When they come to replace my panel...

Ian Gills · Sep 15, 2009

...one day how easy will it be for them to connect the circuits up to the new one?

Do they often have to extend circuits by using lots of metal boxes?

I want to try and avoid that so always put some slack in any new wiring I do near the panel. Is that a good idea?

I found a couple of wing nuts in my panel splicing wires to extend them. That's not allowed is it?

Do you like the way I speak in questions?

Speedy Petey · Sep 15, 2009

1) Hopefully for them it will be easy.

2) Not usually.

3) Yes, but not too much.

4) It certainly is. It's better than a bunch of boxes over your panel.

5) Do you like it?

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

Ian Gills · Sep 15, 2009

Thanks Petey.

I feel better now.

Can't wait to get the new panel installed with a new riser, once all my new little bits of wiring are done.

The quote I got for this was a year or so ago. I hope the price has not changed that much. It was only a few thousand which I think is very reasonable for a service upgrade.

I wish I could do it myself, but this is just one of those where it is absolutely impossible to DIY safely and legally.

Scuba_Dave · Sep 15, 2009

100a or 200a ?

1st thing I did with my 200a is install a 100a sub

They installed my 200a literally right beside my old 200a (corroded)
Some of the circuits just need to be run down the next joist to free up some length

Alectrician · Sep 15, 2009

How easy will it be for them to connect the circuits up to the new one?

I do it for a living and there is generally nothing easy about it.

Do they often have to extend circuits by using lots of metal boxes?

I minimize jboxes as much as possible.

I want to try and avoid that so always put some slack in any new wiring I do near the panel. Is that a good idea?

To a certain extent, more is better.

I found a couple of wing nuts in my panel splicing wires to extend them. That's not allowed is it?

Sure it is.

Do you like the way I speak in questions

That's kind of the point here.

Jimbo · Sep 16, 2009

Reminds me of the old song: " They're coming to take me away..hey hey"

Billy_Bob · Sep 16, 2009

So far as projects like this go, there are "good days", "so so days", and "bad days"!

Sometimes there are "unforeseen problems". You start pulling things apart and find a "problem". And then you spend a lot of extra time fixing that problem.

Like maybe you have a wood outside wall, pull the old panel off and there is a bunch of dry rot there which needs to be fixed before proceeding.

Or you suddenly realize you need one certain part which you don't have, then need to go to the shop/store and get that. (I live in a rural area, so that shoots 3 hours out of my day!)

But sometimes everything goes smoothly, no problems, you have all the parts, everything done quicker than you thought it would take.

Be sure to offer the electrician water or soda pop. And tell him where the restroom is if he needs to use it. He will instantly like you!

hj · Sep 16, 2009

wire nuts

A long time ago an inspector told me, "No wire nuts in the panel. It is not a junction box". Times may have changed.

nickdel · Sep 16, 2009

Billy_Bob said:
So far as projects like this go, there are "good days", "so so days", and "bad days"!

Sometimes there are "unforeseen problems". You start pulling things apart and find a "problem". And then you spend a lot of extra time fixing that problem.

Like maybe you have a wood outside wall, pull the old panel off and there is a bunch of dry rot there which needs to be fixed before proceeding.

Or you suddenly realize you need one certain part which you don't have, then need to go to the shop/store and get that. (I live in a rural area, so that shoots 3 hours out of my day!)

But sometimes everything goes smoothly, no problems, you have all the parts, everything done quicker than you thought it would take.

Be sure to offer the electrician water or soda pop. And tell him where the restroom is if he needs to use it. He will instantly like you!

I've done a 200a service in 11 hours, and I've done it in 4. It really does depend on how things turn out once you're on site and start pulling things apart.

nickdel · Sep 16, 2009

hj said:
A long time ago an inspector told me, "No wire nuts in the panel. It is not a junction box". Times may have changed.

I'm pretty sure that splices are only supposed to be made in a panel if there is a specific area in the panel designated for that purpose. Your standard main residential panel doesn't have such a space.

Ian Gills · Sep 16, 2009

It's a 100 amp panel. I am hoping they will take it off and replace with a 200 amp and replace the riser and meter box.

Here's some more questions.

I have a Square D QO panel. Will they just replace it with another Square D QO panel and use the existing breakers (if those breakers are to code)?

Will they expect me to hang from the live wire while they disconnect the riser? I weigh over 250 pounds and doubt the hot wire which is suspended about 20 feet up could take my weight.

Speedy Petey · Sep 16, 2009

hj said:
A long time ago an inspector told me, "No wire nuts in the panel. It is not a junction box". Times may have changed.

Your inspector was wrong.

