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pjsammy
02-17-2009, 03:21 AM
Hi all,

We recently moved into a new home (built in 1985) and have a leak from the spout in our tub/shower. I *think* we have a Delta 600 series fixture in there, but I'm not 100% positive (see pic #1 below). From extensive online research, I'm thinking the spout leak can be cured by either replacing the cartridge or possibly just the seals. The two big problems I'm having are 1) not being able to remove the cartridge and 2) figuring out what model I have so I can take the cartridge to the store (or website) to buy the correct parts. When I called Delta the CSR couldn't really help me at all given the age of the faucet and that we're not original owners.

I think I need to take off that brass "collar" before the cartridge comes off (in pic #2), but it just turns in place - not really unscrewing. Do I need to put a pipe wrench or channel locks on the collar or at that ribbed piece? Or somewhere else? I replaced a cartridge at our previous house and that was a piece of cake (I think it was a 1700 series from 1997). I'm frustrated I can't figure this guy out!

Any advice on what model we have and how to take it apart would be EXTREMELY helpful. I have a whole bunch of projects at the house and this leaking spout is the one that's killing me!

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to try and give as much detail as possible. Thank you.

[sorry for the big 2nd picture. I wanted to try to include some detail]

jimbo
02-17-2009, 05:57 AM
It is a Delta 1300 series. Readily repairable with a BIG caveat:

You can cause fatal ( to the valve!) damage if you try to unscrew that cartridge retainer nut with too much force. It will twist off some vulnerable tubes further inside. If you take off the round plate, you will see these tubes. First, we can see in the picture that mineral and gunk have affected that screw on nut. Start now applying white vinegar all around the nut. Repeat several times a day for a few days. Then GENTLY try to unscrew, but not too hard.


The most used techiniques to remove the nut are these :

a) Carefully apply heat to the nut with a small torch. This will tend to expand it and allow it to unscrew

OR

b) using a small hacksaw blade held in hand, or a Dremel wheel, slice through the nut, being as careful as possible to not damage the underlying body threads. These threads are not part of a seal, so it is not too critical.


Regardless, you will want to replace the nut, and they are readily available at plumbing supply stores ( not necessarily blue or orange.) Your trim is also readily available, but the antique brass color may not be.

The cartridge you need is RP19804. The limit stop mechanism on the new one has changed from yours, but it is completey the correct replacement part. Just follow the instructions for the limit stop.

pjsammy
02-17-2009, 07:27 AM
Thanks for the prompt response!

Knowing it's the 1300 series is HUGE!

To make sure I fully understand, the cartridge retainer nut is the ribbed ring between the brass collar and the cartridge itself, correct?

Let's just say a certain person happened to try to turn that ribbed ring with a pipe wrench recently and it happened to turn counter-clockwise only about 3-5 degrees. What are the chances that that was enough to cause some fatal damage? Should I consider cutting an access panel on the otherside of the wall to inspect? (the other side is in the master bathroom and would be pretty easy to cut into for checking). We used the tub last night for my son's bath and I didn't notice any major problems (yet). If I had done some damage, would it be apparent after using the tub?

Thanks again!!

jadnashua
02-17-2009, 03:16 PM
Take the escution (sp?) off and look. If the tubing is crimped closed, you might have a big problem! It should be evident if you look. Some people just literally tear them off.

Gary Swart
02-17-2009, 07:12 PM
I was recently faced with somewhat the same problem. I could my valve apart OK, but the antique brass is history. All that is available is chrome. I did my self a favor and made my wife happy at the same time by replacing the entire valve with a Delta 1700. This give you anti scald and you can adjust the flow as well. I'd advise going to a "real" plumbing shop. Sometimes the Delta parts and fixtures at the Big Box Stores are not of the same quality as specialized shops carry. The price isn't too much higher, and you can get excellent advice if needed.

pjsammy
02-18-2009, 05:40 AM
Thanks for the tip. I certainly considered replacing the whole valve, but I think that's a little over my head at this point. And rather than pay a pro whole bunch, I'll probably just wait until we replace the whole tub/shower unit within the next 2-4 years.

Also, the cartridge retainer nut is the ribbed ring between the brass collar and the cartridge itself, correct? I want to make sure I focus my effort on the right part!

jimbo
02-18-2009, 05:53 AM
Thanks for the tip. I certainly considered replacing the whole valve, but I think that's a little over my head at this point. And rather than pay a pro whole bunch, I'll probably just wait until we replace the whole tub/shower unit within the next 2-4 years.

Also, the cartridge retainer nut is the ribbed ring between the brass collar and the cartridge itself, correct? I want to make sure I focus my effort on the right part!

Yes;..........

hj
02-18-2009, 06:32 AM
IF you caused damage, you would know it immediately. With that valve, the "twist" will not be noticable, with other handles it would be because the knob would be crooked. Just DO NOT twist it any further or try to twist it back. Heating the nut will loosen it once you reach the correct temperature. Just heat it a little, then try to turn the nut, keep repeating a little bit at a time. When it is the correct temperature, and the corrosion is softened, the nut will unscrew easily.

pjsammy
02-18-2009, 07:25 AM
Thank you both. This is a wonderful (and wonderfully helpful) forum and I really appreciate the assistance.

master plumber mark
02-18-2009, 08:04 AM
That is not the 1300 faucet,

that is the predecessor to the 1300.....

I have dozens of that exact faucet in my office...

in antique brass and all....

it is a 1608 series




you want to be careful with it...

it is best to soak that nut in WD40 first....for a long time

before trying to unscrew it... be careful not to twist it

or force it or you will ruin the faucet.....

if it does not move , youwill ahve to take a hack saw and saw through that bonnett nut to get the cartridge out...


parts are eeasily available

pjsammy
02-18-2009, 08:24 AM
the bonnett nut is the same as the cartridge retainer nut, right?

any thoughts on vinegar vs WD40? I've used some PB Blaster (?) on car parts before with good results. Is that safe in this situation? Or should I stick w/ vinegar or WD40?

jadnashua
02-18-2009, 09:22 AM
Vinegar will disolove the mineral deposits, it's just that it is weak, and will take several applications. WD40 can penetrate, but won't disolve what you have. PBlaster is better at penetrating AND lubricating, and might be a good choice after you've disolved things.

pjsammy
02-18-2009, 10:24 AM
thanks. I may try a combination of a few of these. i'll do some searching to make sure the PB blaster is safe in a fiberglass tub.

I give my son his bath in there every night so I might just stick with multiple vinegar applications. to avoid excessive chemicals and what not.