P trap vs S Trap

My brother is doing a small kitchen remodel for his in-laws. As I posted in the other thread I was over there yesterday and helped him with some plumbing. I noticed that their drain for the kitchen sink/disposal goes through the cabinet floor.

I also know from here that S-traps are not to code and should not be used. How does one make a proper p-trap installation in his case?

An s-trap is not vented and in your brothers ituation there probably is not a vent available. Being an old existing installation you could leave it as is or, you can modify it like the picture below. It would be a real plus if you were able to get a through the roof vent.

Redwood may you burn real good for posting that... that.. abomination. But yes an AAV is better than no vent. *walks off kicking at the dirt*

You will note I did say this...

It would be a real plus if you were able to get a through the roof vent.

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Redwood said:

You will note I did say this...

Quote:
It would be a real plus if you were able to get a through the roof vent.

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OK I let you slide this time. I was in the home cheapo today to pick up a large screw driver. While there I walk through the plumbing aisle and I seen a guy grabbing 4 AAV's. I walked up to him and introduced myself, then proceeded to tell him those are not allowed by the Illinois Plumbing Code. He thanked me kindly for pointing that out and then said loudly "F*** the code its my home I will do what I want." Just happens there was a state plumbing inspector in the aisle over. He came over to me as the guy walked away introduced himself and had me point out the guy purchasing the AAV's. The inspector then introduced himself to the home owner, and they both ended up leaving with each other.

Ahh good ole Karma, she can turn and bite you, you know where.

See, there really is a God! Reminds me of having an A-Hole speed past me, cut me off then a mile down the road find him with flashing blue lights behind him. Doesn't happen everyday, so ya gotta savor it when it does.

So let me get this right.....AAV's are illegal.... but HD sells them anyway....a homeowner buys some and you point him out to some inspector who asks you who you were talking to. The inspector leaves with the homeowner to make him do what? Inpsect what he is doing and fine him? How about the inspector goes to the HD manager and tells him to remove the illegal devices and writes them a fine for selling illegal devices. Sounds rediculous to me to focus on a homeowner. It also sounds rediculous to me that AAV's are ok in some places but not in others or that some things are OK someplaces but not others....the entire code and inspection process is somewhat ambiguous since it varies everywhere you go.......Makes ZERO sense to me.

Rich B said:

So let me get this right.....AAV's are illegal.... but HD sells them anyway....a homeowner buys some and you point him out to some inspector who asks you who you were talking to. The inspector leaves with the homeowner to make him do what? Inpsect what he is doing and fine him? How about the inspector goes to the HD manager and tells him to remove the illegal devices and writes them a fine for selling illegal devices. Sounds rediculous to me to focus on a homeowner. It also sounds rediculous to me that AAV's are ok in some places but not in others or that some things are OK someplaces but not others....the entire code and inspection process is somewhat ambiguous since it varies everywhere you go.......Makes ZERO sense to me.

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Rich you are absolutely correct!
In a perfect world there would be one code and AAV's would be illegal everywhere.
The big box store would be raided and all it's illegal mechandise would be confiscated.

I live in an older house that had the same type kitchen sink drain plumbing......NO vent and an S-trap. It is a 2 story home so trying to get a proper vent up inside a wall and then up thru a second story and thru the attic and thru the roof.......well that is a heck of a project! I redid the drain all the way back to the main stack. Cut out all the old galvanized and redid it in PVC......added the AAV under the sink.....works perfect......Studor.....If the Nazi's come to my house they better have a warrant......LOL! I've paid property taxes on it since 1971.....I pay sewage fees as well......If I could find the guy/s who allowed my house to be built in the first pace the way it was in 1955 I'd have some questions for them!!!!

Even if they sold only legal stuff, that certainly doesn't prevent someone from using them against codes.

Now, back to his situation....no way he's getting to the roof.

The old sink had some thingy on the side which I think was the AAV with two barbed connections coming out of it like an upside down Y. I assume one went to disposal and one to the adjacent dishwasher?

Rich B said:

So let me get this right.....AAV's are illegal.... but HD sells them anyway....a homeowner buys some and you point him out to some inspector who asks you who you were talking to. The inspector leaves with the homeowner to make him do what? Inpsect what he is doing and fine him? How about the inspector goes to the HD manager and tells him to remove the illegal devices and writes them a fine for selling illegal devices. Sounds rediculous to me to focus on a homeowner. It also sounds rediculous to me that AAV's are ok in some places but not in others or that some things are OK someplaces but not others....the entire code and inspection process is somewhat ambiguous since it varies everywhere you go.......Makes ZERO sense to me.

