Where can I purchase pressure tanks and switches?

[riverside67]

Hello all,

I am new to these forums and have recieved a ton of great information from one of the regulars here (valveman).

I need to find out where I can research pricing and find the following items.
45 gallon pressure tank (Amtrol or Flexcon)
80 gallon pressure tank (Amtrol or Flexcon)
80/100 pressure switch to control 10hp, 3 phase vert trubine well (Square D GHG 80/100)

Thanks!

[Gary Slusser]

I'm sure Valveman mentioned a CSV and a small tank. That is wha tI would suggest. I don't think those tanks you mention are big enough to properly cool a 10 hp motor between starts.

[riverside67]

Without going into great detail about my specific scenario it has been recommended to me to have a 45 gal tank at my well and an 80 gal tank at my home.

Yes, I will also be using a CSV prior to my first tank. Valveman assures me I will have approx 35 gals available before my pump will be called on. After those 35 gals are exhausted the CSV will allow the pump to continue to run until demand drops off and then the 35 gals of reserve will again be established.

At least this is how I interpret it will all work.

[Gary Slusser]

And as soon as your pressure falls 10 psi the pump comes on, and then it runs until the water use falls off and it runs until the large storage volume is replaced. Personally, unless I'm missing something, I wouldn't go to the expense of the large tanks, I'd go with a 20 gal or just you 45 gal.

What is the 85 gal at the house supposed to do for you?

[valveman]

At 80/100 a 20 gallon tank only holds 3 gallons of water and a 40 gallon tank only holds 7 gallons of water. With this size system using a 2" CSV, the tank fill rate will be 5 GPM. You need at least 2 minutes of run time so 10 gallons draw down is minimum. However, this is a deep well turbine pump without a foot valve. So we have air from the static level coming up every time the pump starts. This means it will be a couple of seconds after the pump starts before the water gets to the surface. Therefore the larger tank(s) will supply water to the house until the air gets out and the water from the pump is available. The larger tanks will also keep this big pump from having to start very many times for house use. You can flush a toilet many more times with 35 gallons of drawdown, than with 7 gallons of drawdown, before the pump must start and refill the tank(s). I suggested putting one tank at the pump because that is where the pressure switch is. That tank will work at 80/100, so another tank at the house will be seeing 40/60, and will give more drawdown than if at the well because of the lower pressure.

[ncgeo]

Hughes Supply (formerly HD Supply), which I believe is nationwide, sells Flexcon (Challenger) tanks and Square D switches

[speedbump]

I think you have it backwards. Hughes supply is the old name. Then along came HD and bought them out. Unless they changed ownership back to the old way.

They are also Wholesale only. They aren't supposed to sell to homeowners.

bob...

[ncgeo]

I think you have it backwards. Hughes supply is the old name. Then along came HD and bought them out. Unless they changed ownership back to the old way.

They are also Wholesale only. They aren't supposed to sell to homeowners.

bob...

Yeah I was there Friday they are still called HD Supply. But no longer affiliated with Home Depot.

Here they do sell retail (called a cash sale) but like any supply house generally sell to contractors. I'm glad they are also willing to sell to persons who are somewhat familiar with at least some aspects of this trade.

[speedbump]

Here they do sell retail (called a cash sale) but like any supply house generally sell to contractors. I'm glad they are also willing to sell to persons who are somewhat familiar with at least some aspects of this trade.

I'll bet you are. You probably paid near list price though. If not, these guys would be stoned by the contractors that do frequent the place.

Leave it to Home Depot to ruin an otherwise decent wholesale supply house.

bob...

[ncgeo]

The local branch here is very helpful and reasonable with their prices. But I do walk in there generally knowing what I am talking about, so its not much different for them in dealing with me over a tradesman.

I have no problem paying maybe a 10% or so upcharge over the trades but can't understand paying full retail. Is my money less green?

[speedbump]

What you don't understand is that it is a wholesale supply. It's main reason for existing is to supply contractors with the items they need to complete a job they bid on and are licensed to complete. HD and Lowes etc. are retail for the diy'er. There are lots of people out there who know just enough to be dangerous and think that because they have a little knowledge of a given trade that gives them special privalidges and the right to buy at 10% above wholesale.

Just because there are greedy salesmen that will sell to you doesn't mean that it's right. I for one used to boycott wholesalers that sold to the general public as did many of us. This also hurt their business quite a bit.

bob...

[kingsotall]

The end of this thread is rather interesting. Home Depot has referred people to HD Supply when they didn't have what they were looking for. Maybe the conversation should be, "If we don't have it, maybe a licensed individual can get it at a supply house and complete the work for you."

