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big dripper
08-16-2010, 06:05 PM
After reading many many pages of this thread I conclude the following:

2 - the oldtimers continue to rip on this product based on no personal data - not one has actually spent the $600 to test it and make an educated opinion or conclusion

If you have no data to support your "opinion" - then don't post anything....

Well, I don't think I would need $600 to throw away. Beside, I have the perfect test results: removing them from customers' houses where they didn't work, customers were unhappy and recommendations never came. Laboratory results are helpful but not always the only way to tell if something works.

"No data to support opinions" That is a valid statement and I believe what most people ask of those selling these is where are certifications and documentation from leading research facilities and not just 'testimonials' paid for the the manufacturer in the advertising.

No, from what I see, most members here don't routinely bash those new members simply because there is a disagreement. But this piece of equipment commonly appears on forums and no brick and mortor dealers sell these because they would have to stand behind them. I have replaced many of these (or rather left them on) with great results by employing sound water treatment tested by time and proven by customer reactions and recommendations.

enb54
08-16-2010, 11:29 PM
For those who believe they're on to something new and revolutionary, kept out of the limelight by the bad old regular water softener companies, please note that a quick search of the U.S. Patent database (you can patent just about anything without proving that it works) at freepatentsonline.com disclosed the following patents from 1926 to nearly the present day. Note that all of these (a quick smattering, there are many more "patents" along the same vein) imply or state that there is some kind of electromagnetic way (not involving gigantic MRI type power consumption) to affect lime scale (non magnetic material).

Try the "simple home experiment" described in an earlier post by me, but here are some representative U.S. Patent numbers so you can make your own decisions about whether you want to buy in (I know most have a lot more money than me!) to this "technology."

U.S. Patents

1773275 (1926), at http://www.freepatentsonline.com/1773275.html
2596743 (1946), at http://www.freepatentsonline.com/2596743.html
2652925 (1949), at http://www.freepatentsonline.com/2652925.html
5074998 (1991), at http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5074998.html
and 5776334 (1998) at http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5776334.html

are indicative of the stuff you can find (and it has been going on for a long time!) if you start digging.

If this "technology" actually works, ever wonder why all the big wholesale/hardware/retail chain stores are not selling it and the government/military won't use it? Of course, I do understand that there is a lot of money to be made in this business, so no amount of evidence will convince many people that they have been "had" by some smooth talking sales pitch, complete with psuedo-scientific sounding gibberish. That (being "had") even happens with some of the "free home water tests" and inflated claims of performance (with commensurate inflated prices) for some equipment that actually works. The best way to treat hard water and combat scale is by doing your own very careful research, do not let anyone hard sell you on ideas that are not provable through modern chemistry and physics. You likely have a reliable local plumbing company or even a big box store that can steer you in the correct direction to solve your specific problem.

The science that sent people to the Moon and in the future perhaps Mars, actually really does understand water treatment, conditioning, and softening systems and the technology that makes them work effectively and reproducibly... well 97% anyway...

That's it for my way more than $0.02 worth, everyone will have to do their own research and reach their own conclusions, but there are a lot of people out there who want your money, and don't particularly care how they get it...

OOOPPS! ... Those were "filing dates" so I guess I'm one of those "Bad Boys"...

Hope you all do your research well, but remember that predictable and reproducible results are what you learned in grade school...

losthwy01
08-28-2010, 10:10 PM
I have been looking in to this thing for a while. I am no expert but here's what I found.......

1. It uses patented tech. that has been proven enough that British Gas recommended it for their customers.

2. The tech was developed by Hydro Path in the UK. It has been widely used in Europe, and Australia for almost a decade.

3. In my opinion the price is too high right now to be viable in this country.

4. The people distributing the product seem unsavory, and use high pressure. I called once for a price, and they kept pestering me for weeks.

5. Do not lump the product in with magnetic type units. If it does what it says, it is not that different from the radio waves used to break up kidney and gallstones. Be aware that the junk is still in the water, it just isn't sticking together, or to your pipes. Once it comes out it could still leave a film depending on how bad the water is. The use of the product seems to be for protecting plumbing, not exactly for softening water.

6. Some communities in California have already banned salt water systems because of the ecological damage. If this spreads, the tech may be the only answer.

If you try to buy it from another country, you may find a better price. The distributors here seem to act like hucksters, and that give it a bad name. I was quoted $500 for the small model, in England you can find it for about $150 US, but I 'm not sure if they can sell in the US because they would be stepping on the American distributors toes. Hydropath, Hydroflow, Hydrocare, Same.

lsmith8305
08-30-2010, 11:13 AM
I have to agree with Gary and others that have written in, this product will lighten your wallet, but little else. And I'm speaking as a customer who purchased one of these little boxes. I spent weeks researching this product and could find countless comments about it's wonders. I also found many skeptics, but no one that had actually used the product and reported dissatisfaction.
Well, I'm here to tell you. I used the product and I'm very dissatisifed. I received the product June 7th. It was difficult to get the company to give me any receipts or even tracking information on the product once shipped. Still only received a generic shipping label sent by HQ Hometek, Inc. We installed the product that weekend. Well it is now August 30th and the water pressure is so bad I just paid my plumber $285 to replace several valves and unclog all of my fixtures. What a piece of junk. Don't buy this product. If someone offers it to you...run away!

