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View Full Version : Consumer Reports Recommended toilet, Gerber DF-21-318 a big Flop!



Terry
07-17-2009, 01:51 PM
Consumer Reports in the August 2009 issue picks the Gerber Dual Flush as their top choice for dual flush toilets.

However, we no longer sell the Gerber with WDI Dual Flush combination.
We have had to replace more than 40% of the tanks in the first year of production due to failure of the actuator mechanism.

They are a piece of junk.

Shame on CR for not doing your homework.

This dual flush tank has been on the market for a year now.
It's a design that should have never left the factory.
If Consumer Reports had any feeling for the consumer, they would have given this model a "Don't buy" rating.

If you buy a Gerber Ultraflush, don't get the dual flush.
The 1.1 Flushmate or the 1.6 Flushmate would be a better choice then the Dual 1.1/1.6 made in China that is failing too often. When 40% fail in the first year, that is ridiculous

Not recommended
EcoFlush (http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30226)
WDI Technology
Gerber DF-21-318
Gerber DF-21-312
Gerber DF-21-302
Mansfield 148-119
Mansfield EcoFlush
Vortens Vienna 3113-3436

Reader Review
07-30-2009, 12:26 PM
http://www.terrylove.com/wc/gerber/wdi_ecoflush_inside.jpg
Pictures of the WDI EcoFlush tanks that are going bad.

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/gerber/wdi_ecoflush_1.jpg
WDI Technology EcoFlush

Reader Review
09-18-2009, 12:13 PM
I just talked to Mike at Cascade Water about consumer complaints on toilets.

The toilet with the most complaints is the Gerber Ultraflush DF-21-318 dual flush.

That coincides with my experience too.

Consumer Reports gives the Gerber DF-21-318 it's highest grade, and the rest of us think that it's junk.

The folks reporting to Cascade Water and the folks reporting to Love Plumbing & Remodel realize that the pressure tank has problems.
The Gerber dual flush by WDI is not lasting.

DIYourselfer
11-22-2009, 08:40 PM
I just installed the Mansfield 148-119 a few weeks ago. I thought it had the flushmate technology. I wish I had seen this earlier.

What is the warranty on this and is mansfield responsible for the warranty? Does a part have to be replaced or does the whole pressure tank have to be replaced?

Thanks in advance,

Joe

Terry
11-22-2009, 09:26 PM
Does a part have to be replaced or does the whole pressure tank have to be replaced?



I've been replacing the entire tank.

DIYourselfer
11-23-2009, 12:16 PM
I've been replacing the entire tank.


Do you replace it with a Flushmate unit? I see a full replacement kit from Flushmate runs about $130. I would see no reason to put back the same crappy unit, even if it is warrantied.

G60
11-23-2009, 04:07 PM
Consumer reports is good for some things but they have gone way WAY overboard on the "green."

People should be concerned with the was e of clean water and they should be informed and make behavioral and purchase decisions with the health of the planet as a factor.

But I recently studied their clothes washing machine recommendations vs what I could garner from asking friends and neighbors and reading of actual experiences with given models and I am convinced that rather than just taking the green aspects of of an appliance or fixture into account and giving it a specific grade in that column, they are giving the green aspects a huge weight in general ratings.

So with front loading washers, two big aspects that result in the most returns and dissatisfaction, a) smells from mold or mildew, and b) vibration, are now catching consumer reports by surprise as major issues, not to mention that some of the highest rated machines do not clean or rinse that well, or even have decent records on reliability and repair costs.!

I am no expert on toilets but I bet the same thing is happening.

WDI-Gerber
11-24-2009, 01:31 PM
Though we respect your opinion, we have a few corrections to the information regarding Gerber's Dual Flush toilets and the WDI flushmometer tank. The comments below come directly from WDI with some input from Gerber Plumbing Fixtures.

The web site lists WDI’s Eco-Flush B8100 Dual Flush pressure assist system as “Not Recommended” in conjunction with the Gerber Dual Flush toilet due to complaints about the Flush Mechanism breaking. Gerber’s Ultra Dual Flush toilet is a product within a product. WDI has made adjustments to that system and provides a review of these changes below which includes modifications made to the actuator mechanism to correct this problem.

We welcome you to re-evaluate this product. Please let us know where we can send a sample so you can make your own assessment. If you deem appropriate, we would appreciate your updating your website to include the most current product information.

Brief background:

The Eco-Flush system was created 6-years ago by focusing on making the unit easier to flush and increasing the overall performance of the toilet. Additionally, test results show the Eco-Flush to be quieter than pressure-assist units by other manufacturers.

Eco-Flush incorporates a “feather touch” activation system which requires very little force to operate and is fully ADA compliant. Unfortunately, the original flush actuator mechanism was designed for traditional use, not “foot flushing” and other rigorous flushing techniques sometimes used in commercial applications. As soon as this issue was brought to our attention we immediately reinforced our Flush Activation System and have had very good results ever since.

Current:

We understand that there are still units in the marketplace with our original Flush Activation System, but our Technical Support Team is on hand to send out replacement parts that are easily installed by the business owner or homeowner. If you or any customers ever have any questions or concerns regarding Eco-Flush, they can contact our Technical Support Team directly at 800-391-9821. This phone number is also printed on a label that is affixed to every Eco-Flush unit so we are always just a phone call away. Our experienced team is available Monday – Friday 8:00 am to 5:00 pm PST and is able to trouble shoot problems over the phone and then provide any necessary parts. ECO-Flush proudly stands behind our 10-year warranty and we have tens of thousands of satisfied customers.