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Rich sadly we can not stop places from selling items that do not meet the plumbing codes. Even the local plumbing supplies carry items that do not meet the plumbing code. That is why it is up to a Licensed Plumber to know the plumbing codes and to plumb things properly. The inspector is not going to fine the guy as long as he pulled a permit and has a Licensed Plumber doing the work. If not the fines will be stiff. A fine for making plumbing modifications with out a permit, and doing plumbing without a license.

I have seem plumbing, building, and code enforcement officers camping out the Lowe's, Home Depot, and such and follow contractors, home owners back to their home to see if they have a permit for the kind of work they bought the material for. I have had a plumbing inspector follow me to a job site after leaving the Depot with 30 foot of Type L 1" copper. When he seen I pulled up on the job site he showed me his license and then asked to see mine, then asked to see the permit for the job, which I had since I was repiping some meters in a meter room. I never get angery with an inspector doing his job.

One of the things I learned the hard way is to call the local building department and ask for a list of what I need to get permits on. Some towns/cities want a permit to just test and RPZ, or change a water heater. We are a nation of rules, we need to follow the rules no matter how much we disagree.

BimmerRacer said:

Even if they sold only legal stuff, that certainly doesn't prevent someone from using them against codes.

Now, back to his situation....no way he's getting to the roof.

The old sink had some thingy on the side which I think was the AAV with two barbed connections coming out of it like an upside down Y. I assume one went to disposal and one to the adjacent dishwasher?

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That is an airgap for the dishwasher. Not an AAV

Bimmeracer ? Well that must mean BMW racer......I DragRace myself....A rear engined dragster..... high 7 second 170 mph

Rich B said:

I live in an older house that had the same type kitchen sink drain plumbing......NO vent and an S-trap. It is a 2 story home so trying to get a proper vent up inside a wall and then up thru a second story and thru the attic and thru the roof.......well that is a heck of a project! I redid the drain all the way back to the main stack. Cut out all the old galvanized and redid it in PVC......added the AAV under the sink.....works perfect......Studor.....If the Nazi's come to my house they better have a warrant......LOL! I've paid property taxes on it since 1971.....I pay sewage fees as well......If I could find the guy/s who allowed my house to be built in the first pace the way it was in 1955 I'd have some questions for them!!!!

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Rich do yo live in Illinois? Some states doe allow AAV's Also you do not need to run the vent through the roof, you can tie into an existing vent system in the attic.

SewerRatz said:

That is an airgap for the dishwasher. Not an AAV

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Ah, ok. I'll look into AAV for him, or rather have him look into it. Does that mean the old way was no venting at all?

Rich B said:

Bimmeracer ? Well that must mean BMW racer......I DragRace myself....A rear engined dragster..... high 7 second 170 mph

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Cool!

Yes, BMW, except for I haven't been on track in well over a year..

Just a Note about Codes

If you do things that do not meet code in your home now, and when its time to sell your home, the home inspector will catch the non-code items and write them up. When that happens you have two choices fix it then or get estimates to fix it and remove the cost to bring it to code from the cost of the home if the buyer agrees to that. Or you can do it right the first time and have no worries later. Oh one more thing sometimes you might do things that you think is good enough, but when an inspector comes in and looks at what you did he can declare your home inhabitable if what you did is seriously wrong.

With anything in life you can put a band-aid on things, take the short cut doing things half assed. Or you can do things right and be proud that you did it right.

No Ron I don't live in Illinois. I have never heard of anything like you describe....Inspectors camping out at stores and following people or contractors to the job. It sounds more like a Communist country your living in! I agree we are a nation of rules and we need to follow them. I generally do myself.....


I did not put that picture up there but it's close....My car is drak blue

BimmerRacer said:

Ah, ok. I'll look into AAV for him, or rather have him look into it. Does that mean the old way was no venting at all?

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Yep a typical S-Trap set up. Just follow the picture Redwood posted, its the bare minimum to ensure it will work.

SewerRatz said:

Yep a typical S-Trap set up. Just follow the picture Redwood posted, its the bare minimum to ensure it will work.

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How high does that thing go? Right below counter height OK?

Rich B said:

No Ron I don't live in Illinois. I have never heard of anything like you describe....Inspectors camping out at stores and following people or contractors to the job. It sounds more like a Communist country your living in! I agree we are a nation of rules and we need to follow them. I generally do myself.....


I did not put that picture up there but it's close....My car is drak blue

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Rich, they even drive around looking for people that do not have a permit doing repairs that requires one. Back when I was younger and less knowable, I went to a job site to dig up a sewer and make a repair. Soon as the spade hit the soil a car pulls up and the code enforcement officer asked me where is my permit, I did not have one so he put a stop work order on the site. I went to the village hall to get he permit, I had to pay a $1000 fine plus the $35.00 for the permit. needless to say I lost money on that job.