enb54
10-20-2010, 05:59 AM
I have to agree with Gary and others that have written in, this product will lighten your wallet, but little else. And I'm speaking as a customer who purchased one of these little boxes. I spent weeks researching this product and could find countless comments about it's wonders. I also found many skeptics, but no one that had actually used the product and reported dissatisfaction.
Well, I'm here to tell you. I used the product and I'm very dissatisifed. I received the product June 7th. It was difficult to get the company to give me any receipts or even tracking information on the product once shipped. Still only received a generic shipping label sent by HQ Hometek, Inc. We installed the product that weekend. Well it is now August 30th and the water pressure is so bad I just paid my plumber $285 to replace several valves and unclog all of my fixtures. What a piece of junk. Don't buy this product. If someone offers it to you...run away!

I can't believe our state/provincial governments (yours and mine) still allow this kind of stuff to be sold to consumers, we might as well get in the business ourselves, at least we'd make some money!... just kidding... You would think that for something that is pretty well proven not to work, that someone, anyone (in government) would step in and put a stop to it, but I guess it is not killing anyone, just a financial embarassment to all those who buy it and discover that it is like a sugar pill... a placebo. And as human beings, it is hard to admit that you've been had, especially when you try to do all the due diligence and still get bamboozled by all the double speak the sellers of these devices give you.

On a lighter note, my fiancee and I just spent several days down in Kalispell and weather was good, left some tourist dollars, had a terrific time and a great visit but didn't buy any Hydrocare... :)

Gary Slusser
10-20-2010, 07:48 AM
Why would you want to take the freedom of choice away from anyone while allowing the government to make our buying decisions by making something illegal?

In this case lsmith said he was told they didn't work, and bought one anyway. That was his decision and he pays the price of not listening. That's as life should be, we should be free to make mistakes because really, that's how we learn, from our mistakes and if we don't, we get to make the same mistake again another day until we do learn.

About Jethro not spelling well... If governments keep up taxing'n spending more than they collect while paying no attention to next year, or the years after, you might be kissin' up to Jethro Bodine and his kind just to survive, literally.

enb54
10-20-2010, 04:20 PM
Hi Gary and all...

You know, it is like when I used to work for a large corporation and people were whining about how they could take care of their pension money better than the investments that were made by the corporate pension fund people. Well, they got their wish finally, and now most are whining about why the company could have ever let them do it (they lost big time in the recent crash) when they didn't have the expertise, nada, nada to run their own investments. Sometimes people have to be protected from themselves, because they don't usually only hurt themselves, their families are affected by their decisions also.

Now don't get me wrong here, I am solidly in favour of taking responsibility for your own decisions, but when you are dealing with people who only have one goal and that's to flim flam your money out of you, they unfortunately are much better at it than you are at resisting. Ask any magician about why their magic works and they'll tell you it's all about "misdirection." Very smart people are taken in every day by con artists who know a lot more about human psychology than the average person, especially when selling "no recharge salt required" and "only pennies a month for electricity."

Anyway, yes I agree that too much government is not good, and government spending should be the way we spend, if we get into too much debt our car gets reposessed and so on, while the government just prints more money. I'm just whining that con artists should be taken out to the back forty and given a good thrashing and a big fine, then regulated out of business... in a perfect world anyway... Say, didn't there used to be people called "regulators" before sheriffs and police and stuff? :)

Thanks Gary and all... a very interesting discussion...

P.S. Don't you think the Clampetts were likely much smarter than they appeared, they kept all their money away from Mr. Drysdale didn't they? :)

valveman
10-21-2010, 07:54 AM
Well as much as I hate to promote the continuation of this thread, I have to add my thoughts on “government regulators”. Misdirection is a good word. Although I think misunderstanding or lack of education on technical subjects is more correct. Either way, “regulating” is less about helping the people as it is about “feathering the regulators nest”. There was a time when government regulators where actually looking out for the best interest of the public. Now with the economy, jobs situation, and everybody thinking they are entitled to life, liberty, and happiness, this is no longer the case. The “regulators” I deal with seem to be more interested in protecting their jobs and an early, cushy retirement than actually helping the people. If they solve the real problems, they would be out of a job. So they use misdirection to make people think they are trying to help, when in reality they are perpetuating the situation to maintain their position and salary. I see this happening from the lowest government official to the commander in chief himself.

One case in point is the lead scare tactics. If you know anything about California Prop 65 you should understand this. Prop 65 requires that all lead be removed from plumbing fixtures, pipe, and fittings. Even though a small percentage of lead is an important part of many metals, and there has never been a problem with lead leaching into water, the government is determined to protect us from this “non-problem”. They get to say they are protecting us from the big, bad corporations that are trying to poison our children with leaded products. They go so far as to say “the 800 million dollars that this will cost California alone, will be more than offset by decreased health problems and better jobs for citizens, since they will be more intelligent from the decreased lead exposure”.

