Patching Lead Pipe

[xroad]

The 4" lead vertical pipe coming down through the basement ceiling meets up with a 90* elbow then goes horizontal downstream. Right before the vertical pipe meets the elbow, there is a 2" horizontal lead pipe that "T" into the 4" vertical pipe. This 2" horizontal pipe is about 12 inches long before it elbows upward again, into the the basement ceiling. It is a vent pipe, I believe. The 2" elbow is all corroded. I was told that it drips once in a while. Maybe when there was a clog, water backs up into the 12" of horizontal 2" vent pipe and reach the elbow. Anyway, it obviously have a hole at the elbow. How do I patch it? A piece of lead and a small torch to melt the edge of the patch to the pipe, covering the hole? Tight space! Silicone caulking? Epoxy ... the gummy tootsie roll type that cures to hard as rock? Cut, remove, replace? Again, tight space.

Need recommendation.

[jadnashua]

Post a picture...

[nhmaster]

You get a torch near that and the lead will disappear faster than an Oreo at a weight watchers meeting. Best solution, take it out and re-pipe.

[Redwood]

You get a torch near that and the lead will disappear faster than an Oreo at a weight watchers meeting. Best solution, take it out and re-pipe.

I would agree...
Time to get the lead out!

[xroad]

Oh-Keeeeie ..... Thanks guys. Fire is out.

Sorry, no pictures. Tried a couple of shots, did not turn out very well.

Never work with lead before. How do I take it out? There is not even a joint or fitting. The 2" pipe just seamlessly "T" into the 4" pipe. Same for the elbow, it just seamlessly turns upward.

Assuming I can cut out just the elbow part, can I get a rubber boot type elbow with steel hose clamp at both ends? How soft are these pipes? Will it collapes if I torque down the hose clamps?

[Redwood]

You probably want a plumber for this job...
Where does the lead end?
I'm talking we are taking the lead out....
New closet flange right to the cast iron...
Where does the other smaller line that ties into the lead go?
The tub?

[xroad]

This leaking 2" lead elbow only leaks once in a blue moon. A plumber came in and worked on something else looked at it and he said it's probably a vent pipe. Maybe that is why we rarely see water drip from it.

Like I mentioned earlier, it "T" out of the 4" vertical lead pipe that came down from the basement ceiling that fits into a 4 inch elbow. This 2" lead pipe turns up again into a wall upstairs. This elbow is pretty close to the subfloor of the floor above.

[hj]

You, and the majority of plumbers, do not have the skill to work on that piece of lead and repair it. Even taking it out and replacing it could be beyond your level of incompetence. It is usually much more complicated than just, "Cut it off and change it to PVC/ABS". Call a plumber.

[nhmaster]

I would assume you are referring to the old slipping Fernco on the tapered bushing routine? :D

[hj]

That and using a Fernco to do it, as starters.

[Gary Swart]

Then may I assume that Mighty Putty would not be an acceptable fix? Darn!:D

[xroad]

OK, it is too complicated of a job for me, and most plumbers ..... so how DO a well trained plumber do it? Please use layman terms. Lots of words you guys throw around is beyond me, but I am willing to learn.

[cwhyu2]

I think the best thing to do would be to send some pictures.I can repair lead
pipe as I was trained by an old master plumber and it was in my journeymans
test the first year of my apprenticship.If you want to fly me out I`m sure could fix it.

[nhmaster]

Then may I assume that Mighty Putty would not be an acceptable fix? Darn!:D

Billy Mays here for Mighty Putty

You can clean up later with SHAM WOW

[xroad]

Is this some kind of old world high tech secret that no one wants to talk about it? Now I am just so curious about what the big deal is. Not that I am believing it is simple job. I DO believe that it is beyond me, and most plumber. I am just curious, just like when I read an article on how a jet engine works, I had no intention to tear into one. For a usually chatty forum, this topic is pretty quiet.

[SewerRatz]

Is this some kind of old world high tech secret that no one wants to talk about it? Now I am just so curious about what the big deal is. Not that I am believing it is simple job. I DO believe that it is beyond me, and most plumber. I am just curious, just like when I read an article on how a jet engine works, I had no intention to tear into one. For a usually chatty forum, this topic is pretty quiet.

Trouble is that lead waste and vent piping is a dead art. Here in Illinois they still allow us to use lead piping for DWV, but the trouble is 99.9% of the plumbers have no idea how to work with it. My sponsor was an old world plumber that taught me how to wipe lead and make my own lead shower safety pans, and pipe. Its mostly a learned skill with the right tools and materials.

Now for your situation any plumber worth a grain, can remove your lead piping and install new PVC, abs, cast iron or even copper piping to solve your troubles.

[cwhyu2]

Thats right Mr,Ratz it is a lost art in fact the word plumber is derived the
I think latin word plumbum which means lead.I have wiped joints,installed lead shower pans,and cut out enough lead to make fishing sinkers to supply the
fishermen for a long time,now the ? is why is OP reluctant to have the job
upgraded.

[xroad]

...,now the ? is why is OP reluctant to have the job upgraded.

