Standard Modernus

Nick2000 · Jan 1, 2009

Hi all. This is my first post here. The reason I joined this board is it's one of the few places with info on what I'm trying to fix. This is an interesting place. I had no idea what I've been sitting on for the past 12 years was such a valuable and well liked piece among toilet aficionados. I think it's great! I also had no idea that this bowl was from the 1930's. My house was built in the early 1940's, so it must have been surplus or something. It is a great toilet with a really powerful flush and I agree with others here, beautiful too. I spent a while last night searching for info on how to replace the gasket on the end of the pipe that's attached to the bowl. By now you can see I'm not a plumber, but I feel like I could do if if I could get the part and knew what I was up against. The search didn't give me a positive answer so I started this thread. A diagram would be wonderful, but does one exist? The attached picture shows the black gasket that leaks when I flush. I'm not surprised. It looks like the original gasket. I am able to spin the sort of bell shaped thing thats against the gasket with my hand slightly. Is this right? Or should have the nut above it been tightened up against it? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. Nick

Redwood · Jan 1, 2009

Please don't confuse me with someone that thinks your toilet is cool, neat, a work of art, or, anything similar.

The part you are seeking to replace is called a spud and the elbow between it and the tank should be replaced as well. It is called a flush el.

Talk to the old guy at the supply house counter and maybe he can set you up.

They are a bear to work on...

There is no one gladder than I that toilets are not made like this anymore.
I consider a day I meet one of these on a service call to be one i would have been better of staying in bed.

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

Gary Swart · Jan 1, 2009

Keeping in mind that it is always easy to spend other people's money, I am still going to be very blunt. Get rid of this monstrosity and get a 21st century toilet. A Toto Drake would do you quite well for the rest of your life.

Redwood · Jan 1, 2009

Well stated Gary!

Gary Swart · Jan 2, 2009

Yeah, but I probably pissed him off and we'll never hear from him again.

Nick2000 · Jan 2, 2009

Gary Swart said:
Yeah, but I probably pissed him off and we'll never hear from him again.

No, I'm not pissed. Maybe a little discouraged, but not pissed. I appreciate the honesty and all the advice and help I can get. Going to work now. Be back tonight.

Cass · Jan 2, 2009

That toilet while a pain to work on was built to work and look good...a time in history when thing like it were built to last...like it has...and for someone doing a reno trying to install period fixtures...something to be desired

hj · Jan 2, 2009

toilet

For someone who has worked on that type of toilet many times, repairing it would not be something he looked forward to, but would do it. As a neophyte, you could have a problem removing the old 2" closet spud without breaking the bowl. Then reattaching the new one and getting the bent flush ell to fit between the bowl and the tank at the same time can be daunting. Fortunately for you, it should not be a lug type spud or you would have to throw the toilet away.

Nick2000 · Jan 2, 2009

I know if I tightened it now it would probably make it worse, but is the nut supposed to be tight against the part next to the gasket?

Achutch · Jan 2, 2009

Cass said:
That toilet while a pain to work on was built to work and look good...a time in history when thing like it were built to last...like it has...and for someone doing a reno trying to install period fixtures...something to be desired

Bravo, Cass!

As some here know, I favor both extremes, the state of the art TOTO, and the glorious antiques, the "Standard" MODERNUS my favorite. I own 4 of them and am proud of it.

Nick, I agree with you. Your "Standard" MODERNUS is a classic, and if you like it, you should try to repair it. Instead of a diagram, I do have a spare spud that I can take pictures of and post, probably the first of the week, or at the latest, next weekend.

That bell shaped thing that you mention is only a decorative cover, like what covers the area around a lavatory drain pipe where it goes into the wall. It hides the spud nut underneath and is not part of the seal.

achutch

Dunbar Plumbing · Jan 2, 2009

achutch said:
Bravo, Cass!

As some here know, I favor both extremes, the state of the art TOTO, and the glorious antiques, the "Standard" MODERNUS my favorite. I own 4 of them and am proud of it.

Proud of wasting gallons of water just to match aesthetics of a home?

Old homes are depressing. I've worked on toilets like this and the idiot homeowners think there's something wrong with the plumber when those el's leak. You almost "have" to loosen the bolts that hang the tank to the wall to get some wiggle space. The connection to the old douglas leader bowls are hard to keep from leaking.

The old homes are notorious for throwing fixtures in any corner that used to be a closet. I gotta stop cause I'm getting pissed off thinking about jobs I "used" to do.

Nick2000 · Jan 2, 2009

achutch said:
Bravo, Cass!

As some here know, I favor both extremes, the state of the art TOTO, and the glorious antiques, the "Standard" MODERNUS my favorite. I own 4 of them and am proud of it.