The government used the real scare of kids chewing on Chinese toys coated with lead paint to enact tons of regulations that don’t make our water supplies any safer, but just cost us more for products and justifies billions of dollars spent on government policies and salaries. Now the federal government is determined to follow California, so it will cost the public 800 million per state. BTW, they are “helping” by making us switch from products with less than Ĺ% of lead to Stainless Steel which has 15% Chromium. “Misdirection” at it’s finest.

Another case in point is government mandated or subsidized energy savings programs. Again government knows more about using this to create more government jobs than how to actually save energy. There is a lot of “misdirection” on this subject as well. We should all get out and vote for candidates who are for smaller government. If we could just turn out the lights at these unnecessary government agencies, it would save more energy that all the government programs put together.

Dano6401
10-21-2010, 06:01 PM
Kudo's to Valveman and Mr. Slusser. The whole base of capitolism is selling folks things that they don't need. If the government gets involved in this you can all kiss the home shoppers network and infomercials goodby. As long as the product is not harmful or overtly dangerous then Caviet Emptor should rule the day.

Vote early, vote often, vote Republican

Gary Slusser
10-21-2010, 07:36 PM
Sorry, I don't agree that capitalism is based on selling products that are not needed.

Also, most products are not sold on TV or advertised in infomercials; they are looked for and purchased in stores etc. where someone has taken a financial risk in stocking and offering the product to people that need and/or want the product. Or they sell online and have their suppliers ship the product to the customer.

valveman
10-22-2010, 08:11 AM
I think capitalism gives people the right to choose their own destiny. You should be able to reap what you sow. Those of us who reap what we sow have no problem helping those who are physically or mentally unable to do any reaping or sowing. We also have no problem using what we reap to protect our country from enemies foreign and domestic. However we should not be responsible for helping those who are physically and mentally able and are just too lazy or think they are too good to do any sowing. No one is entitled to reap what somebody else is sowing, simply because someone else is sowing more than they are. And we certainly do not want to give what we reap to professional politicians who purposely cause problems or refuse to solve problems in order to live a life of reaping without having to sow.

As far as the market place is concerned, Caviet emptor should rule the day. People should be able to purchase anything they want with their own money, even if it is not good for them. Ie; transfats, alcohol, cigarettes, firearms, power hunger big screen TV’s, HC38’s, etc.. They should only be punished if what they do with it will harm someone else. Ie; drinking and driving, bodily harm with a weapon, etc. In the same way companies should be punished if they knowingly produce a product that could harm someone without labeling it as such. Ie; cigarettes, alcohol, poisons, acids, prescription drugs, etc.. But as long as it is labeled and used properly, people should be able to buy acid to correct swimming pool water chemistry, firearms for hunting or sport, cigarettes and alcohol for their own enjoyment, medical insurance if we want the best in medical treatment, etc, etc..

Our founding fathers knew power corrupts and therefore government is not capable of making these decisions for us. They wrote the constitution to protect us from government officials who think they know better than us. Our current government really believes they know better than us and they are doing everything they can to break or dilute our constitution. Therefore I will vote for republicans as a means to vote against democrats. However, I would prefer the opportunity to vote for some of the people, so our government could go back to being of the people, by the people, and for the people. That would mean we would need to draft people to vote for, as anyone who wants to be a politician, should be immediately disqualified. Vote for those who are for less government, and make them keep their promise by voting out incumbents who have already been there too long.

If you sow, get out and vote. Because others are voting to reap what you have sown.

Dano6401
10-22-2010, 11:54 AM
Less government is better government but I don't think things like dynomite should be sold to just anyone. As for the stuff that they are talking about here, at least they took some time to see what other people say about it before spending the money which is good.

tmp9a59
11-05-2010, 06:56 PM
Big Dripper, your "results" are more valid than the testimonials presented by the peddler (or at least of the same quality, no offense :)) since there is no truly definitive proof that the method actually works.

If this were the break through product, it would be easily proved with an objective trial from a truly independent 3rd party.

tylerw8cpa
11-29-2010, 01:28 PM
Hi Scott,

You posted back in June of 2009 stating that you had ordered this and said you would report back. I cannot find where you reported back. Could you please let me know what your experience was?

Thanks.



Actually Sport, I have been an advisor on ****.com for about 15 years. (name not allowed on this site) I just found this forum while looking around the internet for more info on this product and thought Iíd weigh in. I assume thatís acceptable to you. Now itís the web, and people can make up what they want, however I have been in this field since 1984. I have held a master plumber, gas fitter and pipe fitter card since 1998. I have run pipe many people have not even heard of including several different types of acid waste including Durion, Glass, Fuseal and Enfield, soldered up to 6Ē copper on hotel jobs, run Cast iron to 16Ē including lead and oakum joints and no hub as well as compression, stainless steel, all the plastics for waste and water and even sprinkler. I have run a small repair company and school, college and other commercial project s and have served as a project manager and estimator in Richmond Va for major outfits, am a radiant floor heating designer and consultant as well as a trainer for a major tankless water heater.