Hi cwhyu2,

I am not sure what the question is? "Upgraded" means remove all the lead pipe instead of repair that leaking section? At this point, I don't even know what my options are. I have been asking lots of questions and got not much answers. Maybe the answers are in the comments posted and it is just me not understanding it. So far, I got the recommendation of calling a plumber that can do lead.

Well the house is over 100 years old. Rip out all the old lead pipes is not an option for now. It is a two family house. Too much impact to tenant and finance.

[cwhyu2]

Okay I lived in 130yr old farm house for 20yrs and understand your concerns,
if you can post a picture, that can help me help you.
The only suggestion I can give you is a temporary fix,take a wire brush
and clean the area of the leak real good and apply JB weld two part epoxy.
Not the putty but the stuff in the tubes,$8.00 at your local hardware.

[xroad]

Okay I lived in 130yr old farm house for 20yrs and understand your concerns,
if you can post a picture, that can help me help you.
The only suggestion I can give you is a temporary fix,take a wire brush
and clean the area of the leak real good and apply JB weld two part epoxy.
Not the putty but the stuff in the tubes,$8.00 at your local hardware.

Thanks a million for the help.

Some projects are obviously over my head and I should call a pro. Many, can be learned if approach slowly. That is what I am hoping to get from this forum. Otherwise, every thread in this forum will only be discussing which plumber is good and which is bad and provide their telephone numbers.

Pictures ... I'll have to wait till the next time I am at my mother's house, 2 hours away! Stay tune.

[cwhyu2]

Okay glad to help.
Clay

[master plumber mark]

I have a lot of special plumbers epoxy that I have to use on occasion to fix nasty things like of what you got...

you clean the area off well, then put the epoxy on the area
and apply it on there liberally.....


another option that will work....for only 4 bucks.....

go out and buy a full tube of 100% clear SILICONE.....

simply clean the area up good and get it 100%dry...

then plaster the whole tube all over the whole area

apply it on liberally...

get a fan and help it to dry quickly....that will work...


if it is a sloppy enough job, you can post it to
my PIG SLOP PAGE when you are finished...

[xroad]

Maybe I am analyzing this a bit too much ...

Epoxy ... would the thermal property difference the lead and the epoxy allow the adhersion to separate over time as the two material expands and contract differently?

Epoxy ... Being hard, would vibration, not that I expect much, affect the adhersion?

Silicone ... starting to look good, although seems a bit unauthordox but practically speaking sounds good.

Like I said earlier, I have no intention of attempting the "proper" fix because of the complexity and skill level required. I sure like to know what this "proper" fix entails ... something about "wiping lead".

[cwhyu2]

Well like I said anything you do to that lead would be temporary,A wiped joimt is a way of connecting lead to brass,in your case you would goiing lead to lead.It is not easy to solder lead,I have done it but it is a learned skill.
Do a temp fix and when you are ready replace it.
Clay

[Redwood]

Is this some kind of old world high tech secret that no one wants to talk about it? Now I am just so curious about what the big deal is. Not that I am believing it is simple job. I DO believe that it is beyond me, and most plumber. I am just curious, just like when I read an article on how a jet engine works, I had no intention to tear into one. For a usually chatty forum, this topic is pretty quiet.

Well the problem is most of the guys who did this stuff aren't doing it any more...

A lot of them are here...

http://www.archdioceseofhartford.org/images/cemetery013.jpg

What we are saying is that all the lead in that leaking section has to come out and be replaced. You cannot join the new material to the lead.

[cwhyu2]

Well the problem is most of the guys who did this stuff aren't doing it any more...

A lot of them are here...

http://www.archdioceseofhartford.org/images/cemetery013.jpg

What we are saying is that all the lead in that leaking section has to come out and be replaced. You cannot join the new material to the lead.
Hey I`m still here!I think.:rolleyes:

[Redwood]

Hey I`m still here!I think.:rolleyes:

Yea but you are in a minority...
There are more of the guys who did lead work there, than there is here...

[cwhyu2]

That is a fact and like I said before I ripped out more lead than repaired.

[xroad]

Thanks all for your help. I'll post photos later when I get a chance. Someday, when the opportunity presents itself, the lead will be gone for the bathroom remodel.

I think knowledgable steam heat professional is also becoming extinct. I have so many plumbers offering me at my house, my friends at their houses, and my mother at her house to replace the entire steam heat system, boiler and radiators, with hot water baseboard etc, etc. The steam heat system is working fine, once balanced. I think the plumbers are looking for a big job.

As for reliability, I have more of my friends and relatives looking to fix a hot air system & hot water system more than steam heat system. I think steam heat system have less stuff to go wrong. For me, only the millivolt generator needs replacing every few years.

[Redwood]

Billy Mays here for Mighty Putty

You can clean up later with SHAM WOW

I hear the Sham Wow guy is quite the ladies man...

http://www.nationalledger.com/ledgerpop/article_272625492.shtml

[cwhyu2]

And I really liked the SHAMWOW,now I just want to get a mop.:eek: