tracing water lines (PVC irrigation)?????

I'm trying to work on my sprinkler system to fix a leaky valve. I have to shut off at the stret because who ever put the system in did not put in a shutoff valve. Who or what would I use to try to trace where the piping runs for the sprinkler system? It is a straight line from the street to the house, and they must have tapped into the line somewhere between there. I'd like to find out where. Socal.

I can think of 2 ways. One is work but cheap, the other easy but spendy. You can guess the approximate location then dig until you find it. That will give you direction. The other way is to hire a locating company that has instruments that can accurately find the pipe. If you do this, make a scale drawing and chart the line(s) for the future.

sprinkler

1. If there is no shutoff valve for the irrigation system, then there is a very HUGE possibility that it was connected improperly without the REQUIRED backflow device, unless there is one and the leak is in the line to it.
2. The pipe was installed however the person decided to dig the trench, so there is no way to tell how that was done.

Who ever put this system in, They used high end parts, like the controller and the solenoid valves. The valves are Irritrol 100 series that go for 75 bucks a copy, and I have 12 of them. I replaced a diaphram ($18) and a soliniod ($8) and still the valve was passing water. This is what started me on the slupply side. That being said, one would think they did it properly. Well ...it is obvious that they did not if I cannot shut the damn thing off. All 12 valves (12 stations) are in the far back of the yard in a row. I was thinking that I should start digging around there to find the supply to them. There is a hillside above that has some valves operating, so the valve is the lowest part of those stations. I heard anti siphon valves do not work if they are not the highest of the parts. So, when I find the supply near the valves, I will put a ball valve and maybe some other valve to make sure water does not go back to the house?

It isn't that simple. There are devices called backflow preventers that do just that, and if you are using domestic water, one is required to prevent contaminated water from reaching the water in your home and/or the city water supply. My advice to you is to hire a professional lawn sprinkler company to troubleshoot your system and make recommendations that will not only make it work, but be in compliance with codes. Just because the previous owner used high end materials does not mean the system was installed properly.

Gary Swart said:

It isn't that simple. There are devices called backflow preventers that do just that, and if you are using domestic water, one is required to prevent contaminated water from reaching the water in your home and/or the city water supply. My advice to you is to hire a professional lawn sprinkler company to troubleshoot your system and make recommendations that will not only make it work, but be in compliance with codes. Just because the previous owner used high end materials does not mean the system was installed properly.

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I am almost certain that the people that lived here before hired a legit company to do this work. Also I am not even sure I have a problem (aside from the valve that will not shut off completely). I mentioned that I do not know if there is a shut off valve to the irrigation. Maybe it is burried along with the backflow preventer. Actually my system works fine, and has for the 6 years we've been there. I just have to shut the water off at the street to fix anything....and I no likie! I have no gripe other than that, really.

Backflow preventers should be checked and recertified annually to verify they are working correctly. In my area, the cost is between $25 and $50 depending on the company doing it. The city will shut the water off if this is not done. Without a shut off valve, the irrigation system can not be winterized. That may not be a big issue where you live, but as you have discovered, it is a PITA when you want to work on the system and have to turn off your house water. Again I would stress hiring a lawn irrigation service to evaluate your system. If you have a cross connection device, have it tested, if you don't have one, get one. These devices have valves, so that would also solve your valve problem. Look carefully near the water meter. It should be very close to the tee when the irrigation and domestic side split off. These should not be buried but in a box for access.

Is there no shut off at the meter? Is the irrigation metered separately, to reduce sewer costs? Most backflow preventers would need to be installed higher than the rest of the system. There are some that can be installed underground, but they are expensive ($400+) and unlikely in a residential setting. After you explore the system, I would add a BFP and a wye strainer (100 or 150 mesh) before it if not present. The high flow rates in irrigation stir up sediment in lines and cause problems for BFP, valves and emitters.