Nick, I agree with you. Your "Standard" MODERNUS is a classic, and if you like it, you should try to repair it. Instead of a diagram, I do have a spare spud that I can take pictures of and post, probably the first of the week, or at the latest, next weekend.

That bell shaped thing that you mention is only a decorative cover, like what covers the area around a lavatory drain pipe where it goes into the wall. It hides the spud nut underneath and is not part of the seal.

achutch

Thanks for the info achutch. I do like it and would love to keep it. Yes, a picture would be great when you can get to it. Thanks. I see the diagram here http://www.deabath.com/Hightank/Toiletparts/Toilet_Repair/low_tank_repairs/low_tank_repairs.htm showing how to remove a spud, but if the end is tapered out how does it fit out of the hole and a new spud fit in? I'm not seeing something right here I guess. I'm going to go to a local supply place and

Redwood said:
Talk to the old guy at the supply house counter...

. I hope I don't have to loosen the bolts, RUGGED, because there are none! This thing is nailed to the wall with those old nails. I think they're called cut nails. Can of worms.

Achutch · Jan 2, 2009

3 in storage, 1 seasonal

Actually Rugged, both toilets in my home are 1.6 gallons. The one MODERNUS currently in use is in my summer cabin, open less than 6 months of the year, where water is free, gravity fed, and not in any danger of drying up. I also have a decent septic system. The other three are "spares", just in case something happens to the one in place (just like I have backups of my photos and files in case my hard drive crashes).

The toilet in the little icon has not been in that spot for almost a year, and actually had very light use. It was changed in part because my water and sewer rates had gone up (due to lower sales of water -- one is punished for saving water and for putting less burden on the sewage treatment plant), and because I got used to the comfort height elongated toilet (TOTO Drake) in the bathroom upstairs.

Like it or not, there are many people who enjoy unusual antiques, whether they are plumbing fixtures, appliances, or whatever. You are right. They are not as efficient as the stuff made today, nor are they the easiest to work on or repair. But for many of us, they still have their rightful place.

achutch

Achutch · Jan 2, 2009

Nick2000 said:
Thanks for the info achutch. I do like it and would love to keep it. Yes, a picture would be great when you can get to it. Thanks. I see the diagram here http://www.deabath.com/Hightank/Toiletparts/Toilet_Repair/low_tank_repairs/low_tank_repairs.htm showing how to remove a spud, but if the end is tapered out how does it fit out of the hole and a new spud fit in? I'm not seeing something right here I guess. I'm going to go to a local supply place and . I hope I don't have to loosen the bolts, RUGGED, because there are none! This thing is nailed to the wall with those old nails. I think they're called cut nails. Can of worms.

I'll get you a closeup of the rubber gasket, as it's hard to see in those pictures. It expands as you tighten up the spud and the seals and holds the spud into the back of the bowl.

achutch

Nick2000 · Jan 2, 2009

Good. Pictures are good. The more detail, the better. Thanks achutch.

Cass · Jan 3, 2009

RUGGED said:
Proud of wasting gallons of water just to match aesthetics of a home?

Old homes are depressing. I've worked on toilets like this and the idiot homeowners think there's something wrong with the plumber when those el's leak. You almost "have" to loosen the bolts that hang the tank to the wall to get some wiggle space. The connection to the old douglas leader bowls are hard to keep from leaking.

The old homes are notorious for throwing fixtures in any corner that used to be a closet. I gotta stop cause I'm getting pissed off thinking about jobs I "used" to do.

RUGGED...just think of it like the Modle T Fords or some of the 60s and 70s Muscle cars that got 6-7 MPG.

a 5 gal. flush now and then isn't going to affect any one...

hj · Jan 3, 2009

spud

The spud gasket slides down the beveled section of the brass spud, thus getting larger as it is tightened. Eventually it reaches the size where it is pressing against the bowl so it seals. When you remove it, you have to loosen the nut, then "push" the brass piece inward so the rubber seal can collapse enough to pull out of the bowl. If you try to pull it out too soon, it will still be retained by the spud's taper, and thus will exert pressure on the bowl, probably cracking it.

Nick2000 · Jan 3, 2009

Makes sense now hj. Thanks.

hj · Jan 5, 2009

spud

IT is a lot easier to do it, than to tell how to do it.

Nick2000 · Jan 5, 2009

hj said:
IT is a lot easier to do it, than to tell how to do it.

I hope so. There is a place I know of that I have to get to to get the spud. Hopefully I'll be in that area soon. I guess I should get a new flush ell too since this one is probably as old as the toilet.

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