Speedy Petey · Sep 16, 2009

nickdel said:
I'm pretty sure that splices are only supposed to be made in a panel if there is a specific area in the panel designated for that purpose. Your standard main residential panel doesn't have such a space.

Incorrect. "Pretty sure" does not cut it.
Read the section pertaining to this and you'll see.

It says as long as there is space for the purpose. Not as long as there is a dedicated or designated space.

Scuba_Dave · Sep 16, 2009

Yes they should replace it with a Square D panel & re-use the breakers
Might want to verify with them that it is what you WANT them to do
Is your service wire rated for 200a?
If it's not I'd still put in a 200a panel & feed it with 100a for now
If the meter has to be replaced I'd also make sure it is capable of handling 200a

What work have you requested they do?
Make sure you have everything in writing so you know what to expect & they know what you want

I had a generator running for an hour or so just to keep my fish tank running

Ian Gills · Sep 16, 2009

Thanks Dave. They are a trusted local firm so I trust them.
They'll be no "I only asked for an addition but you built a bloody house on the side of house", believe me.

My service is 200 amps but the riser is deteriorating and the meter case is only rated for 100 amps. The panel is also 100 amps.

What can I expect to see during the time they fit all this and the inspector/electricity company do their thing? Obviously the electrician will not be able to change over the new riser they fit will they?

Scuba_Dave · Sep 16, 2009

I wasn't home when they did mine
But everythingw as arranged in advance between Electrician, Inspector & POCO for timing

Since he was able to connect the new panel in advance that cut down on the time without power

Basically the new Meter base was in & wired to the new panel
New wire (had it buried) was run & hanging at the pole
Electrician shut everything down & moved circuits over
POCO came & connected at the pole & installed the new meter
Inspector was there within the hour to Inspect
All OK'd & it was powered up

I think in total power was out for maybe 2-3 hours tops

POCO as fas as I know has to make the final connections
All went as planned - no surprises or problems

Ian Gills · Sep 16, 2009

hanks Dave. I guess you'll be upgrading again soon too. I doubt 200 amps will be enough for your mansion when its finished. Perhaps you could fire up the old 200 amp panel again and get a second service?

Scuba Dave's house and addition cannot be seen when you come down the road, but they sure as heck can be seen from space.

T

Alectrician · Sep 16, 2009

A long time ago an inspector told me, "No wire nuts in the panel. It is not a junction box". Times may have changed.

Times haven't changed. There are still inspectors that pull rules out of their southernmost orifices.

Scuba_Dave · Sep 16, 2009

Actually the old 200a will be going in the addition as a 100a sub

I'm competing with the Great Wall of China

You know that Christmas movie (Deck the Halls) where Danny DeVito was trying to light up his house with enough Christmas lites to be seen from space?
That was based on my house

Here in a nite shot you can see my house lighting up MA on the east coast south of Boston:

nickdel · Sep 17, 2009

Speedy Petey said:
Incorrect. "Pretty sure" does not cut it.

It says as long as there is space for the purpose. Not as long as there is a dedicated or designated space.

Well, if "pretty sure" doesn't cut it, neither does, "as long as there is a space," not when the code is very specific. So let's be more specific. "Space for the purpose" means that the space for wires in the panel cannot be filled by conductors to more than 40% of the cross-sectional area at any cross-section of this "space." And, further, that the conductors, splices and taps cannot fill more than 75% of this cross-sectional "space."

Now, I'm pretty sure, Speedy Petey, that no electrician has ever walked into someone's house, measured out and calculated the available cross-sectional area inside a panel, then determined the total cross-sectional area of the conductors, then made sure that the cross-sectional area of the conductors was within 40% of the total cross-sectional area of the panel, then determined the cross-sectional area of all the splices and taps, added that number to the total cross-sectional area of the conductors, and then made sure that this new total was within 75% of the total cross-sectional area available in the panel. (At least not in this country. I heard that the electricians in England are more clever than us, though.)

So maybe it's just easier to say don't make splices in a panel.

Cross-sectional!

When they come to replace my panel...

Users who are viewing this thread

Senior Robin Hood Guy

Licensed Electrical Contractor

Paid Advertisement

Senior Robin Hood Guy

Extreme DIY Homeowner

DIY Senior Member

Plumber

In the Trades

Master Plumber

New Member

New Member

Senior Robin Hood Guy

Licensed Electrical Contractor

Licensed Electrical Contractor

Extreme DIY Homeowner

Senior Robin Hood Guy

Extreme DIY Homeowner

Senior Robin Hood Guy

DIY Senior Member

Extreme DIY Homeowner

New Member

Similar threads