Plunger recommendation for Am. Std. Champion?

We have a brand new american standard champion toilet in our basement bathroom. Due to an unknown dubious connection to the toilet line by the basement sealer who put in a floor drain, the toilet doesn't flush in a convincing fashion, and occasionally clogs up. There is nothing in the line - I have snaked it, and it is only a 30" run to the stack. I think the problem may be that the connection to the stack runs slightly uphill, but without pulling up a $3000 tile job, I can't tell for sure.

Whatever. It is a basement bathroom and we'll have to live with it. It doesn't always clog up with solids, only sometimes, and we don't use it all that much. I figure I'll put up a "Flush early, flush often" sign and leave a plunger next to it and call it good enough.

The trouble I have run into, though, is that some aspect of the toilet shape (4" throat?) causes it to splash around quite a bit when I try to plunge it (with my standard flanged toilet plunger). Fortunately, the one time I tried, I was plunging clear water, because otherwise it would have been quite a mess. I tried a few angles, and it made no difference. It just doesn't form a good seal with the bottom of the bowl and the downstroke causes splashing.

I also tried the cobra Plung-it-air, which made a better seal, but sprayed where the piston meets the barrel (between my two hands - yuck.)

Its a long shot, but can anyone recommend a specific plunger make/model that can clear a Champion in a reasonably tidy fashion?

I'll bet the farm that it isn't shoddy craftmanship on the contractor but the toilet itself. Put up with it or get a better water closet. This forum abounds with threads about superior toilets.

Now if that's not a sh*t eating grin if I ever saw one...

kingsotall said:

I'll bet the farm that it isn't shoddy craftmanship on the contractor but the toilet itself. Put up with it or get a better water closet. This forum abounds with threads about superior toilets.

Now if that's not a sh*t eating grin if I ever saw one...

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But, but but....24 golf balls!

Seriously, though - I am willing to put up with the weak flushing, but I would love to be able to plunge a little more tidily when the need arises.

;-)


(And regarding the craftsmanship - immediately after the tile was set, I installed the toilet. First flush (totally clean water) was a little weak but flushed. I discovered that a second flush within a 2-3 minute period would cause water to come up out of the floor drain. Wait 5-6 minutes and there was no problem. It isn't a problem in the stack, since flushing has no effect on the tub or sink which join the stack at about the same spot.

I don't understand what was going on. Some sort of lack of air escape, I imagine. In the end bought a little plug and put it in the drain. All that work for nothing.

He also put the (square) floor drain in at about 10 degrees off square from the wall.

So, while may have a low-end junky toilet, I submit that I ALSO have low-end shoddy craftsmanship!)

Juneappal said:

But, but but....24 golf balls!

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I love that ad...
What a crock o crap!

I cannot ever recall poopin out a golf ball.

I cannot ever recall poopin out a golf ball.

And if I did I would not want to recall the events leading up to it!

Obviously there is no way for us to tell with absolute certainty if the problem is the AS toilet or the drain line. It is true the AS has a terrible reputation for quality, and the uncertainly of their quality makes it tempting to blame the toilet, but this does not rule out a fault in the drain. You seem to be OK with the idea of constant plunging, and double flushing, but most of us would not want to do that. A good plumber may be able to determine how much slope there is on the drain and either confirm you theory or disprove it. It should have at least 1/4" per foot. If the fault can be determined to be the AS, then the solution, while a bit costly, is simple. Get a Toto Drake and live plunge free. If the fault is in the drain, then it's your decision to either live with the problem forever or have a new line installed along with the Drake.

Gary Swart said:

If the fault is in the drain, then it's your decision to either live with the problem forever or have a new line installed along with the Drake.

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Thanks for the responses, everyone. You have delivered clarity, if not salvation.

Did the basement sealer install a floor drain, and if so, was he a licensed plumber?

toilet

Water should NOT EVER come up out of the floor drain regardless of how quickly the toilet is flushed. You either have a bad installation or a plugged main sewer. And if so, it makes no difference how close it is to the main line, it will still happen. Just like milk will spoil if left on the table, even if it is only 12" away from the refrigerator.