So, I think my opinion counts for a little something. I too have seen things come and go (Quest) and seen promises not live up to expectations. However if everyone had their head up their butt and refused to try new things in the field you sir would still be riding a horse to work and screwing galvanized pipe together. (Which I have also done)
I advise anyone to keep an open mind on things and do their own homework! Instead of just spouting off something negative because you wish to show how smart you are.

I donít know much more about this thing than you, however I do know someone who has it and wears by it that I trust. Once mine is in, Iíll report back. My guess is some people will still disregard it and thatís fine. Itís a free country...at least for a little while longer. Have a nice day.

http://www.terrylove.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7795&stc=1&d=1246468317

Redwood
11-30-2010, 09:15 AM
Hi Scott,

You posted back in June of 2009 stating that you had ordered this and said you would report back. I cannot find where you reported back. Could you please let me know what your experience was?

Thanks.

Hi Tyler,
I haven't seen Scott posting here since last July I don't know Know If he will be back to answer you or, not.

I can however give you an unbiased answer from my Magic 8-Ball...

Does the Hydrocare HC38 work?

11918

my2cents
12-06-2010, 05:15 PM
Guys the problem is you seem to be arguing over the purpose of a softener vs the hydrocare unit. Regardless...your argument against the unit (forgive me) does not hold water. its not physics it is chemistry You are looking for aragonite...this is what you get instead of scale when you apply alternating current. Aragonite is formed instead of the scaling due to water saturation, hence the powdery residue instead of the hard scaly former deposits. Yes, the unit can and probably does work to stop the formation of hard scaling on pipes and fixtures, and could have an effect on the usage of soaps as well.
No I dont own one and no I dont sell them, just thought this argument seemed a little uninformed.

Redwood
12-07-2010, 10:31 AM
Guys the problem is you seem to be arguing over the purpose of a softener vs the hydrocare unit. Regardless...your argument against the unit (forgive me) does not hold water. its not physics it is chemistry You are looking for aragonite...this is what you get instead of scale when you apply alternating current. Aragonite is formed instead of the scaling due to water saturation, hence the powdery residue instead of the hard scaly former deposits. Yes, the unit can and probably does work to stop the formation of hard scaling on pipes and fixtures, and could have an effect on the usage of soaps as well.
No I dont own one and no I dont sell them, just thought this argument seemed a little uninformed.

Right!
So by you own admission it is not a water softener!
This is good we are making progress here....
It is not a water softener.

Now...
Lets move on to the anti scaling properties of this unit...
The often cited anti-scaling report cites results from a closed loop system where the water is recirculated on multiple passes....
I'm going to say Bravo I agree with that!
In fact the closed loop multi-pass system is the only place where these units have shown any promise of working in a descaling application....
See we are making progress here...
You have just convinced old Redwood of 2 positive aspects of this device...
We are in agreement and in tune....
This is next to impossible.....

Screeeech... Crash!
We knew this was coming....
It was only a mater of time....
Time to put down the crack pipe son the party is over....
What the heck are you doing promoting a device that has only shown promise in testing on a multiple pass closed loop system, for installation on a single pass open system?

Lets bring on the subjective testing results....
I use less soap....
My water feels better...
My showerhead looks cleaner...

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2/Redwood39/avitars%20and%20emocons/crackhead.jpg

my2cents
12-07-2010, 01:52 PM
What are you yapping about? The unit does have the ability to change the quality of the water...as aragonite is formed, it draws the minerals to it, preferring not to adhere to surfaces. Thus it is capable of preventing scale build up, and it also has the much desired ability of removing existing build up from any surface the new "treated" water comes in contact with. Regardless of the type of system. As for the soap...well it will react differently with the aragonite structures present in the water, so chemically there will be a change, whether that is perceived as a pleasing one or not would be a matter of personal preference. This technology would certainly remove build up in say water heaters, toilets and the like. The benefit of removing existing build up in water heater would (if the build up were heavy) certainly result in better heater performance, ( more heat for less fuel=less cost.) I am not aware of other desired benefits of water softeners? Personally, I have paid $$$ to drink mineral water, so I am not against the minerals in the water for drinking purposes, I would imagine that the top complaint of people with hard water is the damage done to appliances, mainly washers, heaters from the scale??? Am I wrong those of you who sell water softeners? Why are you against a product that can stop that damage? If you are looking for the 'how can it?'...I just told you how. Its not really all that complicated, and is very very similar to what you accomplish through the products that you water softener guys sell. Its just less expensive, and less work. Time to find a new item to sell, thats all.

Redwood
12-07-2010, 04:16 PM
Its not really all that complicated, and is very very similar to what you accomplish through the products that you water softener guys sell. Its just less expensive, and less work. Time to find a new item to sell, thats all.

LOL there you go with the circle jerk right back to claiming it does the same thing a water softener does....

Which it doesn't!

The anti scale properties only come into play in a multi-pass closed loop system which is not a domestic hot water system...

The domestic hot water system is a single pass open system....

Good luck buddy you aren't selling anything here....
Better go find that new item to sell....