The Eco-Flush Dual Flush system is the first and only Dual Flush Pressure Assist System available in the world. It is designed to flush 4 liters of water for liquid waste and 6 liters of water for solid waste by simply moving the flush lever in the “down” or “up” position. However, Eco-Flush also offers 1.1 GPF and 1.6 GPF models to fit a wide variety of pressure assisted toilets.

At Eco-Flush we strive to produce the highest quality pressure assist systems available in the market. We constantly strive to improve our products and listen very closely to all issues that come from actual users. It is only by listening to your customers that you can truly become a better company.

We would welcome the opportunity to discuss these issues with you in greater detail so that you once again gain the confidence to recommend the Eco-Flush Dual Flush system to your readers. We can be reached directly at 949-250-4576.

Terry
11-24-2009, 10:00 PM
the original flush actuator mechanism was designed for traditional use, not “foot flushing” and other rigorous flushing techniques sometimes used in commercial applications.


I never sold or installed any of these for commercial applications.
They were sold to home owners trying to be Green.

I'm sure they weren't flushing toilets in their own home with their feet.
Like you say, it takes very little finger pressure to make them flush.
And I guess, very little can be too much.

Since WDI is aware of the problem,
Is there a recall on the old units?
Have you pulled the bad stock and replaced them with the "better" parts?
How would anyone know if they have an "improved" tank, or if they have the "bad" tank?
Is it a model number change?



The WDI Flushmometer is not the same company as Flushmate.
WDI is owned by Globe Union of China
These are two very separate companies.

Reader Review
12-07-2009, 10:48 AM
Hi Terry

We bought a couple of the “Consumer reports” highly rated Gerber toilets from you. I do want to thank you for the prompt replacement tanks that failed 3 times during the first year. On your blog I saw that WDI bragged about better parts on newer models. Since we have one of the two that appears to on its way to malfunctioning again what parts are available to make them better as they fail ?? Any help is appreciated

Bill
Construction Manager


If you or any customers ever have any questions or concerns regarding Eco-Flush,
they can contact our Technical Support Team directly at 800-391-9821.

hoodsmom
01-28-2010, 11:51 AM
We're have a problem with the handle on our dual-flush unit. EcoFlush sent us a flush valve control replacement part which we're going to replace as soon as my husband's got a weekday off (so we can call EcoFlush if we run into problems). Terry, in your experience does replacing the flush valve control do the trick?

Reader Review
03-14-2010, 01:18 PM
Terry,

We have a problem with our toilets, and my online research led me to your plumbing forums. When I realized that you were right next door (we’re on Hollywood Hill in Woodinville), I thought I would reach out to you for advice on the problem and assistance in resolving it.

In our house in Colorado, we put in Gerber Ultra Flush toilets, and we were consistently happy with them. When we moved back to Woodinville in 2008, we did some remodeling on the house that we bought. That work included placing Gerber Dual Flush toilets everywhere. We’re happy with the performance of these toilets, at least when they perform. But we’ve found (as apparently many others have also found) that sometimes the toilet just won’t flush. Lift or press the handle, and nothing happens. I have always eventually been able to get the toilet to flush, but I don’t actually know what I’m doing to get it to work. I just try a lot of different things, and eventually it flushes. And the problem is getting worse. The toilet in the master bath has been getting into this state several times a week lately. I worry that it’s about to quit permanently. Others around the house have (so far) only had occasional malfunctions. (Fortunately, not when guests are here.)

My questions to you are: Can this situation be resolved without replacing the toilet? Or should we just switch to some other low-flow toilet? And if we’re replacing, do we have to replace the entire toilet, or can we just replace the back? That is, would it be easier to switch back to Ultra Flush than to switch to some other option? (By the way, two of the five toilets have Toto heated seats.) Finally, if we’re going to make changes, should we do all five toilets at once? Are the others eventually going to fail, like the one in the master bath?

Thanks in advance,

Chuck L
Redmond WA

Terry
03-14-2010, 01:29 PM
Chuck,
I quit selling the dual flush tanks by WDI.
You could switch them to the 1.6 gallon tanks with the Flushmate unit.
Those have been working much better.
The Flushmate tank is made in Detroit Michigan.
The WDI dual flush is made in China.

If you were replacing the entire toilet, then the Toto line has been working much better.

If you can talk to people that sold you the toilets into swapping tanks, that would be you most cost effective way to go.
Otherwise, I would look into the Toto Drake.
Better performance then the Gerber line, for less money, and better looking porcelain.

Jake1157
04-09-2010, 08:41 AM
Hi Terry,

I am a plumber here in Calgary. About four years ago, my wholesaler recommended the Mansfield EcoFlush toilet to me. The WC'c in my own home were not working well so I exchanged all of them for the EcoFlush units. Although I found them very noisy, scaring my youngest girl and always enticing comments from house guests, they simple were the best flushing toilet I had ever used. They never plugged and the self cleaning action was the best I had seen in a long time. I was ready to recommend them to my builders and then they started to act up. Like other posters on this site, I usually could get them going again but was never sure of what I did. Finally two of the four that I had bought would not work so the wholesaler gave me two new tanks. After installation, all four of them worked well until last week. Suddenly, another one of my toilets just wouldn't flush. I have all kinds of replacement parts so I took the whole thing apart and replaced everything. Once put back together, it was working good as new. Two days later, it craped out on me again. I haven't been able to get it going since.

