Flapper Technology

Terry,

Love your site. Am looking to remodel my bathrooms, and I demand a good toilet after years of leaks, flapper replacements, etc.

I like the G-MAX system concept but my general question is:

1) Are there toilets created that don't need flapper replacements? I couldn't tell if the Toto Ultramax flapper is plastic/rubber from the picture. I don't see why someone hasn't created a system that doesn't need a flapper or uses an indiestructible flapper, although I suspect it is hard to get a "sudden" rush of water into the bowl easily without the flapper being quickly yanked up from the opening.

But, I would be interested if you have a quick bullet point on flappers and toilets, or perhaps add some comments to your website.

Regards,

Jeff

Niagara makes a "flapperless" toilet that essentially uses an elevated bucket of water that gets dumped down into the tank, initiating a flush. They also sell them under the Pegasus/Glacier Bay brand name. Unfortunately, many people find the flush substandard and weak; and the Pegasus/Glacier Bay toilets seem to often be poor performers in general.

Do you use bowl cleaners that you place in the tank? If so, that's the reason you have frequent flapper problems. That stuff kill rubber components. Not to say that flappers don't wear out, they do, but not so often that it should be a reason concern. Those so-called flapper less toilets will make the flapper replacement the good old days. If you want a top performing toilet that will give you reliable service for many years, put in a Toto. Just avoid the in-tank bowl cleaners.

IF you have large water pipes, an alternative would be to use a more commerical flush valve that doesn't have either a tank or a flapper. But, these often require a 1" water line or so. Few homes have these, and you can't just increase it at the point of use...you won't get the required flow.

Plumbing systems of all types commonly use rubber parts as the means to make a seal...for a pipe joint or valve...in this case the flush valve. Rubber eventually wears. Ceramic and metal to metal technologies exist in some cases, but are quite costly, and have other drawbacks.

Absent a chemical attack on your tank, most good brands of rubber flappers should see a few years of reliable service. The blue or red rubber compounds are little more expensive, but may last a little longer.

The more complicated we make any system, the more prone it is to costly and frequent maintenance. Witness the urine recyling system on the space station, which still does not work, after a few billion dollars and several "house calls" into space!

A rubber flapper is about as basic a system as there is. If you find a better mousetrap, patent it!

On the AS4's, they have a 10 year no-leak guarantee on that blue membrane disk......even though one of the AS4's I installed was leaking at that same part 6 months after I installed it.


I didn't have a new one, there was a slight blister on the edge that was causing the leak. I flipped it over, been 5 months since I did that.

However, that's the first I've heard of anything in regards to a common known component with that type of warranty.

Remember that flappers are job security, always. I'm not saying that from a plumber's perspective, I mean that from a mfg's perspective. Parts inside the tank always fail, it's always going to be that way too.

If water is eating through copper pipe that never ate through that same pipe before,

How in the fark do you expect a rubber flapper to hold up through all that?

Not a chance. Still haven't figured out why water municipalities have permission to push such acidic water out of their treatment facilities.

It's like,

Take care of the train wreck, but ignore the ever so random fender benders, slight problems that lead to bigger over time. GAHHH!!!!!!