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sed6
12-15-2008, 10:02 PM
All-
My first post, but I did a search first ;) I'm installing a Sloan 195-1.0 ES-SM Flushometer seen here (http://www.sloanvalve.com/specsheets/Royal_Optima_195_ES-SM.pdf)on a Kohler Branham urinal in my new residence. Problem is I need to extend the distance from the valve to the rear spud from from about 10" to about 60". Reason being is the flushvalve will be accessed not from the urinal side of the wall but the opposite side of that wall, and there is cabinetry on that side of the wall that I need to get the access panel above.

I called Sloan and they only offer a 24" replacement vacuum breaker, not nearly the 60" I need. While Sloan says the line going down from the vacuum breaker is 3/4", it's not. At least not any 3/4" I've seen before as it's sized differently from the 3/4 copper pipe I have.

So my question is how do I extend a part 60", using a pipe size I can't match and somehow get it to pass final? Thanks for any help you can offer!

-Scott
OKC, OK

nhmaster
12-16-2008, 04:14 AM
Am I reading this correctly? The flush valve is going to be 5 feet from the urinal?

hj
12-16-2008, 04:43 AM
It should be 3/4" o.d. copper sized, not pipe, which is available at air conditioning suppliers. Because of the vacuum breaker the pipe is going to drain after every usage, BUT since the valve should just flush 3/4 gpf, you are going to have a very weird, and slow flush as most of the initial water will go towards filling the pipe, and the final water will drain out of the pipe, and very little will actually be used to power flush it.

jimbo
12-16-2008, 06:28 AM
Wow, I haven't seen a stand up urinal in a long time. I didn't know they were still legal!

I would check with Kohler and with Sloan to see if they think that urinal will flush if you put a 60" extension on the flush tube. I presume some portion of that 60" is horizontal???

I also must presume that you have installed the required 3/4" water supply main right up to the flush location. If not, the Sloan valve would have problems.

sed6
12-16-2008, 08:43 AM
Thanks for the replies.

Yes it's five feet, but straight up, no horizontal run.

I hear you about filling the pipe first before it uses power to flush it, then draining slowly at the end. But a 60" pipe with 3/4" ID has a volume of about 26 cu in. A gallon of water is about 231 cu in. So only about 1/10th of the flush is going to fill the tube. I can only presume this will still give a good flush?

I don't believe I have a 3/4" supply to the urinal. The whole home is plumbed with PEX that I believe is 1/2". Isn't that the standard in residental construction?

Kohler makes a flushometer with a foot pedal flush. The flushometer is at ground level and there is about 6' of pipe coming out the bottom, making two 180 degree bends before it goes into the back of the urinal. So if a flushometer can flush that urinal, why not mine? Here's a link to it...Sloan 323 Flushometer (http://www.sloanvalve.com/specsheets/Royal_323.pdf)

Keep your thoughts coming...

jadnashua
12-16-2008, 10:02 AM
A urinal in a residence isn't exactly common, and, if the vavle requires 3/4", you will not get the flow required to produce a decent flush. Pex is even worse than equivalently sized copper since the outside is controlled, and the wall of the pipe on pex is thicker...it will potentially have less flow (now, depending on the length and the amount of fittings, that could change with how copper could be run).

jimbo
12-16-2008, 11:30 AM
The flush on the urinal is obviously less critical than on a closet., but with the 1/2 pex having the ID closer to 3/8 copper, it is possible that the Sloan valve would fail to turn off. I would run that by Sloan to make sure. We are only talking about 1 gallon total, but if you look at the specs, the Sloan valve needs an instantaneous flow of probably over 20 GPM, and 1/2 pex won't support that.

sed6
12-16-2008, 02:27 PM
I contacted sloan and they had some good info. Basically they said I could locate and position the valve however I chose and the operation wouldn't be effected. They said a 5' run is a non-issue. They did advise I check local codes though.

Turns out I have 3/4 pex to that fixture. Sloan says to look for 25 psi static, 15 psi flowing and 25-30 gpm. Think I can get that out of 3/4 pex with a regular residental water supply?

They said a regulator valve would be the solution to low flowing pressure if it prevents the valve from turning off. Can anyone explain how a regulator valve would help if that proves to be the case?

Again, my thanks for your help and explinations.

jadnashua
12-16-2008, 03:06 PM
If I did my calculations right, I doubt you'll get that flow from that pipe, that's about 3x the max velocity recommended in a pipe even if it could provide that flow. See what the guys that deal with this all the time say.

hj
12-16-2008, 05:46 PM
The flush pipe from a foot valve ALWAYS stays full of water, so the flush not only starts immediately, ALL of the water has the force to flush it.

sed6
12-16-2008, 09:18 PM
I've seen force and flush mentioned several times. The Branham is a washdown urinal. Is any particular amount of force really required? I'm thinking that as long as I have enough psi when flushing to turn the valve off, this application should work?

hj
12-17-2008, 05:02 AM
You need adequate flow to carry the liquid away, otherwise all the water flow will do is dilute the urine in the fixture.