Bid Change copper to PEX -- cost impact?

We're building a house and have a guaranteed max price contract with the builder. The plumbing specs specified copper piping. The GC bid out the plumbing package and picked the plumbing sub-contractor.

Plumbing contractor contacted our architect and said, "Hey, ever consider PEX?" As the homeowner, I am not opposed to PEX and the home run manifold concept seems interesting.

Money's the issue. Given that the plumbing contractor fix-bid all copper, I assume he is getting a labor cost windfall if I agree to switch to PEX. Don't mind paying a fair price, but don't want to pay copper installation costs to install PEX.

Can you master plumbers out there give me a rule of thumb to compare an all copper system to a PEX system?

Like -- Material cost roughly the same but labor cost difference of X% ???? Thanks,

no major windfall

it isnt really that big a deal....

I doubt that their is a 250 dollar difference between the two


its mostly a labor cost saveings , because any moron can run pex

and it takes a litttle more time and finess for the copper.

and if you want to haggle about $ 250 , more power to you

but its probably best to just throw the builder a bone here

just be sure to let him know you are throwing him a bone.....

just in case you need to ask him a favor back in return

somewhere in the building process .

Remember that 95 % of all builders are skum., and its not good to give them
any breaks without makeing sure they know about it.. in writing
and probably notarized.

personally I prefer the copper type L

Pex

If the difference between PEX and copper were only $250.00, plumbing contractors would not be using it every chance they get. Between the difference in material and the lesser labor costs, the difference is more likely in the $1,000.00-$1,500.00 range, but it also depends on the size and complexity of the house's plumbing.

price difference

why dont you just ask the builder what the price
difference is and ask them for a refund??

see how much he is willing to give you back of credit
you for.

I would be interested in seeing what they claim the
cost difference is myself, like I mentioned to me its
mostly a labor saveings..which is a very grey area..

though I doubt its any major windfall considering most
average plumbing installations run somewhere between 5k
and 10 k for an average home for the total package.

it really depends on how large your house is...

Go ahead and use Pex so we can hear the horror stories years from now when mice chew on it or you can't find crimp rings for your piping because the manufacture went out of business and there is another company that makes crimp rings for it but the tool to crimp it is $150 and you have to buy it because you can't rent it and you have to ask your neighbor joe if he knows anyone that has one and you find one but you find out that everyone including your brother used it and now the tool is out of calibration and you know this because when you crimp your piping two months later the crimp blows and does like $5000 damage to your house and your cat snuffles gets an irreversible cold and your vet bills are through the roof so you finally get a plumber that has a new tool and it costs you an arm and a leg because he has the right stuff and you don't and you are at his mercy since it isn't exactly normal piping inside your walls like copper piping is which you tried to save a buck in the beginning but now you realize that trying to skimp on the mechanicals initially is costing you tenfold for a mistake that cannot be reversed since you have this so called piping strung through your walls like spaghetti and it takes probably 500 more feet of piping to make home runs to each individual fixture supply and that means for more thermal loss on the hot side which will keep your water heater running at full throttle at your cost so my advice is to make a choice you are going to live with and understand that when you skimp on materials you are the one that lives with the decision to have something in your walls that you possibly won't have the ways or means to deal with at a later date because it was new fast and cheaper than copper piping.

had some problems , huh?

I have never heard of any real horror
stories like you speak of yet.

Though , I honestly think that the Maniblock
systems that are out there
will someday start corroding up at the indivudual shut off
valves to each fixture due to either the "o" rings
leaking or possibly the different chemicals in
the water finally breaking down the plastic....

35 years from now having to change out a manibloc
on a wall aint going to be fun tieing all that back in.

I will be dead by then , so what do I care, right??
----------------------------------------------------------

Are you sure you arent confuseing your junkey pipe systems here??

Are you talking about the grey poly --quest stuff that used rings
and and crimping tool.. it was all grey??? The stuff that was
outlawed 20 year ago??


just wondering....

sorry about your cat.

I've seen that site and story before; a very bad situation all around. But you're using it to blame PEX (the tubing) when the problem is installer error, and nothing more.

Just look at the workmanship and the bad crimps on too short runs out of the slab. That is not a fault of the tubing.

And to the mice chewing holes.... there are hundreds of millions of dollars being paid this year due to pinholes in copper tubing caused by either water quality or electrical causes. That's a lot more than a few holes chewed by rodents in all plastic tubing have ever caused. Which simply proves that no matter what tubing is used, there is none that will be problem free forever; or longer than 2-3 years. Yes, I've seen new homes with L copper with pinholes in as little as 2-3 years and substantial water damage. So far I've not seen or heard of any problems (here) with PEX and it's being used more every day and has been for a number of years.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

thats why I like copper

I am very sorry about your nightmare

and thank you for sharing


I have never seen such a mess with pex
like the one you are having
and it tells me of horrible things to come......

honestly , this web page should be posted as an thread for all the
big plumbing experts here to look at and discuss.....

pex joints should not be under the slab floor, or any joint for
that matter.


it certanly appears to be pex , and unless they used some
sort of defective fittings, which I cant say for sure
wither way, because I think the stuff is junk anyway,
I totally agree with you...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
you should post a VERY LARGE sign in your front yard for
all the world to see , and put the web address there too.....


whats he gonna do, contest what you are saying??


good luck with all your troubles with pex.......


If you dont mind , I am going to post
youir web site for everyone here to hash over
just to see what they think of the whole mess....

this as a new information thread here
and you will get lots
of responses........ thank you for the information

PEX has been used worldwide for over thirty years with a good track record.

I love the stuff and put it in my home and for people I call friends.

pex

Terry, whould you start a new thread with that pex link and
see what people say.....

I cant figure out how to start up a new thread ...


If you have gone to that site, I wonder what went wrong with the
stuff anyway???

I suppose it was poor workmanship judgeing from what the home owner
has stated...

but it makes me leerey





very high water pressure??

thank you http://www.skinrxclinic.com/original_plumbing_that_burst.htm

Thanks for the feedback / input

After reading the posts and talking to the plumbers we know, we decided to stay with copper. Just wasn't enough compelling reasons (fiscal or performance-wise) to switch at this stage in the build process.

We might have considered it had we known about PEX manifold potable water supply systems last year when we were designing the house. I don't have any issues with using PEX as that's what is providing the radiant heat in the house. Luckily the PEX heating tubing is buried in the slab where the rats can't get to it!

Appreciate the input