What bugs me the most is that I have no clue how to properly service the unit. I can take it apart and put it back together but I don't know what to fix or if how to determine what part is faulty. I've asked the wholesaler to have a representative contact me or send me a troubleshooting guide on the tank but have received no help. I also wrote to to WDI asking for advise and some help diagnosing and repairing the problem. Did not receive a response. Next up, call the 1-800 number. These toilets are not cheap and I have a lot invested in them. Roughly $400.00 a crack times 4. I would rather repair them than replace them.

If you have any ideas on repairing the units, I'd like to hear them.

Deb T
04-14-2010, 07:44 AM
We have this toilet and it worked for about two months, then stopped flushing reliably. Called the company and they sent a new flush mechanism. Very prompt service. Because of the shape of our tank, it was not an easy task to replace this part. Would have to remove all of the insides to replace the flush mechanism. So, we tried just removing the two little caps on it and replacing the springs inside with the springs that came in the new unit. It worked! Flushed reliably again for about 3 months. Now, back to never knowing if it will flush. If we take off the caps, the toilet will flush while the cap is off, seemingly from some kind of relation to the spring action being released. My husband wants to just replace the toilet. I am going to try to find a source for the springs and see if replacing them regularly will solve the problem. Just guessing, I suppose, but for our unit the springs definitely seem to be a factor.

MFfan310
04-17-2010, 09:00 AM
Oh boy, another toilet to avoid...

Looks like American Standard is now using the WDI EcoFlush single-flush (http://www.buildinggreen.com/auth/article.cfm/2010/1/1/Cool-Products-From-Greenbuild-2009-An-Expo-Floor-Tour/) in their new-design 1.1 gpf pressure-flush Yorkville PA and Cadet PA models. (The 1.6 still uses a Sloan Flushmate, as does the currently not-redesigned Glenwall). I find this funny... WDI is owned by Gerber/Danze parent Globe Union Group (which is actually based in Taiwan, though a lot of their plants are in mainland China), and American Standard Brands is cross-subsidizing a competitor in the process. Though, to be fair, Crane Plumbing (another American Standard brand) has utilized WDI EcoFlush in their single and dual-flush pressure flush toilets for a while.

Speaking of the EcoFlush, one found a leaky Gerber DF-28-380 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kelly_hirano/3246590378/) at a well-known hotel in Vegas. Not exactly the best place for leaks.

Terry
05-03-2010, 04:10 PM
It looks like Costco is now selling the EcoFlush too.
Homeowners can't seem to keep the tanks working though.
I quit selling any toilets with this WDI pressure assist tank.

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/costco/eco_flush_parts.jpg

Here is the Costco toilet now being sold with this Lemon.

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/costco/costco_foremost_279602.jpg
Costco dual flush comes with a WDI EcoFlush pressure tank.
Homeowners are still asking how to fix them six months later.


If you or any customers ever have any questions or concerns regarding Eco-Flush, they can contact our Technical Support Team directly at 800-391-9821.

One more toilet to avoid.

We no longer sell any toilet with the WDI Dual Flush combination.
We have had to replace more than 40% of the tanks in the first year of production due to failure of the actuator mechanism.

They are a piece of junk.

If someone wants pressure assist, make sure it has a Flushmate inside.
The WDI EcoFlush is not made by Flushmate.

Reader Review
11-16-2010, 11:58 AM
Support Drags This Down
Pros: like the chair height feature., like the 2 flush options.
Cons: poor documentation for installation., next to no information on the eco-flush mechanism., poor customer service., slow parts replacement

Model Number: 279598

"Hard to provide a really good review as the toilet broke down after one week and we're still waiting on a replacement part. I do like the chair height - it's easier for my wife to get seated and then up again. It can be tough with a bad back and a regular low toilet. We like the water saver concept - a lift of the handle does a 1.1 gallon flush for smaller jobs, and a push downward does the full 1.6 gallon flush. But this is where we've run into trouble. After less than a week, the toilet would no longer flush. We called the Foremost customer support number on the printed documentation, but they obviously had no idea what I was talking about. I guess they finally figured out that we had the 'Eco-flush' model and referred us to a different phone number for a company in CA - ( that runs on Pacific Standard Time - so don't call early from the east). My call went to an answering machine and I was instructed to leave information and they'd call back. No return call. So I called again and got to speak to a support person. Eddie gave me a couple of things to check, and I agreed to call him back. Guess what? Answering machine again. Left message - no call back. Called again - now on day 3 with no toilet in the master bath - and talked to support again. They decided to send a part; we were told they would Fedex it right out. Nothing the next day, nothing the day after, long Memorial day weekend, nothing the day after. Another call to support. Did you guess 'answering machine' again? Called again and was told that the part was sent via Fedex but must be 'super saver' Fedex. It's not due to us for 2 more days. We'll have been without a working toilet for nearly 2 weeks by the time this is done.
Having said all that, we're still hopeful that we'll end up with a decent toilet, but my recommendation would be to buy from a local supplier that you can grab by the throat if things go wrong!"

pgcorky
Leesburg, VA

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/costco/costco_foremost_279602.jpg

Reader Review
11-16-2010, 12:00 PM
Mechanism unreliable

"I have used 2 of these in my house for 6 or 7 months now, and want to revise my rating of this item from 4 stars to 2.
1 of the 2 toilets still works fine, but the other one's mechanism is getting tricky: more than half of the time it fails to do a clean flush. You just have to wait and do it once or twice more."

MichelefromPA
Philadelphia, PA

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/costco/costco_foremost_279602.jpg

Reader Review
11-16-2010, 12:01 PM
Poorly designed, despite best intentions
"We bought 2 of these toilets, both had flushing mechanism flaws. The toilets "ran," and we ultimately stopped using one of them because it's flush was so unreliable. Avoid this toilet until it's successfully redesigned."