I've given you the 2 points and you should be happy with that not go back and try to reargue them....

Hillbilly Man
12-07-2010, 05:02 PM
No I dont own one and no I dont sell them, just thought this argument seemed a little uninformed.

Yep I don own one o dese gizmo's either.
Seems lik a buncha snake oil ta me.
An you seem like a travelin snake oil sales man.

Now git on along befour I pepper ur butt with a load a rock salt out o ol betsy.

my2cents
12-08-2010, 06:53 AM
You sir, are wrong. Chemical reactions are not constrained by open or closed looped systems, the reaction prompted by the alternating currents will occur in any plumbing situation where there is water with the minerals present. That sir includes domestic plumbing, ANY plumbing. Ignorance of the principals involved in this reaction does not excuse you from presenting a "professional" opinion which could mislead consumers. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt here, assuming that you are not INTENTIONALLY giving false information. To anyone in doubt and looking to find more info...search aragonite, and how it is formed, and what its properties are-then you will be well informed enough to make a decision for yourself about the potential of these units to perform the functions that you and your particular system need.

Redwood
12-08-2010, 09:32 AM
You sir, are wrong. Chemical reactions are not constrained by open or closed looped systems, the reaction prompted by the alternating currents will occur in any plumbing situation where there is water with the minerals present. That sir includes domestic plumbing, ANY plumbing. Ignorance of the principals involved in this reaction does not excuse you from presenting a "professional" opinion which could mislead consumers. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt here, assuming that you are not INTENTIONALLY giving false information. To anyone in doubt and looking to find more info...search aragonite, and how it is formed, and what its properties are-then you will be well informed enough to make a decision for yourself about the potential of these units to perform the functions that you and your particular system need.

No sir!
It is you that has the crackpipe dangling off of your lips....

If you had the faintest clue of what the information you are citing was about you would know that Aragonite is a thermodynamically unstable form at standard temperatures and pressures so the only time your unit shows even a glint of promise is in a multi-pass closed loop system.

Have a nice day and stop back later when you have factual data to bring to the table.
Your misinterpretation of data and the smoke & mirrors in your presentation are much like bringing a knife to a gunfight.
Pardon me I'm off to rattle some chicken bones and cast a voodoo spell on on some water...
Oh wait....
I don't have to do that I'm a believer in the Ion Exchange Method of water softening which does work...

my2cents
12-08-2010, 04:19 PM
lol Red wood. Again I will say to all those reading who are contemplating this unit, get off this site and go search aragonite, and then you will have your answers, do not trust these bullys who apparently are so afraid of change, I think they could stand in the rain and deny they are wet.

Tom Sawyer
12-13-2010, 03:37 PM
Aragonite is unstable at normal pressures and temperatures, and changing ordinary calcium and magnesium into arogonite by any practical and reasonably inexpensive processes is not chemically possible. Notice that for all these wonder gizmo's, there is never any testimony or clinical proof that has been done by respected chemists.

Gary Slusser
12-13-2010, 05:27 PM
Notice that for all these wonder gizmo's, there is never any testimony or clinical proof that has been done by respected chemists.
Not meaning to defend electronic water treatment, I'm just saying...

I have seen some cause white powdery material all over sinks, showers etc. wherever (hard) water was allowed to evaporate.

Scientists.... until 25-30 years ago, scientists mistakenly taught that there was no life on the ocean floor.

And some 20+ years ago, for close to 20 years before that, all but a couple said long run out landslides were not the cause of long run out land slides although they saw the evidence of long run out slides in many locations around the world.

We have heard of global warming for 15 years and all of a sudden we find scientists were lying about the data but... we are only 10,000 years out of the last ice age (which I hear the cycle is about 100,000 years) and I think we should be warming, I just don't agree that mankind, and especially us Americans, are responsible for it as the democrats and some republicans claimed.

Tom Sawyer
12-13-2010, 05:38 PM
Yes, but there is plenty of real scientific evidence that does not support the claim. There are still many many things to discover but I'm pretty sure the evidence on this subject is all pretty much in. I did read through the rest of this thread and scattered in among the obvious plugs there are many web sites that do a real good job of explaining this stuff.

JBJ
01-06-2011, 07:11 AM
First time poster here. Am interested in the product and like all here, goggled and found this site looking for "truth." I think I've seen a lot of mixed comments, some well intentioned, some with a lot of . . . BS. To put some of my thinking right up front without pretensions . . . I am skeptical. For $600 plus, it may be best to be . . . skeptical, right? Which leads me to some basic questions.

The product just clamps onto a pipe and after being plugged into an electrical outlet, emits radio . . . waves, beams, signals, or . . . . what-nots, right? ? But it's radio and electrical in some, most or all ways, right? And such a seemingly simple device costs $600 and higher for the bigger units, eh?

