Water pipes noisy/chugging. Toilet guilty?

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:confused:Occasionally my water pipes will make a rhythmic chugging or knocking sound. This happens when there is no water running, and will last maybe 10 seconds or longer. When I hear it I can sometimes stop it by going to the nearest faucet and turning it on, but that doesn't always work. One thing that does always work to stop the noise is to turn off the water supply in my master BR toilet. This toilet is about 1 1/2 year old (Toto Drake). When the chugging noise starts, in the tank of that toilet, there is a few drops of water (with each "chug") going into the overflow tube from the hose that goes in there. This bathroom is basically at the end of the line for my water supply pipes. Other info that may factor in: My home was built in the 1960's and has copper pipes.

Can someone help me, please??
 
If the flapper is leaking, the tank level drops and the fill valve will start refilling the tank.

If that is the case, the water level will be lower than the overflow tube, and you will see water entering the bowl. A little food dye may help here.

If the water is overfilling the overflow tube, then the fill valve is not shutting off.

Instructions here
 
i am not too familiar with toto fill valves (worked on a few older ones) but i have seen where the rubber tubing has been extended too far into the overflow tube and water has siphoned from tank through fill valve down overflow tube, so fill valve may shut off but siphonage flows down overflow tube causing tank to run low and refill, usually seen with diy or handyman installed 400a fluidmaster valves, and even some new out of box kohler toilets with 400a, i now always double check tank settings on all new toilet install/replacement to prevent call backs due to factory oversights
edit:forgot to add that tube should be secured above rim of overflow tube or at least above water level in tank to avoid siphonage
 
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Terry,

I put some dye in the tank. I came back 15 min. later and found it had seeped into the tank. After flushing, the water stops filling about a 1/2" below the top of the overflow tube, so I guess the fill valve is not the problem. So all i need is a new flapper, correct?

If so, that would be a huge relief, as that loud chugging noise caused me to have visions of a plumbing money pit.

What caused the loud chugging noise?:confused:
 
Thanks for your help Terry.

Backing up to your first reply - I did put dye in the tank, and it leaked to the bowl. So, the flapper must be leaking. So, should I just replace the flapper first and see if that solves my problem, and then replace the fill valve only if I'm still getting the chugging noise in the pipes?
 
1. open the shutoff valve as far as it will go.
2. replace the flapper
3. while you are buying the flapper, also buy a replacement cap. If 1 & 2 don't fix it, replace the cap.
 
That worked!

The last suggestion worked. All it needed was a new flapper on the one toilet, and all of the chugging noises throughout the whole house's pipes has stopped.

Many thanks to Terry and everyone else for helping me. I had visions of thousands of $$$ that it would take to fix that, and it cost $8.:)
 
Thank you, Terry! I just recently started hearing the chugging in my toilet tank, and after fully opening the water valve, I think I've solved the problem! I may not need to buy any replacement parts, after all...fingers crossed. :)
 
Seven years later I can say that Terry's original solution has worked a few times, i.e. every 2 or 3 years that chugging noise would start again I'd replace that flapper and it was fixed. Recently it started again though and changing the flapper didn't work. The new flapper is a bit different though since my local Portland plumbing supply store tells me that Toto only offers universal flapper rather than different ones for different models.

So as I said, the chugging has started again and I here it when our timed sprinklers shut off. We don't have a sprinkler system per se, but I do have a timer on a hose bib with some three hoses timed to turn on at varying times.

Another possible factor: We recently remodeled another bathroom but didn't replace the toilet since it was already a newer Toto model, but the contractors did remove the toilet and reinstall it during the process. Maybe I need to replace this flapper too?

Any suggestions?
 
WS said:
Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Check your water pressure during the problem times.

You can get a pressure gauge with a garden hose thread for under $20 locally. This can screw onto a laundry faucet, an outdoor faucet, or the drain of the water heater. Pressure is supposed to stay under 80 PSI.
 
...and I'm going to put food dye in all 3 of my toilet tanks to see if the new universal Toto flapper or the other two need replacing.
 
WS said:
...and I'm going to put food dye in all 3 of my toilet tanks to see if the new universal Toto flapper or the other two need replacing.
Click to expand...
Then dye in the bowl could indicate water going around the flapper. But it could also indicate water that went over the top of the overflow tube.