[speedbump]

I would have to believe that was because HD owned HD Supply. They don't have a clue about wholesale. All they know is how to sell cheap stuff to homeowners and contractor wannabees. When they bought Hughes, I think they might have bit off more than they could chew.

bob...

[ncgeo]

What you don't understand is that it is a wholesale supply. It's main reason for existing is to supply contractors with the items they need to complete a job they bid on and are licensed to complete. HD and Lowes etc. are retail for the diy'er. There are lots of people out there who know just enough to be dangerous and think that because they have a little knowledge of a given trade that gives them special privalidges and the right to buy at 10% above wholesale.

Just because there are greedy salesmen that will sell to you doesn't mean that it's right. I for one used to boycott wholesalers that sold to the general public as did many of us. This also hurt their business quite a bit.

bob...

Hi Bob, I'll respectfully disagree with some of your philisophy on the operation of supply houses. I don't believe it is illegal or unethical for a supplier to sell to unlicensed individuals just as it is not for Lowes or HD, unless of course a license is required to buy that item (i.e. refrigerant) Certainly someone buying in quantity is entitled to some discount but selling at MSRP to one individual and 1/2 MSRP to another is gouging pure and simple. Yes they absolutely want your business as a volume buyer but it should not be at the expense of blocking out other individuals; that is borderline unethical. It should be entirely up to the supplier whether or not they want the hassle of dealing with occasional customers, some may not and I'll respect that decision. But there shouldn't be any protectionism going on here.
I agree there are many who know enough to be dangerous and they shouldn't be doing work requiring a license but that is an entirely different issue, and not for the supply house to monitor.

It was very much like you described with supply houses when I lived in the northeast. It got to the point where you had to masquerade as a tradesperson which was ridiculous.

On a more objective note I've been told that everyone pays sale tax on material purchases here in NC and not just the final retail buyer. So the whole tax exemption issue with wholesale purchases may not be an issue.

[speedbump]

The word Wholesale should mean something. Distribution is another word that was basically invented by the Manufacturers to distribute their wares. The manufacturer not only does not want to deal with the end user, but neither does the distributor. They deal with professionals. The idea is they have more time to get the items together that the pro needs so he can pick them up in a timely manner. The distributor is not there to educate the public on the proper names of each and every item he would like to buy. While this is going on, the pro who would really like to get to the counter and get his stuff so he can get to work is waiting while joe homeowner is being educated. Then here comes the homeowner again the next day with the item to return because it's the wrong color, the wrong size or it just didn't work right. This is what HD and Lowes are for. They have people working there who can put up with this nonsense and because of that they charge about 10 to 50% more than the supply house might.

By the way, the wholesale supply house also has a license to sell to the pros. It's called an occupational license and it is issued for the wholesaler to sell to the pros, not the general public.

You may find that when the economy gets back on track, which it will in spite of what the government is doing to help. You will find it harder to get the counter guy to wait on you, because he is busy helping the people he is familiar with who frequent his place everyday and are in a hurry to get to work.

bob...

[ncgeo]

Yeah I would be annoyed too if there was someone in there with no clue holding up things for everyone else. I just have an issue with restricting sales to "pros". These days with the widespread availability of information (like these forums) it is not so easy to define a pro. A plumber who mainly works faucet repairs in the city probably has less knowledge of water wells than I do, and I mean no disrepect to the plumber. Who is going to take more time at the counter buying a well pump? A supplier shouldn't be so quick to judge the abilities of someone based on a company name or lack thereof.

It's a gray area .. where does a supplier draw the line in who to sell to and who not to sell to? Maybe if they enforced a no-return, or surcharge for return policy, they could steer away those with no clue. Just don't close the door on me because I have no sign on my truck!

[speedbump]

Used to be; that was the rule. No license, no sale. Greed has taken away that aspect with a lot of the suppliers.

Things change, but not always for the better.

bob...

[valveman]

I might add that it is very risky business for a wholesale house to sell to an end user. If the contractors find out, they will see this as the wholesale house going around them, and taking their customers. Contractors will switch to a different supply house and even change which brands of pumps they sell, to be able to offer something that a homeowner cannot get at the same price.

[ncgeo]

I'm sorry guys I call this protectionism. A contractor should rely on his skills and abilities, and not a closed supply chain, to protect his business. And a contractor doesn't want to sell me equipment without services. Seems like there is a good gig going with this arrangement, I wouldn't want to lose it either.

