Design looks bad but will it work?

Bigdipper

Bigdipper

New Member
Messages
22
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Florida
I have very limited space and the drain in the floor was preexisting. The trunk is a 4 foot long and 4†wide along with the main vent, everything off the trunk is 2". The clean out is on an angle because vertically I can't snake it in the future. The slab to joist is only 15â€

ALSO, just out of sight there is a vertical 2" cast pipe just below the plywood floor. I was hoping that I could connect a sleeve to it and a PVC 90%, then split off with a Y to pick up the washing machine and bath sink. Both the sink and the machine will vent separately up the wall and across the ceiling and pick up the main vent.

Is this even doable? I've been told the Cleanout wont pass and the washer and sink can not share a 2" drain.

Am I basically screwed?
 

Attachments

  • The monster.jpg
    The monster.jpg
    50.6 KB · Views: 2,250
  • The Monster II.jpg
    The Monster II.jpg
    48.7 KB · Views: 1,290
The vent for the shower can not be flat. It must rise vertically until it is 6" above the flood level of the highest fixture.
 
Where is the "Main Vent" going? If it's just a vent then you cannot do that. The vent base needs to be washed by a fixture.
 
nhmaster said:
The vent for the shower can not be flat. It must rise vertically until it is 6" above the flood level of the highest fixture.
Click to expand...

The shower vent as shown in the second photo will elbow up through the wet wall vertically 3 feet and then tees into the main vertical 4" vent stack.
 
Last edited:
FloridaOrange said:
Where is the "Main Vent" going? If it's just a vent then you cannot do that. The vent base needs to be washed by a fixture.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the help even though you scare the crap outa me, I'm also in FLA.

The main vent showing in the bottom picture will go up through the roof dry and only serve as a huge 4" vent with evrything attached to it up in the ceiling. At the base is an elbow and the first fixture it services is the toilet. That's not enough? I'm not sure what you mean by wash out? Do I actually need a fixture to dump water directly into the main vent to wash out the elbow before it hits the toilet?
 
Last edited:
Bigdipper said:
Thank you for the help even though you scare the crap outa me, I'm also in FLA.

The main vent in the top picture will go up through the roof dry and only serve as a huge 4" vent. At the base is an elbow and the first fixture it services is the toilet. That's not enough? I'm not sure what you mean by wash out? Do I actually need a fixture dump water directly into the main vent to wash out the elbow before it hits the toilet?
Click to expand...

Basically the vent needs to rise vertically either from the connection of a sink or the vent rises from the horizontal with another fixture (toilet, shower, etc.) upstream from the vent connection.

Working in a tight space is understandable and you aren't screwed, we just want you to put in a code (and functional) acceptable layout. Using what you have I would redo it (sucks but not a big deal at this stage). Can you take your 4" main and wrap it under your wet wall then pick up your toilet. In doing so you will not need to vent your shower, and your vent only needs to be 3" unless you're picking up alot of fixtures.
 
FloridaOrange said:
Basically the vent needs to rise vertically either from the connection of a sink or the vent rises from the horizontal with another fixture (toilet, shower, etc.) upstream from the vent connection.

Working in a tight space is understandable and you aren't screwed, we just want you to put in a code (and functional) acceptable layout. Using what you have I would redo it (sucks but not a big deal at this stage). Can you take your 4" main and wrap it under your wet wall then pick up your toilet. In doing so you will not need to vent your shower, and your vent only needs to be 3" unless you're picking up alot of fixtures.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, I need more wiggle room and may need to move the toilet, it's very, very tight between shower and the toilet. First the city told me (without even looking) "you need to be 19" to a wall", I kept saying it's not a wall it's a shower but to no avail. I did it their way which really jammed me. I've read I need 15" from the center of the toilet to any side wall or 12" to a bath tub. Does a Shower stall count as a tub? If it's a tub it'll give me a lot of room to reconfigure.

Also, if I maintain a 1/4" pitch how far can the toilet be to where the 4 inch drain dumps into the 90% and into floor?