If you turn off the water supply, and if the flapper is leaking, the level of water in the tank drops.

Do you have some slack in your chain? Does the chain pull the flapper at an angle as the flapper closes?
 
I've put food dye in all three toilet tanks and none leaked to the bowl.

Right now I'm leaving soon for a week to drive my daughter to college in California and then I'll resume trying to fix this when I return. I'll be back on here then.
 
Me again, a year plus later. As you can see in the above thread this forum helped me solve my problem intially, and the same solution worked every couple of years, i.e. every time the chugging in the pipes would start I'd replace the flapper and I was good to go. Well, it's happened again and installing a new flapper has made the problem worse. The toilet is a Toto Drake (ST743S). The new flapper is a Toto Universal Flapper (THU499S). The old flapper was also a Toto Universal Flapper (unsure of model, but looks the same as the new one). I followed the directions on the back to install it for this particular toilet, and the chugging seems more frequent than prior to installing the new flapper. After I installed the new flapper I did put some dye in the tank and it went down into the bowl very quickly, and when I turn off the water supply the tank will empty in about 15 minutes or so. I don't have a water pressure gauge, but can get one if anyone thinks it's worth checking. I'm no plumber, but it seems that the flapper isn't sitting snug on the bottom of the tank, is this right? I do have slack in the chain, and chain doesn't seem to pull the flapper at an angle when it closes; the chain bar is in the same position it's always been in. Can anyone help?
 
Water pressure cannot cause your symptom.

WS said:
I'm no plumber, but it seems that the flapper isn't sitting snug on the bottom of the tank, is this right
Click to expand...
The pressure of the water should push the flapper down. Look for the flapper somehow coming down cocked to the side for some reason.

Feel the valve seat. Any roughness? Try wiping that seat clean with a cloth.

If that does not do it, try a Fluidmaster flapper.

If a new flapper does not do it, there may be a seat repair kit, and certainly you could replace the whole flush valve. That is more work.
 
Thanks! The flapper appears to be straight, and doesn't look crooked sitting on the seat. I'll pick up a Fluidmaster flapper later this afternoon (looks like I need a 5403), and report back here later today or tomorrow.
 
Reach4 said:
If that does not do it, consider https://www.fluidmaster.com/products/toilet/flush-valves/540akr-3-flush-valve-with-bolts/ or https://www.korky.com/products/flus...ts/large-3-4-flush-valve-tank-bowl-gasket-kit

More work.
Click to expand...
I replaced the flapper with the Fluidmaster flapper and it worked for a couple of months, but now the chugging has started again. More detail on the chugging after this toilet is flushed and the tank is done refilling the chugging starts, but if the sink or shower faucet is turned on again the chugging stops. So, I guess the next step is to get a new valve, but I have a question: It was recommended to me above to get a Fluidmaster valve, but shouldn't I get a Toto valve since it is a Toto toilet? I still have a new Toto universal flapper.
 
I replied to Reach4 's last comment, but have not had a reply, so I'll post that comment again here, followed by some additional information on a new tower type Toto flush valve that doesn't have a traditional flapper:

"I replaced the flapper with the Fluidmaster flapper and it worked for a couple of months, but now the chugging has started again. More detail on the chugging after this toilet is flushed and the tank is done refilling the chugging starts, but if the sink or shower faucet is turned on again the chugging stops. So, I guess the next step is to get a new valve, but I have a question: It was recommended to me above to get a Fluidmaster valve, but shouldn't I get a Toto valve since it is a Toto toilet? I still have a new Toto universal flapper."

I went to my local plumbing supply store to order a Toto flush valve (but I'd still be willing to use the Fluidmaster suggested by Reach4 if that would be better), and they called the local distributor and found out there is a new tower type flush valve that doesn't have a traditional flapper, and it is compatible with my model of Toto Drake Toilet (ST743S). Here's a photo of it from the online catalog, and I was wondering if anyone had any opinion on this type of flush valve. Apparently, Toto is switching over to this type of flush valve and is eliminating the traditional style.
2017-12-08%2014.47.17.jpg


toto-flush-tower.jpg
 
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