Anonymous
Seattle, WA

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/costco/costco_foremost_279602.jpg

averymfw
12-05-2010, 02:09 AM
Terry (or anybody) is this still an outstanding issue? I'm looking for something like this toilet.
Is the problem on this dual flush also exhibited on the single flush version: 21-317?

Terry
12-05-2010, 11:12 AM
The dual flush Ecoflush is made in China. I no longer sell that tank.

The 1.1 and the 1.6 gallon Flushmate is made in Detroit Michigan, and has been in use for twenty years.
I recommend getting the 1.1 gallon Flushmate if you want the Watersense Gerber.
Parts of the Eastside get a $100.00 rebate for a Watersense toilet.

Consumer Reports should have made some effort in their report to warn people about the WDI dual flush product. I don't understand how "junk" continues to get "best buy" ratings. But then, I'm a plumber selling, installing and repairing toilets for a "living", and so I have to put up with the fallout from their report.

If you are looking for a 10" rough, ADA bowl, then I have in stock the Toto CST744EF.10 for $369.99 that gets the rebate.
The Gerber 21-317 is the 1.6 gallon version of the Flushmate, with a 10" rough and sells for $339.99 locally here in Bothell. It takes a day or two to get this.

Redwood
12-06-2010, 02:55 PM
I just love it when these other companies try to imitate the FlushMate....

The Good Ol Kohler stab at it with their Pressure Lite Exploding Toilet...

http://terrylove.com/images/kohler_pressure_1.jpg

Then there was the orphaning of the PF-2's......

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2/Redwood39/pf2.jpg

And now these WDI beauties.... ROFLMAO

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/gerber/wdi_ecoflush_1.jpg

When will they ever learn?
I did long ago....
I buy Flushmate and avoid the imitators....
If a company like Kohler can't engineer their way out of it with superseded parts superseding parts imagine how a lessor company will do....
Kohler got smart and threw in the towel....
When are these idiots going to figure it out....:D

blackbiz
01-14-2011, 11:59 AM
So what is the solution to this faulty toilet? I have called the customer service and (949) number several times which has been a complete joke. (800) number is just an answering machine, and lady at the (949) number says all she can do is pass along your information, a la the answer machine. In the end, no one ever gets back to you. This has been a big disappointing experience.

Terry
01-14-2011, 05:21 PM
The solution is to replace the inner tank with the Flushmate 1.1 gallon tank. You can get that replacement on the Flushmate site, which by the way is getting very tired of homeowners asking about the WDI tanks made in China. Flushmate does not make the WDI dual flush. Flushmate manufactures their 1.1 and 1.6 tanks in Detroit Michigan. They are a local product that has been in use for years and years.

kevinmadams
01-16-2011, 11:15 AM
As for Consumer Reports, this is the kind of reporting I seen from them for the last 20 years not just on toilets. I can see it now the boss comes in and says hurry up with that toilet report you have TV's tomorrow and toasters Friday.... Consumer reports has lost all credibility with me since the made Bear paint a top pic. I have built two kind of testing laboratories in my 38 year construction career. I know the personal and equipment needed for a lab to do correct, specific, and certified testing is phenomenal. In my opinion Consumer Reports opinion should be trusted as much as the main stream media.

ballvalve
01-17-2011, 09:20 AM
Your best protection: If its not in a dollar store, and it says made in China and includes a moving part, do not buy it.

$$$ down the drain
05-27-2011, 07:30 AM
I have three Gerber Dual Flush toilets. The first two failed within 6 months of their purchase and WDI customer service took care of the problem right away. The third and final toilet started to fail two months ago. I have tried and tried and tried to contact WDI and NO ONE returns my calls. I'm done dealing with WDI. Yesterday I called Gerber to complain and they are in denial about this problem. They told me that the WDI product is kind of like a package inside of a package and that their (Gerber's) warranty only covers the china and that I need to contact WDI. I had to repeat myself over and over to the Gerber rep. that WDI is not returning calls and I that I felt like WDI was hiding from a huge problem and that I felt like Gerber needs to take care of the promblem NOW!

I'm ordering three Flushmate replacement tanks today... I'm done with Gerber and I'm done with WDI and heck I'm done with made in China!

BlueHouse
08-06-2011, 09:25 PM
I have a Crane Plumbing toilet with WDI Ecoflush (unknown model). The handle drips when you flush it. I've checked the tank and I can't see why. Also, the dual-flush dosen't seem to work. Would aprecciate any help.

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/gerber/wdi_ecoflush_1.jpg
WDI Technology EcoFlush

BlueHouse
08-12-2011, 08:38 PM
Here is the Costco toilet now being sold with this Lemon



Why do you call it a lemon?

Terry
08-14-2011, 11:55 PM
When 40% of the tanks fail within six months, that's a Lemon.
Consumer Reports may like products that fail that quickly, but then they aren't plumbers, and they don't have to do the service calls. I'm still waiting for them to apologize for the mistake and let people know that their "Best Buy" should read, "Lemon".

WDI EcoFlush, a dual-flush pressure unit.
Made in China, not that it should have made any difference.

Shoeless
09-12-2011, 11:38 AM
I have three of the "lemons" and the first one I purchased (probably 5 years ago) is exhibiting a weak flush. I called the 800 number and got an answering machine but before throwing in the towel and ordering a Flushmate replacement, I called the 949 number. A woman answered and transferred my call and someone picked up immediately. He was very helpful and asked a series of questions. He said I needed a new flush valve control assembly and offered to send me one - free for the part, $8.99 shipping.