I have these Ridde X electronic units that chase away (or prevent somehow) bugs and rodents from coming into your home. You just plug it into an outlet (maybe more than one depending upon the size of the home) and boom, no more bugs or rodents. Now I'm not promoting them and not commenting on how effective they've been in my house, but they, too, have a money back guarantee and are sold at Home Depot, Lowes, Bed, Bath and Beyond and many other places BUT for just about $10 to $12. If the marketplace of free ideas and vastly new products (shown every Sunday in the many local newspapers advertisements and promotions) doesn't contain sales pitches and prices for this new water aiding product, but instead has a "peculiar" (yes, peculiar) marketing methodology that "hides" the price from the consumer until a slick sales person has access, then what should an average skeptic think? These are not sold anywhere except through specialty houses at incredibly HIGH prices. Does anyone dispute the word "high?" And yes, they are hidden until the last minute or you read them here.

Now the Ridde X electronic bug things are very controversial, too, as to whether they actually work. But the big difference here with their and many, many, many other products is that they're sold everywhere and anywhere there is a profit to be made. It's unfortunate but usually the case that the reseller rarely if ever cares if the products does whatever it claims to do. Period.

Why isn't this simple (seemingly) device sold for $19.95 -- oh wait, if ordered within the next 10 minutes you get a second unit, just pay for separate shipping and handling? Why in the world is this "radio" device costing $600 plus dollars? What say you proponents of these devices? Yay or nay? Or do you really just have no idea?

IMPORTANT: At least one posting (page 17, I believe) says a $500 small unit price in the US was just $150 US in England. Wow, wow, wow. What a difference. If this were at the $150 price, I'd probably try it out, but to gamble, yes it is gambling $600 plus, plus (I need a bigger unit), seems to be insane, unless you have money to burn.

Query: Couldn't I just hook up my Ridde X bug thing, or a radio thing, to my water pipes and save a bundle of $$$ money? Or on the other hand, if these water ionizer device companies wants to give it to me free and take my supportive commentary for their use, I would be happy to do so. --JBJ

JBJ
01-12-2011, 07:35 AM
I just got an email response back from Hydrocare on the cost of a unit that is hidden in all advertisements --yes hidden until you make special inquiry -- and for between $600 and $1200 some on this site would suggest that one relies on the WAG claims and opinions about the effectiveness of these products without more? ? ? That's irresponsible. Totally.

The proponents of this product and presumably the sponsor of this site would support voodoo commentary to suggest expending such large sums of money on the basis of "radio waves, sounds, signals, or what-nots" sent into water pipes by simply wrapping something around a water pipe??? Cannot we all just hold hands in a seance and say . . . "we want better water!" Should this not be a $14.95 product available at your local Bed, Bath & Beyond or similar outlet?

--JBJ

billinjax
01-18-2011, 04:04 PM
I live in Jacksonville Beach, FL and purchased one of the HC44 units December 2009. To be honest I can't really say that the unit worked in my situation. It is possible that the hot water seemed hotter but can't be positive. The unit failed the one test that I watched throughout the year that I used it. Previous to moving to our current location we lived in a home that had a conventional salt water system. My test involved my Gillette double blade razor. I replace my blade every 3 months. While living with the salt soft water after 3 months the blades had no white sediment or calcium buildup on them. I felt that if the Hydrocare worked I would see similar results. For the first three months living here we only had hard water and I could see the deposits on the blade after 3 months. Once I installed the Hydrocare I assumed I wouldn't see any changes for 4 months since their guarantee wants you to wait at least 4 months to see the results. Well for the whole rest of the year the blades every 3 months looked the same as when I had only hard water.

Anyway I can say that I got a full refund from them when I exercised my rights under their year money back guarantee. I originally paid almost $600 and they very quickly credited my credit card. I assumed that I would have been referred to a retention specialist but that never happened. She simply asked did the system not work for you? I said no and she said she would have the credit back on my card within a couple of days after they get the unit returned.

Tom Sawyer
01-18-2011, 07:15 PM
Well, it's good that you got your money back. I'm not surprised that you did though. They are smart enough to realize that screwing around with the guarantee would invite even more negative attention.

Tom Sawyer
01-18-2011, 07:16 PM
Good for you. Not surprised though. They aren't going to screw around with the guarantee and invite more bad press

JBJ
01-25-2011, 07:40 AM
Can I get an AMEN to this: The Voodoo HydroCare (doing something to your home) water system is scientifically unproven and many on this site's community feel radio waves, frequencies, signals . . . or what-you-call-its . . . are not magic elixirs to solving hard, similar or any water problems? For $14.99 or $19.99 -- or even a tad more -- it may be worth trying out. BUT for $600 to $1200 dollars for just one little tiny unit, it may make more sense to visit one of the many growing casinos in you area to see if you can win enough money for some better units to purchase and solve your water issues.

I think you made a real good decision Billinjax and by reporting it here are immensely helpful to working people thinking of forking over substantial sums of money in pursuit of something that is unlikely to materialize.

Tom Sawyer, I spend some time in SW MI and have seen a lot of trucks with logos and advertisements for a similar type of product under a different name in your neighborhood. While the product and the wrapping around the pipe and the claim of the "radio wave" is somewhat similar, yet slightly different, the product ends up being identical in effect to the HydroCare. And the cost for their fancy looking system was over $1,000. Where is P.T. Barnum now?