Bfp

Backflow preventers DO have to be above the highest head to be legal, and they absolutely cannot be BURIED. A more expensive RPPBFP version will work if it is lower than the system.

chris8796 said:

Is there no shut off at the meter? Is the irrigation metered separately, to reduce sewer costs? Most backflow preventers would need to be installed higher than the rest of the system. There are some that can be installed underground, but they are expensive ($400+) and unlikely in a residential setting. After you explore the system, I would add a BFP and a wye strainer (100 or 150 mesh) before it if not present. The high flow rates in irrigation stir up sediment in lines and cause problems for BFP, valves and emitters.

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It is city water.....the city meter has a shutoff valve before it (city owned) and after it (homeowner owned) If you break your valve(or leaks), you can still shut off the other side of the meter...the city owned side. These valves are less than a foot away from the meter. So, before the water gets to the house, it tee's off somewhere to the sprinkler valves. The consensus is that there should be a shutoff valve on that line somewhere. This backflow thing has got me wondering. As I have said, there are five or six of the water stations up on the hill...above the house and above the valves.

It is not true that all backflow preventers have to be above ground. Some do, but the better ones are mounted below the lawn surface in a plastic box for easy access. While I do not consider myself an expert on the subject, I have had such a device for almost 25 years. This is approved by the State of Washington as well as my city, it receives annual re-certification inspection by a licensed inspector. Regardless of the type, they should be inspected annually as they do wear and require occasional repair as any mechanical device does, and it certainly should not be buried

Bfp

It IS TRUE that irrigation backflow preventers MUST be above ground AND above the highest head, although the height requirement is often ignored. The correct ones are combination backflow preventer/vacuum breakers and the internal "vent" has to be open to the air AND not underground where it could be enveloped by water or any other contamination. A simple double check valve, which could be buried, is not approved for irrigation systems., or for most other potential backflow/siphonage situations, other than commercial fire system connections which are a special case. And even they are being evaluated for potential hazards.

HJ, I don't want to start an argument here, I certainly respect your knowledge on virtually everything having to do with plumbing. However, we are on a different page on this backflow preventer issue. My system was designed by a professional irrigation company in 1984. They prescribed a double check backflow preventer to be installed below the ground surface. I recall at the time of having a choice between the type that must be above the highest point in the system and the double check. I opted for the double check device. The original installation was checked by the Yakima City Water Department annually for several years, then they turned the inspections over to private individuals who must be certified inspectors and approved by the City. When the inspection is performed and the unit passes, a copy of the inspection is sent to the city. If the inspection is not performed by a certain date, the city will shut the water off. Now, I can't debate the technical details of what I and hundreds of other users in Yakima use, but I do know it is not a makeshift or oddball device, and it has been inspected 24 times, repaired 3 or 4 times when the inspections showed it was beginning to show wear, and not once has there been a question or comment about the fact that is sets below the surface of the lawn. The State of Washington and the City of Yakima take cross contamination seriously, so let's find our common ground and put this to rest.

This is getting interesting. I've never ever heard of any type of inspection here is SoCal (San Diego) of irrigation systems.....and everybody(90 percent) has one. It makes sense to have them checked unless the city has one built in to protect themselves(neighbors).

Bfp

Then you have a very lenient inspection department. Here, the pressure type vacuum breaker is the MINIMUM requirement, and some even reject that in favor of the higher level reduced pressure principal one. NONE of the agencies would even consider a double check as a proper device.

There are not required on irrigation only lines that are not tied into a domestic supply. These connections are frequently referred to as cross connections. Knowing how strict California is on so many environmental issues, I would be amazed if this is not addressed in their codes. I have heard of some jurisdictions that do not enforce the use or inspection of these devices, but none were in California that I can recall. Many hose bibs that are connected to household water supplies have an anti siphon feature build in which will accomplish the same purpose. The URL below will take you to the Watts web site where you can read about the various devices available from them. The on I use is similar to their 007 model.
http://www.watts.com/pro/_products.asp?catId=65

Here in Illinois the minimum allowed backflow preventer used on irrigation systems is a RPZ valve. Also the Illinois code has made it mandatory that all irrigation companies must hire a licensed plumber to inspect the installation of the irrigation piping and sign off on it prior to it getting buried.