I then told him I had read about the general unreliability of this unit. He was very familiar with this thread and assured me that this part is undergoing "continuous" redesigns to improve it. I didn't say I believed it, I'm just relaying what he told me. But I decided that it was worth a try to spend $9 rather than $140 or so for the Flushmate.

When life hands you lemons, get a new flush control valve assembly!


If I had the choice originally to buy a U.S. made system rather than a Chinese one, I would have paid substantially more. Not because that U.S. made items are necessarily better than Chinese made ones - the Chinese can make good products just like U.S. companies can make junk at times. I just would much rather support the U.S. manufacturing base. I think the best hope we have for U.S. manufacturing is for democracy to sweep into China with the eventual (and probably very gradual turn to) fair wages being paid to their workers. Wouldn't that be nice?

13935
Snowshoe - Not Just a Dog

Gary Swart
09-12-2011, 03:27 PM
Yeah, it's tough to toss something that even when not ideal is functioning. However, you might want to keep in mind how much use a toilet gets per day, per week, per month, per year. Is it really worth hanging on to a poor performer? Certainly, that's a question only you can answer, but it is something you might want to consider. Would you keep a car that wasn't reliable?

Shoeless
10-03-2011, 08:52 AM
But if the replacement part is truly redesigned (as the manufacturer said) and now reliable, then it makes no sense to throw out the baby with the toilet water. A visual inspection indicated the $9 replacement valve was certainly a different design so I'm back up and running and only time will tell. Seems like a better decision than spending $400+ to replace all the units.

Terry
10-03-2011, 09:03 AM
I'm back up and running and only time will tell.

Yes..........time will tell. Let us know in a few years how that works for you.

My customers and myself got burned pretty badly on the previous tanks.

churchillrow
12-10-2011, 06:20 AM
Amazing that the problem is widespread enough that they have brought out a product specifically to deal with it.

https://www.eflushmate.com/FP/category/WDIMaster.html

toby emerson
02-23-2012, 12:47 PM
I have 301 of these EcoFlush gabage toilets in the hotel i work. I have ecoflush B8104's.I have single flush 1.1 per flush, when i call Zern to get my warrenty parts they send me the 8601 cartrages now ( box is marked 8401). I have not found a compatable alternative insert for the Zurn brand I have.In the past year and a half ( they were installed 3 1/2 years ago) I have ran through 26 cartrages, 8 bladders ( for some reason the water at base of it likes to flow into the tank. Another Chief Engineer at a different property had to have Zurn ( or ecoflush) out to his property and put 280 yes, 280 mini hose clamps on one of the lines added because thhe original crimped piece was malfunctioning and spraying water in the guest rooms. I hate EcoFlush, I hate Zurn, i wish there was a replacment bladder for my side handle tanks, but i have not found one as of yet.--- Thanks

GCk444
04-13-2012, 11:02 PM
It is clear you have a defective EcoFlush vessel that suffers from defective parts, and many EcoFlush vessels have pinholes and all kind of malfunctions. The good plumbers will not sell or touch any American Standard, Gerber, Mansfield or ZURN's EcoFlush toilet. My plumber told me that every time he calls Eco technical supports, they tried to make him pay for shipping cost when the damn products are defective. They always bullshit you this is first time they ever see any pinholes and other defective problems. If anyone wants good stuff, be safe and buy US made like Sloan or be very SORRY with all these CHEAP made in china products from EcoFlush/WDI!

GCk444
04-13-2012, 11:21 PM
To everyone that has the EcoFlush toilets, DO NOT be Scammed and pay the $8.99 shipping fee when you have DEFECTIVE parts from your EcoFlush pods. Why does anyone need to pay it when the damn things FAIL all the time??? If EcoFlush/WDI tells you to pay for any shipping fee, you just need to contact the Toilet manufactures (i.e. ZURN, GERBER, MANSFIELD, AMERICAN STANDARD etc..). I don't have these toilet manufacture info but you can just google them. These EcoFlush pods have a 10 years warranty, and no one should pay for any DEFECTIVE products, plus WASTING your time on these BS products. Buy American (Sloan)! ����

seatocl
06-16-2012, 08:36 AM
We have this toilet and it worked for about two months, then stopped flushing reliably. Called the company and they sent a new flush mechanism. Very prompt service. Because of the shape of our tank, it was not an easy task to replace this part. Would have to remove all of the insides to replace the flush mechanism. So, we tried just removing the two little caps on it and replacing the springs inside with the springs that came in the new unit. It worked! Flushed reliably again for about 3 months. Now, back to never knowing if it will flush. If we take off the caps, the toilet will flush while the cap is off, seemingly from some kind of relation to the spring action being released. My husband wants to just replace the toilet. I am going to try to find a source for the springs and see if replacing them regularly will solve the problem. Just guessing, I suppose, but for our unit the springs definitely seem to be a factor.

Here is what I do:

1. Turn off water to Eco-flush.
2. Remove caps on flush handle.
3. Remove the springs and pull the white plastic plungers with tip of finger.
4. Clean and inspect plungers and o-rings.
5. Apply small amount of bee's wax or petrol. jelly to the o-rings. The o-rings here trap air not water. Plastic to rubber makes wear and leaks.
5a. With the bee's wax rubbed into you finger rub finger into cylinder walls leaving no trace to be pushed down into piping.
6. Wipe any excess from plungers then re-install plungers back into the cylinder with the notches aligned.
7. With your finger, raise and lower plunger to check and distribute some bee's wax to the inside cylinder wall.
8. Replace springs.
9. Replace caps.
10. Make sure the handle lifts and lowers correctly. If not reinstall again.
11. Turn water back on and wait until water sound stops.
12. Pray!
13. Hold your breath and cross your fingers.:rolleyes:
14. Flush.
15. I would do this when new. You would assume they would lube these at factory. but I have always found them dry when leaking.

I have had a couple of these and have replaced the handle once. Simple physics would make these usable longer. The other plungers in the system need this also. I learned this years ago when my Dad serviced my bike pump that had leather seals. "Keep them supple and they will seal. Happy Fathers day.

jadnashua
06-16-2012, 08:56 AM
Many plastics don't like petroleum products...try a silicon plumber's grease. No idea if this will work, or work long term, but at least use something designed for this purpose!

GCK4444
11-09-2012, 06:34 PM
TO ALL OF YOU WHO OWNS ANY ECOFLUSH PRESSURE-ASSISTED TOILETS,

You will have nothing but problems! These EcoFlush pods' have many many changes all the time. They are trying to bandage all the design flaws and quality problems. If you call their Technical Supports, they have only 2 guys working there and had been LYING to the customers that nothing wrong with those pods!!! Hopefully, NONE of you are being fooled to pay the shipping charge when the damm thing is defective! These EcoFlush B8104, B8106 and B8100 pods do not work like Terry said. They leak, water-log, have hissing sound from the pinholes, have cracks, and other failures.

Someone in the plumbing industry mentioned this WDI/EcoFlush engineer, who left Pfisher/Stanley Black & Decker and went to work for WDI. This engineer is so frustrated with his new bosses because they have no clue in management. They just pushing him to lie to their customers (American Standard, Zurn, Gerber, Mansfield, Crane, and others) that everything is OK. The higher up, Kevin Oak, CEO of the company writes like a 3rd grader. How can any reputable company be running by an idiot? This speaks alot about their products....

EcoFlush and WDI are owned by a chinese company, WDI, located in china. They use WDI International Inc. in the states. STOP BUYING CHEAPLY MADE IN CHINA CRAPS! Go with SLOAN, NOT the copycat pods from EcoFlush. They have quality pressure-assisted products and are proudly Made in USA!

Gary Swart
11-09-2012, 08:11 PM
Many of the regular users of this forum have tried to advise folks about the shortcomings of many of the old well known brands to toilets that have merged and/or been outsourced to third world countries that have little or no quality concerns or control. Gerber is but one of these companies. We sometimes come across as snake oil salesmen in our praise and recommendation of the Toto line of toilets, and I'm sure many folks pass this off as overzealous hype. However, it is fact that Toto realized from the very beginning that the low flow requirements could not be reached with superficial and minor changes to flush valves. Toto engineers made significant design changes to the internal workings of the toilet. True, these changes are not apparent to visual inspection, but the results were immediately apparent to plumbers and users alike. Toto toilets were dependable, they flushed everything every time, and they did not clog. This resulted in Toto becoming the largest manufacturer of toilets in the world even though they are not heavily advertised and are not sold in every plumbing shop in the country. They did not rely on gimmicks like pressure assisted flushing or fancy flush valves to accomplish this, so when normal replacement of things like flappers is needed, they are available in hardware stores and discount centers everywhere. So yes, we do tend to tout the Toto toilets, but it is with good reason that we do.

archibald tuttle
12-27-2012, 06:30 AM
However, it is fact that Toto realized from the very beginning that the low flow requirements could not be reached with superficial and minor changes to flush valves. . . They did not rely on gimmicks like pressure assisted flushing or fancy flush valves to accomplish this, so when normal replacement of things like flappers is needed, they are available in hardware stores and discount centers everywhere. So yes, we do tend to tout the Toto toilets, but it is with good reason that we do.

Just stopped by with an unrelated toilet problem (well the problem is virtually always the flush in one way or another but my problem does not involve a pressure assist, either WDI or Sloan) but my inability to avoid browsing lead me to Terry's recommendations for low flush toilets which then lead me to his anti-recommendation for these ecoflush toilets and thus to this thread.

And I really had literally nothing to add until I got to the very last post. While I can appreciate the accolades for Toto -- and I used to buy them when they weren't gold plated pricewise -- I have found the sloan pressure assisted flush is generally a better value these days -- can usually get one around $300 or just under, and have had no reliability issues (should be noted - maybe it is elsewhere on this site - that there is a major recall/refit out there where they want you to put a pressure regulator on the infeed and a band over the tank. But I'm on reasonably low pressure system anyway - and I'm sitting on the thing right now and not sweating bullets).

The only complaint I've had is that the bowls aren't interchangeable - at least according to the suppliers - and so I can't retrofit that system -- although I'm not above trying it anyway. And the Bowls sold with seem to run a slightly higher weir and that has caused occasional dredging problems, which isn't about endowment - I can assure you.

But given that pressure flushing is a long tested commercial urban design for water systems that can deliver pressure and volume without a nearby tank. So, I don't really think it is fair to call pressure-assisted flush a gimic - and it does appear, whether for marketing purposes more than redesign of the hydraulics - that the bowls associated with these pressure assisted toilets have been redesigned. Maybe they didn't go anywhere near as far as Toto, and given my success with these toilets, maybe they didn't have to.

I have installed pressure assisted in numerous places where I had niggling flush problems, occasional clogs without seeming provocation from foreign objects, etc. and they always solved the problem. It is probably unfortunate for the technology as a whole that one of the two major entrants into the market is making a maintenance nightmare.