I really appreciate the help, you really have no idea how helpful, it's beyond financial. My insurance wants to cancel because I'm not done, the permit is running out and my wife goes on Chemo soon so as you might expect I'm tight on funds and time and my helper is my 4 year old daughter, I'm between a rock and hard place.
 
Last edited:
Dwv

There is too much about your system we do not know, such as whether that 4" vent is even necessary, or whether that 4" line is also the drain for the downstairs bathroom. If the answers to both of those quesions is NO, then the piping can be simplified and installed correctly. As an aside, I can't see how that cleanout would EVER be accessible, regardless of how it is rotated.
 
Bigdipper said:
Does a Shower stall count as a tub? If it's a tub it'll give me a lot of room to reconfigure.

Also, if I maintain a 1/4" pitch how far can the toilet be to where the 4 inch drain dumps into the 90% and into floor?

I really appreciate the help, you really have no idea how helpful, it's beyond financial. My insurance wants to cancel because I'm not done, the permit is running out and my wife goes on Chemo soon so as you might expect I'm tight on funds and time and my helper is my 4 year old daughter, I'm between a rock and hard place.
Click to expand...

I'm not up on space requirements, for my line of work I rely on the architect and I just "pipe" to the fixture.

On a 3" and up line size the minimum pitch is 1/8" per foot, that might buy you some space.

I hope the best for your wife, that's a tough road but very surmountable with proper treatment and support. Among the many people I've known that have had to go through treatment they've had very good results. My mother's fiance and my wife's aunt went through it within the last year.

At least your helper is 4, my girl is almost two and I'm just as likely to get a wrench dropped on my head as to get any sort of help. It sounds like you have your hands full, just remember your real priorities are your wife and daughter.
 
hj said:
There is too much about your system we do not know, such as whether that 4" vent is even necessary, or whether that 4" line is also the drain for the downstairs bathroom. If the answers to both of those quesions is NO, then the piping can be simplified and installed correctly. As an aside, I can't see how that cleanout would EVER be accessible, regardless of how it is rotated.
Click to expand...

The answer to both are no, I just thought 4" drain and vent were better. There is no down stairs, what you see is the slab that was once room with a toilet and laundry which you had to go outside to access. It was always lower than the rest of the house so I raised the floor and cut a door way into the house because I thought it was ridiculous. When you say "aside" do you mean to run the drain between the floor joists to the right turn at a 90% and then down to the floor with a 3" pipe?
 
Last edited:
If go to a 3" I may be able to I connect the toilet directly to a down 3" vent at a 90% with one of the elbows that have a side inlet. Would that count as a wash out or does in need to be a sink, shower or something above the toilet drain without solids?
 
Without knowing what's underneath and how it runs it's hard to say you'll have enough room and it's code compliant to run straight down with a side inlet fitting, you would have to run to the shower and provide a vent.

Based on what you've shown us this could work (sorry about the MS Paint job):
house.jpg
 
FloridaOrange said:
Without knowing what's underneath and how it runs it's hard to say you'll have enough room and it's code compliant to run straight down with a side inlet fitting, you would have to run to the shower and provide a vent.

Based on what you've shown us this could work (sorry about the MS Paint job):
house.jpg
Click to expand...


As long as there isn't some rule against the direction going from the toilet to the vent and then doubling back to the drain...it should work.

If I go to 3" as you had mentioned it should give me more play. I'll measure everything then I'm going to try it....I'll be back once I have something.

BTW, again thanks for the help
 
So basically washing the bottom of the vent stack is to prevent a buildup of crud blocking the vent?

Wouldn't it be better to have the shower wash the bottom of the stack?
Instead of the poop going a longer route?
Or will the flush (force) of the toilet make that a mute point
 
Scuba_Dave said:
So basically washing the bottom of the vent stack is to prevent a buildup of crud blocking the vent?

Wouldn't it be better to have the shower wash the bottom of the stack?
Instead of the poop going a longer route?
Or will the flush (force) of the toilet make that a mute point
Click to expand...

The solution to this problem is simple.