I still think if we hold hands in a seance or just touch our key boards at the same prearranged time, we can accomplish the same thing as these "radio wave" products. (I don't sound too negative on them, do I?)

JBL

P.S. I see no one has addressed the issue of why the price of these kind of units are so very high compared to the units in other countries. As pointed out, in the UK it was only 25% or less of the U.S. price. Ah, but only in America can one hope to make more money. Wonder why the Chinese haven't jumped on this yet. I'm sure they could sell it for $29.99.

Tom Sawyer
03-17-2011, 05:21 PM
They come like vampyre's in the night............................................. .......

Akpsdvan
03-17-2011, 07:21 PM
If it needs to be explained, then it is lost.

Akpsdvan
03-17-2011, 08:34 PM
While this might work on the very large scale, it often does not work on the home or homes in question as there is just not the flow of water needed for it to work.
Water in the home is running no more than about 70minutes out of the 1440 minutes with in any 24 hour time frame.

Tom Sawyer
03-18-2011, 03:28 AM
Ak, it doesn't work on any scale (pun intended) LOL

Tom Sawyer
03-18-2011, 03:28 AM
So be it, if you don't feel people need to understand what you post.

You got your bump, be happy with that

JoeBeamish
03-18-2011, 07:07 AM
I had one of these installed when replacing our ancient electric water heater. With the one year guarantee, I figure what the heck. Well, after almost 12 months, no good. Did not reduce build up on toilets, sinks, coffee pot etc... Now, I'm not sure what the scale situation is like in the water heater, but I'm guessing since the minerals are not taken out of solution they will eventually end up on evaporative surfaces. Just hoping they'll give me my $500 back.

JKERN
03-18-2011, 07:55 AM
People can beat this thing to death but the fact is and it is a FACT that on the majority of situations these things do absolutly nothing. Most of the people that sell these things are predatory dealers at best not to mention for the cost of them you can up your dollar amount a bit and get a softener that actually works. The reason why people in the water industry have pretty standard ways of doing things is because they are tried and true methods developed over years of discovery. And for the sake of wanting to be scientific if any of you think that these magnets work or any other electrical contraption have one of there dealers actually give you papers from an accredited university backing the theories up. I bet they can't because they don't have any, no one with any kind of degree would touch this hocus pocus scam crap with a ten foot pole. The bigest problem why these things stick around is because people want to believe that there is another way to treat water without a softener. Take five minutes to think about this don't most of you believe that i as a equipment dealer would rather go to someones house and wrap some coils around a pipe and plug it in and be done than have to spend more than an hour building equipment then installing it and coming back later on to make sure everything is operating properly. Five minutes versus an hour and almost the same price after installation it should'nt take a rocket scientist to figure out that if these things worked and worked well that every person in our industry would be selling them. But they dont, because they are utter crap.

Tom Sawyer
03-18-2011, 12:20 PM
Thank you JKern

Akpsdvan
03-18-2011, 01:30 PM
Which flavor of Kool Aid are we doing?

Why have the items not gone through the WQA?

Is there a WQA on any of the units?

Why are they only on the internet and not a real store?

JKERN
03-18-2011, 02:52 PM
I do not need to inform myself on the hydrocare or any other type of these units. What this item is a gimmick and nothing more. When Cornell, M.I.T., or N.A.S.A. release studies showing these things work then I'll buy into it. But until then I'll keep dealing with pissed off customers that got flat screwed out of their money because shadey sales people fed them a line of B.S. And by the way I've dissasembled many of these contraptions only to find that the power cord provides electricity to the little light and nothing else. So if someone is wanting a very dimly lit night light mounted on there plumbing pipes I will recommend this product but if they want treated water I'll stick with proven technology.

Akpsdvan
03-18-2011, 03:39 PM
Going to the Hydroflow is that like going to the Ford or Chevy web site so that we can see just how good the cars are by their words?

That is just flipping rich........


This thread is going no where because it is the same old information coming out about the product that really does not work.

Now if you got lucky and it works for you great... but stop telling others about it as I know that I have seen way to many at the dump because they did not work and no one would give any money back.

Would one of the mods please close this, this horse is way past dead.

JKERN
03-18-2011, 03:54 PM
Your right it's beaten till it's glue.

Tom Sawyer
03-18-2011, 04:31 PM
I wish to thank you gentlemen for taking over the reigns of this argument. For anybody that really is interested in this subject this site and the real life scientist that owns it will explain to you all the impossiblity of changing water chemistry with magnets, radio waves, electrical current and voodoo. I have met and spoken with this gentleman on several occasions. I assure you that he is a for real chemist and scientist

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/

Akpsdvan
03-18-2011, 06:30 PM
Some of us just call it the way we have seen it.. and if that hurts or does not go along with your thoughts or ideas then so be it.

Truth of what happens in the real world and not the lab are two different items.

This is kind of like the idea that cars are getting 45mpg, what is not said is that
A) controlled lab
B)Best fuel or even a cleaner fuel than what you and I get down the street
C)Car or truck has no weight other than maybe a driver.
Is it any wounder that the car is getting such great mpg?