To see folks from hotels writing in who have to keep 200 or 300 of these WDI units running makes me glad I only have about 50 toilets to keep running (and only 4 of them are pressure assist, the rest are working so why mess with success (of course maybe half of those are full flush 3 to 5 gallon units from the good old days).

As to Consumer Reports, I pretty much disregard it in favor of consumer experience now accessible on the web filtered through the prism of realization that more people are likely to take to the netwaves with complaints than with praise. And CR has definitely morphed from what I thought I respected, offering choices and dissociated testing, to telling you what you ought to buy.

Washing machines are another particularly great example and as a previous poster pointed out, 50 to 60% of installations I'm familiar with are not suited to the high vibration associated with frontloading washers - which is more or less synonymous within the industry with water saver or high efficiency although there are now some top loading 'water savers'. On top of that, front loaders evolved as an industry segment just as digital control was taking off, and there is nothing more unsuited to digital control than a washing machine in my experience. The vast majority of problems I've had with these machines is failure of the black box. Not only is it an expensive part that the average homeowner can't replace, in many cases it is difficult even with purported 'secret' test regimes to actually diagnose whether the problem is the box or a peripheral signal to the box. In this sense the maintenance history, at least in my limited experience servicing a fleet of 20 odd washers with half gone over to front loaders, isn't about the front loading technology -- anymore than the maintenance history of WDI is about pressure assisted flush. the vibration is, to an extent associated with the technology, but the digital controls just happened to be an attempt to dress them up in some kind of space age costume to make it something different than the technology that has been available as the laundromat for 50 years or more. It is a big a mistake as putting digital controls, at least ones that can't be bypassed on ovens.

The companies I respect are those that buck these trends or at least offer options. It's hard, but if you look carefully (and I hate to give away this guarded trade secret) you can find a frigidaire front loader with an old fashioned timer (and several other brand labels have their name on the same unit). (BTW it still does have a digital motor controller but have a dozen of these units in service, some for half dozen years or more and no problems with the motor controller, vs. nothing but headaches with the digitial interfaces vs. standard analog timers)

You can also get a great stove from Avanti that is simple, reasonably priced and analog (I'm familiar with the gas units haven't tried one of their electrics). Even the electonically sparked over ignition can be overridden in a power outage or if the ignitor fails) and the oven is not tethered to a digital timer or electronic control. For years they carved out a niche making apartment size units, but I believe they have a 30" in the works.

So it isn't that I don't decry gimics, or the overuse of technology that makes something simple into something complicated and difficult to maintain. To bring this full circle and not be accused of trying to discuss appliances rather than toilets -- I guess toilets are appliances in some parlance -- I'm not ready to put pressure assisted flush for residential use into the category of inappropriate gimics, although I hope my magnum opus might inspire continued reflection, debate etc. on this great thread.

I respect what Toto is doing for the toilet but they are on that same trajectory as Toyota in terms of price. I own 6 toyotas all made in the 1980s and 1990s, but I don't anticipate buying any 2000s. (it isn't only price but a loss of simplicity and servicability which is going on across the industry so I'm distinguishing toyota on price here). Some folks can afford to pay more for a toilet than I can and it is a credit to Toto that their quality and function supports the kind of pricing they maintain. I'm topping out at $300 a toilet and generally at a third of that or less, but that looks like Toto's entry level. I used to be able to buy a Toto in the low hundred dollar range. That made sense. These days I put in the cheapest one that works in a given location. I've given up on the notion that I can predict which installs are going to give me trouble because Murphy works in mysterious ways.

And because I work on the same buildings, I do have the advantage of constantly being back anyway. I don't have a callback issue in the same way the plumbing contractors would and I can absolutely see why they would push to install a product that is not going to reflect badly on them, and despite the price premium my guess is that you can shave a modest bit on labor and profit to make the Toto more competitive if there is a much smaller chance you'll be called back for failure.

And now for the really funny thing, I'm going to click on the "post quick reply" button.

brian

Terry
12-27-2012, 10:15 AM
Brian,

If I'm comparing cost on a "pressure assist" to a Gravity, the gravity winds up being less expensive.
Your too munch money works "if" you are comparing gravity to gravity.

Though, I'm finding the TOTO Drake bowls being installed in many of the "commercial" places I'm visiting.
A pub in North Bend, a ski resort on Snoqualmie, Hotels in Blackcomb British Columbia, Golf course, churches, restaurants and bars.

My cost on a pressure assist toilet is more than for gravity.
My returns on the EcoFlush dual flush pressure assist were ridiculous.
If you only have four pressure assist bowls, and they are the American made Flushmate, then you really haven't been made aware of the dual flush problems in the field yet.

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/gerber/wdi_ecoflush_1.jpg
WDI Technology EcoFlush

jadnashua
12-27-2012, 11:56 AM
COmmercial flush system (which require usually at least a 1" water supply to the toilet), just aren't practical for most homes. The noise from flushing them wouldn't be particularly appreciated in the middle of the night right next to the bedroom. FWIW, when you compare street prices, the Toto toilets are often on par with similar toilets. Yes, they do have some highly styled ones that can cost an arm and a leg, but they have some very nice looking, well-made ones that are very reasonable. I've never particularly liked a pressure assisted toilet, and they can just plain scare little children, IF they can even overcome the sticky old valve flush lever on the things to flush it.

wjcandee
12-27-2012, 04:18 PM
Hey, Brian. Enjoyed your post.

