Well Problems - no H2O hum in conduit

[FRR]

I have a well about 300 feet deep with a 3HP pump. Its about 19 years old and has been pumping fine for all these years. Tonight I do not have any water pressure. I checked the pressure switch and it looks OK. It's closed and there is 240V on the pump side. One thing I noticed is if I turn the breaker off then on, I hear a faint hum in the conduit. If I leave the breaker on, the hum lasts for a few seconds then stops. It will repeat in a cycle a minute or so later. Could the pump be jammed after all these years? Frozen? I live in the Chicago area and it's cold but it has been much colder last week and in other years. What could it be? Should I leave the power off? What can I do to diagnose the problem?

[valveman]

It sounds like the automatic overload in the motor is tripping. These reset themselves in a few minutes and try again. However, a 3 HP motor should not have automatic overloads. There should be some red buttons on the bottom of the control box on the wall. You should have to push these red buttons to reset the overload. I would never pull the pump until I knew the control box was working 100%. It could be the start capacitor or the start relay but, resetting itself in a minute does not make sense to me. Maybe you have a smaller pump running on a 3 HP box.

[FRR]

I'm starting to think I have bad information about the size of the pump. There is no control box on my system. The pump is wired directly to the Square D mechanical pressure switch. I think you are right about the automatic overload switch.

I'm short of money due to the economy and I want to do this in the MOST cost effective way possible.

Can anything be done short of pulling the pump?
Can I pull the pump myself?
Can I buy the pump on the net and have someone install it?
About what does it cost to have this done?

Thanks for your help. Frank

[valveman]

If there is no control box and the wires go directly from the pressure switch to the pump, then it must be 1.5 HP or smaller. You have already checked the voltage out of the pressure switch. Unless the pipe is frozen, your motor is probably locked up. You will need to pull the pump to know what size it is. Then you can find another pump.

[FRR]

How do I size the pump?

I have a 4 bedroom 3 bath house. 1.25 acre lot with an irrigation system. I believe the peek GPM on the largest zone is about 15- 20 GPM. I think the well is 300 - 350 feet deep.

I'll go with the 1.5Hp pump but there are many choices, GPM, Stages etc.

What are the pros and cons of more stages?
Why would I not want the highest GPM?
What brand pumps are the best? Reliability, warren tee, etc.
Stainless Steel, Plastic. All Stainless Steel?
Are the new variable speed pumps a good choice or should I use a Constant Pressure Valve instead?



Thanks for your help, Frank

[valveman]

You need to put back the same size pump. If you install a larger pump, you may pump the well dry. It is hard to size a pump correctly without all the information on the well. The exact depth of the well and the production of the well are needed to know what horse power and how many stages you need.

Not much difference in any of the brand name pumps. Hydroflo, National, Goulds, Sta-Rite, Grundfos, AY McDonald, Flint and Walling, are brand names just to name a few.

There is nothing new about variable speed pumps. VFD's have been around for decades. They have made changes every year, and still have not got them working dependably. But if you want a pump system that cost a lot and doesn't last very long, a variable speed or "constant pressure pump" is what you need.

A Cycle Stop Valve is the only reliable way to get constant pressure. You can use a CSV with a much smaller pressure tank, and it will deliver constant pressure from any of the standard, more dependable pumps. CSV's have been replacing variable speed pumps for more than 16 years.

It wouldn't hurt to at least get a price from a pump company. You many find that it is not as bad as you thought. At least you will know what horse power and how many stages they think you will need. If they can't tell from your set up, they will know about the size of other systems in your area. Saving a thousand bucks is a good thing if everything works out. If you do it yourself and have problems or drop something in the well, that would have been the best thousand bucks you ever spent. Pulling and setting deep pumps is hard work. That is one reason they charge so much. Find a pump company that knows CSV's make pumps last longer, and variable speed pumps are a waste of money, and you have found someone with experience in the pump industry.

Doesn't mean you can't do it yourself, it would just be better if you had seen this done at least once before.

[FRR]

valveman, thanks for your advice!

I'm attempting to get the records from the state on the well and pump details. It was put in when the house was built and not changed since. I do know that it is in a large fast moving aquifer. I had attempted to chlorine shock it but after 4 gallons of bleach and no sign of chlorine using a detection kit, I stopped. I contacted the county and the said if 4 gallons did not work then the well is in a large fast moving aquifer

I left the breaker off on the pump since last night. When I returned home this evening I flipped it on and the same thing happened - faint hum in the conduit for several seconds then off for a longer period and the cycle repeated. NO pumping, NO Water. Resigned that the pump was shot, I thought there's no harm in leaving the breaker on. Well (No pun intended), a few hours latter I had water. Jumped in the shower, flushed the toilets, did the dishes, etc. It seems to be working normally now for the last couple of hours.

Now what? What should I do? Was the pump jammed and it cleared itself? Is this just temporary? Should I be replacing the pump anyway?

Thanks for your help? Frank

[valveman]

Maybe it was frozen some where. Pumps don't usually fix themselves. There is nothing that can be repaired on them either so, just keep using it until it quits. I would still be prepared to replace the pump. It could happen again at anytime.

[cacher_chick]

There is also a slight chance that you could have a wiring problem between the pressure switch and the well head or the well head and the pump. A poor connections can intermittently rear it's ugly head, particularly when things are freezing and thawing. Pretty hard to test for now that things are working.


If you could find out exactly what pump you have, then you could test the amperage draw and compare it to the factory specs. Given the age of the pump, I would not expect any good news. It's not uncommon for them to last half that long.

[valveman]

Good ideas CC. And since it is running again, if you can find out how many amps it is pulling, that will at least tell us what horse power pump it is. Won't tell us the number of stages but, horse power will help.

[hj]

An oversized pump will not necessarily pump a well dry, and if it does, it has little to do with the size of the pump. The only way to pump a well dry is to use more water than it is recovering, and ANY pump can do that, even an "undersized" one.