Metal flange

brad_j · May 4, 2009

Ok.....well, I knew this would happen. The youtube videos I saw made it look so easy.

Below you'll see my situation in pictures. And I'm not quite sure how to proceed. It seems the flared plastic piece was glued to the 4" pipe after it was put on top of the metal flange. If so, it would seem my only option is to cut the pipe from below (in basement); glue on a 4" coupler and push new pipe up through the floor; then install new flange.

Thanks for the insight.

You've all been most helpful with my previous questions.

Gary Swart · May 4, 2009

That what I'd do. That's ABS pipe, so use ABS replacement materials, but I'd a use a flange with a stainless steel ring and use #12 stainless steel screws to screw it through the finished floor and into the sub floor. Do you know the flange is supposed to rest on top of the finished floor?

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

brad_j · May 4, 2009

yes

You'll note in the basement photo that there is some staining which means it leaked. Not sure of the damage as I didn't want to get to far into this without getting some advice.

What about using a hacksaw and cutting off the flange at floor level. Then, use one of those flanges with an insert already attached that goes into the pipe. Is that a good option?

It is interesting that the old toilet had been there and in place without being bolted to the flange.

brad_j · May 4, 2009

good idea

What about this idea?

http://wantasub1.stores.yahoo.net/galbayflan.html

Redwood · May 4, 2009

bradahkimo said:
What about this idea?

http://wantasub1.stores.yahoo.net/galbayflan.html

Okay you have the right idea!
I was just going to post that option!

However I would not use the Galvanized one that you have linked.
Raven Products makes a stainless steel one that is sold at many supply houses and Oatey makes the same thing and calls it the Moss Bay replacement flange which Lowes sells...

http://www.oatey.com/Plumber/Shared/ProductGroupDetail/726/Moss+Bay+Replacement+Flange.html

Fasten it down with #12 brass or stainless steel screws that pentrate through all layers of floor and sub floor.

Kingsotall · May 4, 2009

Excellent advice from redwood but given you have such wonderful access to the flange from below it might be just as well to replace the whole kitten kaboodle.

Redwood · May 4, 2009

$10 and a few minutes to install for the replacement flange vs. $30 for the stuff to do the abs replacement...

If you look at these replacement flanges...
The old ring is completely removed and the new ring locks into the plastic section of the flange just like the old ring did.

It's a great fix!

Kingsotall · May 4, 2009

yeah, I guess it is the wrong time and place to get some plastic pipe experience under ones belt. Good luck with the flange repair kit. Should be a breeze to fix.

brad_j · May 4, 2009

Redwood......

Thanks for the advice.

It seems the metal flange is stuck to the ABS plastic. When I try to lightly hammer or pry up on the metal, the plastic moves as well.

I'll get my tin snips and see what I can do.

I hope my subfloor is intact (see 4th picture) as there is some staining.

Found some interesting stuff here: Quickfix Plumbing Products (dot) com that deal with rotting floor issues (and more)

Redwood · May 4, 2009

Yes you have to snip the metal ring to remove it. The plastic portion of the flange has a groove the old ring is locked into. The new 2 piece ring will also lock in to that groove.

brad_j · May 4, 2009

Redwood

I did a little more poking around and found that the metal flange in somewhat funnel shaped and goes down a bit beneath floor level. I assumed the flange was flat. It would be very difficult to cut this without breaking the plastic portion that is attached to it.

Does this change your advice?

Redwood · May 4, 2009

Nope it fits into a groove on the plastic part.

Kingsotall · May 5, 2009

Ya gots to get into da grooveÂ¿!

hj · May 5, 2009

flange

Two things about the flange in the picture. I have NEVER seen a 4" flange that had the "funnel" shape so I would assume it is a 3" pipe. The "wrap around" two piece ring will require more tile removal to fit it around the pipe, and also to get the old ring off, because it is below the floor level, so that might create a problem by being larger than the toilet can cover.

brad_j · May 5, 2009

hj

hj,

I measured the diameter and it comes in at 3.5 inches (so I thought that meant it was 4" pipe).

Is it your opinion that I should just start over and cut the pipe from the basement and install a whole new assembly?

Getting to the metal part that is below floor level will be VERY difficult to cut. That stuff is thick.

Gary Swart · May 5, 2009

My thinking is that since you have easy access under the floor, the easiest thing to do is to cut the pipe in the basement and rebuild from there up. I would avoid trying to salvage any of the old flange. You not looking a huge cost difference and you'd have a much cleaner end product than patching the old connection with repair parts.

Jadnashua · May 5, 2009

I'd also make a ring of something like plywood to fit under the rim of the flange to bring it to the proper height...maybe some construction adhesive on it to adhere it to the floor, then screw the flange through that into the subflooring. You may want to predrill the holes through that ring since it will be fairly narrow, this would prevent it from splitting.

It looks like you have sufficient room to cut the pipe below, but if not, you can get an inside pipe cutter and do it from above.

brad_j · May 5, 2009

?????

What is "proper height? I thought the new flange was supposed to sit on the floor -- resting about 1/4 inch above floor level?

brad_j · May 5, 2009

New Pics

Here's my current situation. (see pics)

I built up the floor from underneath with a large piece of plywood.

Is the flange high enough off the floor to proceed?

Secondly, The wax ring instructions say that it should be at least 70 degrees. Well, here in the northeast its not that yet and is only about 65 in my house.
Should it be warmed up a bit?

Jadnashua · May 5, 2009

Well, a couple things: you shouldn't use a pvc flange on abs...you need to find an abs flange; you really don't want that painted steel ring on the flange - you really want a stainless steel one. You might need to go to a plumbing supply store. Other than that, you're getting there.

Now, you could use a no-hub connector to connect pvc to abs, but it's cheaper and better to probably use abs all the way.

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