Don't try to put a pressure tank with a gravity bowl or visa versa. Won't work; one way will create a big mess, and the other way the water will just go "glug" and, for the most part, stay in the tank. There are a few (very few) good analytical articles around the web that show in detail the different engineering involved.

The original Toto Drake is available in a lot of places for an about-$200 price point. Given the quality of the unit, that seems like a fair price to me. We now have two. We will probably end up with more. (We also have a tonier Carlyle II, but the basic Drake would work fine for us in most applications.)

In the City, I have a rental apartment in a 490-unit high rise, built in the 80s. At time of construction, they installed AS Galleria lowboy toilets, which look cool and can't overflow. But their flush caused Maintenance to make nightly trips around the building with a snake and a plunger, so they have been replacing them as they turn over apartments. The initial replacement toilet was a Toto Drake, which the tenants universally-loved. But ownership had some aesthetic concerns because of the way the tiling and rough-in had been done for the Gallerias, so they switched to a Gerber, which management likes but which apparently has left many tenants nonplussed. Given this, I have left my Galleria in place, and tweaked it with the knowledge acquired from this site so that it does the job as along as one takes care to flush repeatedly at what I now intuitively-know to be the solids-limit (which isn't much). I'm only sorry that I didn't ask for a new toilet when they were installing the Drakes.

archibald tuttle
12-30-2012, 05:42 AM
Hey, Brian. Enjoyed your post.

Don't try to put a pressure tank with a gravity bowl or visa versa. Won't work; one way will create a big mess, and the other way the water will just go "glug" and, for the most part, stay in the tank. There are a few (very few) good analytical articles around the web that show in detail the different engineering involved.


Any quick links or pointers or recommendations for keywords for google search to find these explorations of engineering.




The original Toto Drake is available in a lot of places for an about-$200 price point. Given the quality of the unit, that seems like a fair price to me. We now have two. We will probably end up with more. (We also have a tonier Carlyle II, but the basic Drake would work fine for us in most applications.)

You are right that the Drake pricing is comparable. I'm going to check my wholesaler again, but its $233 . That is still a pretty penny but a little cheaper than new pressure assist.

Not sure when I have looked Toto that this has been on my radar given the many up market approaches they have. And ironically, I may have written off gravity toilets because of niggling refill water level issues when I kept getting recommendations that this was a problem with the near toilet piping. And of course this has been made worse by water saver toilets because the refill is open less time and thus less metering what is channeled to the bowl is more important and the amount of water you have in the flush to create the siphon if the bowl is a little low is compromised.

Because these problems would crop up unpredictably and seemed to persevere inspite of any piping changes and because I put pressure assisted in and it worked on these problem children, I just gave in to the force.

That said I'm interested to look at designs and theory. The noise doesn't bother me and the function is great - with respect that the WDI version has been a maintenance nightmare. Since I look inside, I can tell the difference and will of course, but my next problem will get a drake and we'll see.

thanks for your replies.

brian

John Southin
01-05-2013, 12:23 PM
We have this toilet and it worked for about two months, then stopped flushing reliably. Called the company and they sent a new flush mechanism. Very prompt service. Because of the shape of our tank, it was not an easy task to replace this part. Would have to remove all of the insides to replace the flush mechanism. So, we tried just removing the two little caps on it and replacing the springs inside with the springs that came in the new unit. It worked! Flushed reliably again for about 3 months. Now, back to never knowing if it will flush. If we take off the caps, the toilet will flush while the cap is off, seemingly from some kind of relation to the spring action being released. My husband wants to just replace the toilet. I am going to try to find a source for the springs and see if replacing them regularly will solve the problem. Just guessing, I suppose, but for our unit the springs definitely seem to be a factor.

I found that if I occasionally lubricated the part that slides up and down under those caps that the problem is solved. Just unscrew the caps and remove the spring. Put your finger inside the tube and slide it up and down (it won't move very far). I spray a bit of silicone lubricant around the outside of the sliding tube (when it is as far up as it will move), and then vigorously jiggle it up and down to work the lubricant around the whole tube as much as possible. Then replace the spring and screw on the cap. This fix will last for about 5 months, and then you have to do it again. I usually clean the water filter (at the bottom of the tank) at the same time. It's odd that the manufacturer never mentions this do-it-yourself quick fix.

ericd100
04-25-2013, 08:59 AM
Hi terry - I have a simple and hopefully not silly question -

I have the horrible ecoflush unit mounted in a mansfield toilet unit. It is a 3 bolt attach tank.

is it possible to simply remove it and replace it with a simple flapper style flush valve and be done with it? Or is the entire toilet specialized to the ecoflush?

image of my toilet and example flush valve kit included

Thanks in advance2002620027

Terry
04-25-2013, 09:05 AM
The bowl is specially designed for a pressure assist tank. Changing to a flapper won't help.

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/gerber/wdi_ecoflush_1.jpg
WDI Technology EcoFlush

ericd100
04-25-2013, 09:12 AM
Ok thanks very much!

wjcandee
04-25-2013, 03:20 PM
You can't put in a flapper, but you can, at some expense, put in a Sloan Flushmate that is designed specifically to replace the WDI Ecoflush.

For the Mansfield Tank 119, I believe the model number of the replacement Flushmate is going to be M-101526-F3HMK. It is, however, going to be north of $100.

Jay T Boggs
05-07-2013, 07:04 PM
Why do you call it a lemon?
Because he is trying to say that the toilet is a piece of crap. Buy the FLUSHMATE for better performance. Made in USA and far more reliable.