Need your help installing a shutoff valve!

I'm trying to solder a shutoff valve on a very old toilet. I have installed three shutoff valves in this house, but I am stuck with this one. It looks like I have a corroded copper coupling. Where would I cut this copper pipe? The pipe is on a very tight corner that is very hard to reach, so I am planning to use a valve with a compression nut. I am trying to avoid much water down time as possible. Four hours without the water supply becomes a nightmare in this household. I took two photos of the pipe with a camera phone. The quality isn't great, but you can see where I am having an issue. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

You can cut it behind the coupling and use a compression shutoff.
You have plenty of room for that.
It should take you very little time once the water is off and drained down.

Don't forget to replace the rusted escutcheon at the wall.

You won't find an answer to this question in a book. Ideally, the soldering would be done inside the wall, but that would require cutting a hole in the wall and patching it later. If the wall was just dry wall, that would be my choice as drywall patching is simple. However, with the tile that would make the job a bit more complex. Therefore, I believe the simplest thing to do is to cut all of this mess out from the wall side of the coupler, leaving you enough pipe stub to solder a male adapter on for the stop valve. I'd make a heat shield to slip over the pipe stub to avoid messing up the tile. You end up with an unsightly exposed joint, but the alternative would be to remove some tile, open the wall and make the solder joints inside then patch to wall.

If you have the room, yeah a mini cutter is the way to go. You don't want to come up short on the stubout though! It might be best to cut the pipe right before the 90 and the coupler. Then you can sweat the coupler off, wipe the pipe clean, using the torch and a rag or emery cloth if need be. This way you have more pipe to work with.

I would not use a pipe cutter (even a mini-one) to cut before the coupling since this might cut too short near the wall. I would carefully use a hack saw to cut as close to the coupling as possible.

I would then solder a quality brass nipple onto the copper stub (using a flame retardant sheet to protect from fire) and screw onto this a 1/4 turn angle stop, using teflon tape and pipe dope.

No compression or solder-on stops for me, thank you. But if you do not have room, then I understand the constraint.

Replace the escutcheon as Terry said. And if you do not want it to go rusty like the old one then I would suggest a solid brass one as long as it goes with your overall look.

If you are a homeowner, I would not be doing any soldering here.

hj, plumbing 55 years plus and me, plumbing 35 years plus would not solder on a Male Adapter. We would use the compression stop.

Here is the tool we use to remove the sleeve and nut.

I assume a pro would shut off the water, cut the pipe and then remove the toilet before installing the valve?

This would eliminate the tight aspect for everything but the initialcutting.

A pro would cut the pipe behind the coupling, slip off the plate behind, put a new one on, slide a compression angelstop onto the pipe and tighten.

The toilet would stay. Why move it?

The new flexible supply line may need to be a 16"
They come with their own seals, throw a wrench or plies on it and you are done.

stop

A pro would unsolder the coupling, then wipe the excess solder off the tubing and use a compression stop.

hj said:

A pro would unsolder the coupling, then wipe the excess solder off the tubing and use a compression stop.

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I agree that is what a pro would do!

I agree with Terry - there's plenty of length to cut the pipe off (just behind that blob on the coupler), clean it up with some scotch brite and put a compression shutoff. We've have them reliably in use in our house for 25+ years, no issues.

Use a fine hacksaw blade, deburr the pipe, have the wife hold a bucket in front of the pipe while you momentarily (just a second) turn on the water to blow out the debris (make sure she wears goggles so none of the cuttings gets in her eyes, install the compression shutoff and be done with it.

In regards to heating it up and wiping the solder off - no need - cut it back where there is no solder. You don't need much length with the compression stopcocks - just clean and square pipe.

I would remove the toilet first.

Then I would plug the hole that the toilet sets over, it may smell some.

Then I would have a beer and think about that drippy solder.

Then I would get a blow torch and start heating the pipe.

Wait, did I turn off the water yet?

Ok, I'll turn the water off.

That beer is starting to kick in. Darn, now I got the toilet sitting in the yard. Well heck, I can use the yard too. Is that a moose over there looking at me? Never mind moose, just look the other way.

Ok, now I'm using a blow torch, but the water is kind of steaming. Maybe I will cut the pipe and then use the blow torch. Now I'll just take a kleenex and wipe the solder, Damn! that like burns my fingers. Shoulda used a rag I guess. I'll just run some cold water on it.
Hey! Who turned off the water?..........It was me? ........Ok.

Ok, I got the rag, Now I'm wiping the pipe. Seems maybe I should sand it some too. Okay, make it shiny some. What? another beer? Sure.......Why not? How tight do I make this mother? I'm pretty strong, not as strong as the back yard moose, but pretty good. Ungh! Yeah Baby, that's tight.
Shoot, beers kicking in, that moose better be looking the other way.
Okay......done.......grab this toilet and bring it back in. Wax......I should have wax for this. I'll just jump in the snow hopper and run to the store, that will do er. Hey, I'm liking this plumbing. I could do this all day. Do I have enough beer? Better get more while I'm out.

all i see is urine

better aim, are you married?
Thought if you can dish it out guys, just take a little!

?

quote; I would then solder a quality brass nipple onto the copper stub

And HOW would you do that? Brass nipples do not have the same size as a copper stub. And if you cut behind that blob of solder on the bottom you may wind up with a stub that is too short. It will also prevent using a mini cutter on the copper. Terry, it is 55+ years, not 45.

And HOW would you do that? Brass nipples do not have the same size as a copper stub.

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We have agreed that this is too tight to solder.

But assuming it was not, the last time I soldered a brass nipple onto 1/2 inch pipe, the dimensions on the inside of that nipple matched exactly the external dimensions of the copper pipe.

That is how I soldered it, and I love soldering brass. Technology has come a long way in the past 55+ years.

That is how I soldered it, and I love soldering brass. Technology has come a long way in the past 55+ years.

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Ian, Dude, Brother,
They make fittings for that purpose. It's called a "Male Adapter"
Designed to be soldered onto copper pipe. Not something "makeshift".

"Makeshift" I'm getting where you are coming from.

It's all about the alternative methods here. Not the tried and true.

I always go down in flames and this is going to be no different.

But with a bloody nose I am going to get back up and keep fighting.

I always avoid copper male adaptors for this purpose. The threads will not last as long as a good brass nipple.

Yes, it's more expensive which is why it may not be a pro solution. But what the heck. I like quality.

Is using a compression stop preferable, because the copper may twist into a pretzel when you try to tighten the screw-stop down onto a male adapter? Whereas with the compression stop you can use a counter wrench to keep the copper from twisting?

No, this is just a space issue combined with preference. We have ruled out soldering because the space is too tight.

But in my 24+ months of plumbing experience, I have found that it takes less force to install a screw on valve (using teflon tape and pipe dope) than a compression fitting.

You need to support the pipe with both, but you need more oomph with a compression fitting and you need to be more accurate too. Screw-on is more forgiving. But more work and more costs in the short term in set-up costs i.e. solder and screw versus just solder or just screw (compression).

I like soldering. And I love nipples and screwing.

Ian Gills said:

I always avoid copper male adaptors for this purpose. The threads will not last as long as a good brass nipple.

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Brass=soft

copper=soft

Both are malleable metals.

I don't see how your figuring a brass nipple is better than a copper fitting going on a copper pipe, that's made just for this purpose. But feel free to enlighten me.

If I had that to deal with I would unsolder the coupling, clean up the joint and sweat on a male adapter. I'm not big on compression fittings, but there is nothing wrong with that route either.

Just my .02 cents.