The problem I have is availability of materials outside of supply houses. As an example I'm not aware of any local retailer selling Myers pumps. I go to supply houses not for lower prices, but to buy stuff I can't get elsewhere.

[speedbump]

If you want to buy Myers go to Tractor Supply and get their pumps. They are made by Myers. Or should I say Pentair, who really owns Myers. Go to Lowes or HD, where they sell Water Ace, they too are Myers pumps. They just have cheaper motors on them.

If you want to buy from a Wholesale/Retail outlet who will offer you a discount, go to my site and shop to your heart's content. I do both. That is the reason Contractors in my area refuse to buy from me. I used to be one of them, except for the fact that I have a store front and can buy from the manufacturers. I also get the manufacturers pricing not the wholesalers. I am what is called a Nitch business. I prefer to call myself a taint business. I taint a Wholesaler or a Retailer completely. I do both. And this is an accepted enterprise. The difference between me and the big box store is that I sell nothing but quality, not quanity. And I can get very close to their low low prices while still selling quality. You also deal with me directly, not some aproned crony stocking the shelves.

So, if you want friendly (matter of opinion) come see me, I'm your guy. Nobody will get mad at you and you get quality at a low price. How could you go wrong.

bob...

[speedbump]

I go to supply houses not for lower prices, but to buy stuff I can't get elsewhere.

By the way, what do you do with all this stuff you buy? You wouldn't be doing unlicensed work would you?

[Gary Slusser]

Ronaldg, the government establishes business laws and usually manufacturers and their distributors are not allowed to sell to the end user; the homeowner. Their distributors sell to their dealers and we sell to the end user. The manufacturers don't want to hear from you or the dealer and the distributor doesn't want to hear form you. Most vehicle and clothing, electronics, appliances, etc. etc. manufacturers are set up the same way. So IMO you do not know what you don't know about all this.

HD, Lowe's, Sears etc. do not sell the same quality pumps, tanks, softeners etc. that us distributors' dealers do. And usually the product name or model, the warranty and specs is lower, less and shorter. Example, Ecowater makes all the big box store brand water treatment equipment, yet they make a much better version for the Ecowater dealers. The big box brands have a 90 day to 3 year warranty with 1 year on the control valve; the 3 yrs is for the tanks, all other control valve manufacturers warranty their valves for at least 5 yrs non prorated and 10 yrs on the tanks. The same happens for well pumps and tanks. I used to be a Gould's and Starite pumps dealer, you haven't seen either in a big box store and probably never will. You pay list from a distributor or you buy from a dealer or you buy something with less quality.

As to forums and info, you are debating and denying a lot of accurate info provided by pros that post here. You want things the way you want them and that isn't possible, so you need to shop locally with the help of your yellow pages or accept the advice you get here and buy online or find a local pump supply house in your yellow pages that will sell to homeowners; if they will you usually pay list.

[ncgeo]

By the way, what do you do with all this stuff you buy? You wouldn't be doing unlicensed work would you?

it is not illegal for an unlicensed person person do to work on their own equipment as long as the work is permiited and inspected.

[ncgeo]

Ronaldg, the government establishes business laws and usually manufacturers and their distributors are not allowed to sell to the end user; the homeowner. Their distributors sell to their dealers and we sell to the end user. The manufacturers don't want to hear from you or the dealer and the distributor doesn't want to hear form you. Most vehicle and clothing, electronics, appliances, etc. etc. manufacturers are set up the same way. So IMO you do not know what you don't know about all this.

HD, Lowe's, Sears etc. do not sell the same quality pumps, tanks, softeners etc. that us distributors' dealers do. And usually the product name or model, the warranty and specs is lower, less and shorter. Example, Ecowater makes all the big box store brand water treatment equipment, yet they make a much better version for the Ecowater dealers. The big box brands have a 90 day to 3 year warranty with 1 year on the control valve; the 3 yrs is for the tanks, all other control valve manufacturers warranty their valves for at least 5 yrs non prorated and 10 yrs on the tanks. The same happens for well pumps and tanks. I used to be a Gould's and Starite pumps dealer, you haven't seen either in a big box store and probably never will. You pay list from a distributor or you buy from a dealer or you buy something with less quality.

As to forums and info, you are debating and denying a lot of accurate info provided by pros that post here. You want things the way you want them and that isn't possible, so you need to shop locally with the help of your yellow pages or accept the advice you get here and buy online or find a local pump supply house in your yellow pages that will sell to homeowners; if they will you usually pay list.

Hi Gary, I'm not aware of the government allowing or disallowing who a distributor can sell to, but you may know more about that than I. I know the manufacturers won't sell to me; they prefer to deal in quantity to established dealers. And distributors naturally would prefer the large trade accounts. But they also service the professionals that buy just once. I'm really not much different from that individual as far the distributor is concerned. I'll pay a premium, but is it really ethical for distributor to drain my wallet for the same amount of effort by the counterperson?

You echo my point exactly regarding Goulds and Starite, I can't get them anywhere except a distributor. If I want Water Ace I'll go to Lowe's but if I want Myers where can I go? Suggesting I buy online is a loophole in itself which bypasses the distributors; **** or most of the online stores are just huge electronic flea markets selling to anyone. Wouldn't the distributors want a piece of that business? More frequently now the answer is yes. Again I'm willing to pay a premium, just treat me fairly.

I truly do respect the knowledge you guys have and could hardly debate or match your real-world experience. The information presented on these forums is invaluable. But that is not the issue being discussed in this thread. The issue is being effectively locked out from buying supplies due to antiquated, ambiguous, and inconsistent policies.

I wish you guys would be more open minded on this. These forums, and the internet as a whole, was made possible by a bunch of non-professional hackers. Much of it is programmed by those without formal credentials. Maybe we should have suppressed their good work as well.

All this being said I'm going to lay low on this topic now. I sense we're debating an issue that isn't going to be resolved by any of us, and I conclude we disagree on this.

[ncgeo]

Hi Gary, I'm not aware of the government allowing or disallowing who a distributor can sell to, but you may know more about that than I. I know the manufacturers won't sell to me; they prefer to deal in quantity to established dealers. And distributors naturally would prefer the large trade accounts. But they also service the professionals that buy just once. I'm really not much different from that individual as far the distributor is concerned. I'll pay a premium, but is it really ethical for distributor to drain my wallet for the same amount of effort by the counterperson?

You echo my point exactly regarding Goulds and Starite, I can't get them anywhere except a distributor. If I want Water Ace I'll go to Lowe's but if I want Myers where can I go? Suggesting I buy online is a loophole in itself which bypasses the distributors; **** or most of the online stores are just huge electronic flea markets selling to anyone. Wouldn't the distributors want a piece of that business? More frequently now the answer is yes. Again I'm willing to pay a premium, just treat me fairly.

I truly do respect the knowledge you guys have and could hardly debate or match your real-world experience. The information presented on these forums is invaluable. But that is not the issue being discussed in this thread. The issue is being effectively locked out from buying supplies due to antiquated, ambiguous, and inconsistent policies.

I wish you guys would be more open minded on this. These forums, and the internet as a whole, was made possible by a bunch of non-professional hackers. Much of it is programmed by those without formal credentials. Maybe we should have suppressed their good work as well.

All this being said I'm going to lay low on this topic now. I sense we're debating an issue that isn't going to be resolved by any of us, and I conclude we disagree on this.


Interesting, **** was the name of the largest online auction when I composed this reply. I wonder why it was filtered and not some other trademarked names. Must be a coding error by one of those non-professional hackers :-)

[valveman]

The Internet has created a global market. DIY people have more information available (like this forum), and more products available to them, so there is a lot more people doing it themselves than ever before. In the past a supply house would have never risk selling to and end user. However, thanks to guys like Bob, the supply houses know that you will be able to purchase what you want from somebody. They realize they will lose out on a sale if they don't help the end user. So more and more supply houses now offer "cash" sales to individuals. Only time will tell what the Internet will do to the manufacturer, distributor, dealer, then end user chain that has been used for years. Pricing on the Net now lets people see just how many times products are marked up before they get them.

There are now many places where the end user can purchase directly from the manufacturer. Installers are going to need to start charging what their labor and expertise is really worth, and stop trying to make their profit on the equipment mark up. There is a real art to installing pumps. Some home owners may luck out and get things installed correctly, and not have many problems. However, knowing where to put a little extra tape, how much slack to leave in the wire, and a multitude of other little things that installers learn the hard way, are what separates a DIY from a professional installation. Sometimes just knowing where to put a little extra tape, or not, can make the difference between a pump system lasting 1 year or 20 years.

[riverside67]

So where can I find a Square D pressure switch that will work at 80/100 in conjunction with a 3 phase - 10hp verticle turbine well?

Thanks

[speedbump]

You can crank a GSG-2 up to 80/100. Any switch will work with three phase if your using a contactor.

bob...