Re do it and tie the toilet in LAST on the system. If the 3" line upstream of the toilet connection is a dry vent then this will become the shower vent and the toilet will be "wet vented".

This will solve all your problems.

If possible remove that cleanout and put one in the vent when it exits through the floor (if you're able too!).
 
Last edited:
Dwv

Tear it out and start over. The 3" goes from the pipe in the floor directly to the toilet. The shower drain connects to it with a vent between the trap and the connection. Somewhere there is a lavatory/sink but we do not see that so cannot tell you how to connect it. The 2" shower vent becomes the main, and only, vent you need. By "aside" I meant the comment was not germaine to the original question, but how would you ever access it if the drain is obstructed?
 
FloridaOrange said:
I'm not up on space requirements, for my line of work I rely on the architect and I just "pipe" to the fixture.

On a 3" and up line size the minimum pitch is 1/8" per foot, that might buy you some space.

I hope the best for your wife, that's a tough road but very surmountable with proper treatment and support. Among the many people I've known that have had to go through treatment they've had very good results. My mother's fiance and my wife's aunt went through it within the last year.

At least your helper is 4, my girl is almost two and I'm just as likely to get a wrench dropped on my head as to get any sort of help. It sounds like you have your hands full, just remember your real priorities are your wife and daughter.
Click to expand...

I was told by a guy in Lowes to run a 3" pipe from the floor hub and half way attach a double wye. Attach the left to the toilet, the center to a studer vent box in the wet wall although he may have ment in the attic at the top of the vent. The third leg goes to the right to the shower. When I asked about the laundry and bath sink he said to get separate studer vents for them.

Is the guy a nut or this even real?
 
Last edited:
hj said:
Tear it out and start over. The 3" goes from the pipe in the floor directly to the toilet. The shower drain connects to it with a vent between the trap and the connection. Somewhere there is a lavatory/sink but we do not see that so cannot tell you how to connect it. The 2" shower vent becomes the main, and only, vent you need. By "aside" I meant the comment was not germaine to the original question, but how would you ever access it if the drain is obstructed?
Click to expand...

I was going to take another pic but like the last but it leaves a lot out. Instead I did a quick drawing of what I've got so far. I was able to pick up more height because I went with 3" and cut what I could off the existing cast out of the floor. I connected the wash machine above the toilet to wash out. I used the wash rather than the shower to get in between the 2 x 8s without cutting them. I took out all the 90% for two 45% were needed and only used sanitary tees for clean outs, vent attachments and the washer were it connects to the vertical vent stack behind the toilet.

Will this work? What would you recommend?
Is the washout doable even though it's coming from the washing machine? The washer is in the bath ....although probably not considered a bath group. the other question is does the wash out make this a wet vent because the toilet is down stream from the washer or does the fact that I have each fixture vented separately including the washer make this a dry vent?
BTW, I missed the clean out near the boot but it's there. It's really no different than the original picture just that it's 3" instead of 4". I don't have a choice whether useless or not it's all that I have room for.
 

Attachments

  • New plumbing 2.jpg
    New plumbing 2.jpg
    35.8 KB · Views: 1,254
Last edited:
Bigdipper said:
I was told by a guy in Lowes

Is the guy a nut or this even real?
Click to expand...


Nut, my experience is that most *not all* big box employees think they know a trade just because that's the department they work in.

One tried to tell my brother his 1/2 bath install was all wrong....
That was my design and I make above average pay doing design for a living.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

D
Waste line and venting advice for a slab on grade home
Replies
10
Views
6K
dylannic
D
S
Looking for expert feedback on my proposed drain plumbing arrangement.
Replies
4
Views
975
Sealflipperpie
S
Sephy
Main stack questions
Replies
2
Views
6K
Reach4
Reach4
A
Can I add a standpipe for my washer or am I stuck draining into the sink?
Replies
1
Views
928
Sylvan
Sylvan
P
Basement Utility Sink Backflow Valve
Replies
0
Views
246
P-38 Lightning
P
Back
Top