And if this is Using Radio waves,,,,,, joy............ ever live close to a 50K radio station?

Hillbilly Man
03-18-2011, 07:05 PM
First of all I don't like Kool Aid, so I can't answer that question.

Hay Dere Miguel Good ta see ya don't like that Kool-Aid.

Ya Reckon dis gadget wood make my whisky taste better.

Seam it duz everything else....

Gary Slusser
03-19-2011, 08:15 AM
For those that want the thread to die, a simple suggestion, y'all could use a bit of self discipline and simply stop posting in it and then whining about the thread continuing. Or.... I can moderate your whining.

Tom Sawyer
03-19-2011, 08:18 AM
Why, has anybody violated the rules here?

rat4spd
03-19-2011, 07:58 PM
Some things never change.

Terry
03-19-2011, 08:18 PM
68,000 plus views, why stop it?
Let's keep it rolling. It's kind of fun to read the back and forth.

Tom Sawyer
03-20-2011, 04:19 AM
My thoughts exactly. Most of the posts have been respectful, a few have been sarcastic but for the most part there have not been a lot of insults. It's a good thread and pretty informative if anyone wants to slog through it all.

Gary Slusser
03-21-2011, 11:20 AM
I guess you missed this; "Would one of the mods please close this, .....". As a mod or not, I don't agree with closing it.

Tom Sawyer
03-21-2011, 01:09 PM
Yep, did miss that, sorry. It's been a good thread though so far and really, the only one on the web that has extensivly talked about these things also. Unfortunately too many folks get bamboozled by those radio adds on Hannity and Beck. I have even tried emailing Hannity and Beck and asked them to take a look at this thread but naturally, either they didn't read or are more interested in advertising dollars than helping their listeners.

Terry
03-21-2011, 01:43 PM
Advertising dollars.
It does matter.

Years ago, when my brother was working with Ralph Nader, he was commenting of the dearth of reporting on the issues he was working on. Everytime he would put information before congress, there would be someone walking down the isles before big votes handing out $10,000 checks to everyone in the room. I told him that he was kind of cynical. He said I would be too after a while.
Then as months went by, I started noticing the advertisements in major publications trying to explain their position, the position that was opposite to what my brother was working on. Which by the way is costing all of us much more money every day.
But no news stories. Wow! No discussion of what was going on in the capital, but big ads in every publication explaining why they were charging Joe Public so much money, and no second viewpoint.
Yeah, dollars win a lot of the time. I get to hear a lot of the back stories from him. It's pretty interesting.
He has now split off into his own venture. http://keionline.org/

http://keionline.org/vectors

BV
01-09-2012, 12:53 AM
My thoughts on this,
I understand the idea behind the device but, the device in the picture is nothing more than a pet rock.

1) It would need way more power to actually clean a house full of copper pipe, not that I believe theres even a small chance that what I see in the picture really does something. A wild guess would be at least 20 amps.
2) There goes any possible savings you hoped to get from using it.

I have no plans to buy one.

Thanks for the thread.

Tom Sawyer
01-09-2012, 01:49 PM
Yea, you would probably need a neuc plant in your back yard with a direct line to the generators

puby
02-24-2012, 11:52 AM
You may want to check this company (Hydrocare) out with the BBB (Better Business Bureau) at www.bbb.org/east-texas/business-reviews/gift-shops/hydrocare-in-tyler-tx-28032637. You can then judge for yourself.

Scott D. Plumber
03-09-2013, 07:41 AM
You may want to check this company (Hydrocare) out with the BBB (Better Business Bureau) at www.bbb.org/east-texas/business-reviews/gift-shops/hydrocare-in-tyler-tx-28032637. You can then judge for yourself.

I would agree with this statement. It's been a while since I've visted this forum. More just busy than anything. As a complete follow up to my dealings with this company I thought I would share a bit more since it has been quite a while since this first got going.

I have now 2 of these devices in my own home. Why? Well honestly I already had one and got the other from a customer return who did not like it and I installed that one too just for giggles.

I'm running 15gr hardness and my twin Rinnai system has been in for about 6 years. Never have serviced them...on purpose, to see how long they take to lime up. So far sso good. I clean the filters out a couple times a year now.

As for the Hydrocare, we quit selling them to our customers. After dealing with their sales manager who sold them like a carny at the fair, the over promises from the MFG were just too much to bear. When customers did not see the dramatic results promised, they would get upset and want their money back. If you could get a response it was some excuse. (We never promised more than we thought it would do but the company sure seemed to) I heard their guy in person telling people things like their shower doors would clean themslves and the lime on their counters will miraculously dissapear. Crap like that.

I want to be clear, I still think it works. I still have mine in, and I have no plans to take them out. HOWEVER I understand what I believe this thing is capable of and what it's not. It is not a water softener. I can't deal with folks who overpromise and underdeliver though and it's hard enough to retain good customers without someone overselling their widget.

Take it however you want. That's my experiance with this company and the product.

gmrules
01-11-2014, 11:13 AM
I just checked back in and I cannot believe what I started with a simple question...

I enjoyed reading it