PDA

View Full Version : How many amps can this panel handle?



yellowdog5
05-05-2009, 08:41 AM
The panel pictured below is in my barn. It is fed with #2 aluminum wire. It currently has a double pole 60 amp breaker. I have been told I can add a double pole 30 amp breaker for a total of 90 amps. I just want to double check and make sure this is OK. I am aware of the issues with Zinsco panels.
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/4089/panel002small.jpg
By at 2009-05-04
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/7025/panel001small.jpg
By at 2009-05-04

hj
05-06-2009, 07:48 AM
Where would you add it? There are no lugs for any additional breaker of any type.

yellowdog5
05-19-2009, 01:01 AM
I was going to switch to the narrow style of breakers, this way there is room for two.

Speedy Petey
05-19-2009, 04:13 AM
That panel may not accept narrow breakers.

Also, much as it goes against conventional wisdom, adding a 30 to that 60 DOES NOT "equal" 90.

That is actually a "panel". It is a service (or main) disconnect. See the bonded neutral and grounding electrode conductor.
What is it feeding? Is it a farm outbuilding?

jimbo
05-19-2009, 06:32 AM
You would have to read the label as to max amps, and measure the wire gauge of the supply, which I can't tell for sure in the pic.

For what a thin 60 and another thin 30 Zinsco will cost you, why not just replace the panel?

hj
05-19-2009, 07:08 AM
You can put two 100 amp two pole breakers, ( in fact you can put in as many as you can fit), in the box, but you will still be limited to whatever the capacity is on the breaker feeding it.

yellowdog5
05-19-2009, 08:26 AM
It is feeding a barn, and yes, it is a service disconnect, and it will accept narrow breakers. The wire is #2 aluminum.

tjbaudio
05-19-2009, 11:10 AM
It is feeding a barn, and yes, it is a service disconnect, and it will accept narrow breakers. The wire is #2 aluminum.

Since it is a service disconnect, what is feeding it? A breaker panel out on a pole? That is very common around here. If so you have more options but I would still replace the whole thing.

If it is a direct feed from the power meter then you have to replace the panel with a unit that has a proper main breaker and then slots for your small circuits.

Speedy Petey
05-19-2009, 12:29 PM
Pull the meter and change the panel.
Come on now. Please don't start sh*t like this. This is stupid/dangerous advice!

Pulling the meter is NOT within the scope of DIY work, and even some electricians who are not allowed to.

220/221
05-19-2009, 06:52 PM
Pulling the meter is NOT within the scope of DIY work, and even some electricians who are not allowed to.

That's your opinion and I would respect it enough not to censor it and present only my own opinion.

I'm not allowed to pull meters but I do it because A) it's not rocket science and B) it is a waste of resources (time and money) to schedule outages.

Unpluging a meter is like unpluging a big extension cord. If you are an adult, you can weigh the risks and make your own decisions.

You are not going to find a 30/60 quad breaker so you will have to have the meter pulled by a highly trained, qualified specialist and change the panel.

Speedy Petey
05-20-2009, 03:35 AM
That's your opinion and I would respect it enough not to censor it and present only my own opinion.
True, it is my own opinion. It is also the opinion of most every POCO and AHJ out there.
It is also illegal in MOST areas, and is NOT smart for someone untrained to do and without PPE. It is even dumber to suggest to someone untrained to do it. That is like saying "Go ahead. Run across that busy expressway. You look quick and nimble. I'm sure you'll make it."

jimbo
05-20-2009, 06:39 AM
Unpluging a meter is like unpluging a big extension cord.
I think that is a gross understatement of the potential safety issues.


If you are an adult, you can weigh the risks and make your own decisions.

Adults sometimes make the unfortunate decision to try to cross the freeway on foot. Darwin usually benefits from the outcome.






This debate has gotten a little testy, but felt I needed to add my 2 cents worth.

220/221
05-20-2009, 02:09 PM
This debate has gotten a little testy, but felt I needed to add my 2 cents worth.

This is testy? Heh heh....this isn't even close to testy.


Hmmmm.....Is testy derived from testosterone? I never thought of it that way but, when guys like Petey and I get into it, there may be some testosterone involved.

hj
05-21-2009, 06:38 AM
Here, you could pull the meter yourself, but then APS would subject you to a $25,000.00 fine for tampering, and possibly charge you will "stealing" electricity because they would not know WHEN you did it, or whether you were installing jumpers to bypass the meter socket. And, since they "pull" on the seals when they read the meter, they would know that you had cut it off. I once installed an additional service to a suite and back fed it from an existing panel. The power company initially thought I had tapped in ahead of the meter and was getting ready to write up the paperwork when they realized I was not "stealing" the power.

yellowdog5
05-21-2009, 06:59 PM
We have fiber optic meter reading. Wouldn't that be a sure catch for an illegally pulled meter? Don't worry, I wouldn't dream of it anyway.

hj
05-22-2009, 07:21 AM
Yes, they could send the enforcement officers immediately to issue the citation.

220/221
05-22-2009, 09:48 AM
I just realized that the Zinsco bus will accept thin 2 pole breakers.


This is a thin two pole 30 that would fit in your panel. The two pole thin 50 would be the same size. You can do what you want because of the Zinsco style bus.

http://images.shopping.msn.com/img/6/2987/187/38620981.jpg


It's still not real safe to pull out old breakers in this style of panel. They do get stuck and often have to be coaxed out.