and move it out 2", the gap will be at LEAST 2", and could be nearly double that as some 12" rough toilets can have anywhere from 1/4" to 1-3/4" gap behind them. If the extra space behind and the sticking out an extra 2" isn't a problem, then a 12" toilet rough-in will work just as well as that same toilet on a 14" rough-in. Not all toilets are created equal. Toto tends to be very consistent with good design and easily found parts, if they ever need it.

[JLCREMODELING]

Old existing toilet was a American Standard 4049 circa 1970's - From what I can find its depth was 26" (Unsure if that was from the wall or the size of the toilet).

The owners have an in swinging door into the bathroom. I noticed that the old door had been notched out just a 1/2" on the interior side of the bathroom so the door would miss the bowl/seat.

Rough in is 14"
Floor is tile over a thick mortar bed so an offset flange is not an option plumbing wise.
Owners do not want to change the swing of the door. They would like to find a toilet that fits this area.
The owners had pulled the old toilet and put it by the trash cans and it was hauled away so fixing the old toilet is not an option.
A 12" Rough in is not an option as the homeowners would not like to see the gap behind the toilet to the wall.

I have spent hours searching around to find a toilet that will fit here but am running out of options for a 14" Rough In.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!

Thanks for your time.

[jadnashua]

You need to know the distance from the finished wall (not baseboard) to the door edge, then view lots of spec sheets. Most 14" toilets are just 12" ones with thicker tanks to fill in the gap. Some Totos that use the UniFit adapter, use the same toilet and use a different adapter to move the toilet, so their length remains the same, regardless of the rough-in. But most of those are likely too long (they're all elongated) to fit.

A 12" rough toilet would just stick out 2" more than normal, it won't be shorter.