PDA

View Full Version : very hot water as soon as taps turned on



chinto
12-11-2008, 09:03 PM
New member here with some plumbing woes. Tried to search for te answer, but couldn't find my specific problem. I will try to give as much detail as I can, but i am a stranger to plumbing so bare with me if/when i use the incorrect terminology.

My house is appox 20 years old. A while back i needed to replace the tub surround in our upstairs bathroom. In removing the old tub, I needed to replace the faucet in the tub as it was quite rusty. The only part I replaced was the spout, not the taps. (tap is 1 knob that controls both temp and pressure)

http://www.chevroncars.com/learn/img-old/bathtub.gif

(not actual spout I replaced. I'm just showing a pic of what was replaced)


This reno seemed to go without trouble, but about 2-3 months after completion we started to get a hammering sound coming from the pipes leading to the shower when you turn the tap to a certain temp. Any hotter and the noise goes away, any colder and the noise goes away. And yep you guesed it. The temp that the noise occurs at, is the desired temp for showering.

At the sme time that this noise started happening, we started having a concern with the sink in the same bathroom. When the tap is turned on in the sink, scalding hot water comes out for about 10 seconds until cold water starts coming out. This happens regardless of what temp you turn the tap too.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

Redwood
12-11-2008, 09:07 PM
what kind of single handle valve do you have on the tub? Moen? Mixet?

chinto
12-11-2008, 09:16 PM
what kind of single handle valve do you have on the tub? Moen? Mixet?

wish I could tell you. Just checked and it is not labelled.

Redwood
12-11-2008, 09:29 PM
How about a picture?

chinto
12-11-2008, 09:44 PM
How about a picture?

I'll try and get one up tomorrow. It is older though. We've owned the house for 7 years now. It is likely 10+ years old.

Verdeboy
12-11-2008, 10:11 PM
I would suspect that there is something loose in the shower cartridge. That sort of water hammer that you are describing is usually caused by something as simple as a loose washer. I would turn off the water to your shower and pull the cartridge out and check for a loose washer or seal. Try flushing out the line as well, since a large piece of debris could also be vibrating, though less likely than a loose washer.

chinto
12-11-2008, 10:20 PM
I would suspect that there is something loose in the shower cartridge. That sort of water hammer that you are describing is usually caused by something as simple as a loose washer. I would turn off the water to your shower and pull the cartridge out and check for a loose washer or seal. Try flushing out the line as well, since a large piece of debris could also be vibrating, though less likely than a loose washer.

please forgive my ignorance, but what component is the cartridge?

Verdeboy
12-11-2008, 10:28 PM
On a single-handle faucet, the cartridge is located under the handle. Each brand of cartridge requires different tools to remove it, so a brand name or pic is needed to help you further.

Redwood
12-12-2008, 04:39 AM
Zackly! Need the pic to go further.

chinto
12-12-2008, 04:46 AM
Zackly! Need the pic to go further.

Just snapped a few shots, I'll load em up when I get to work.

cheers

chinto
12-12-2008, 06:29 AM
here's the best I could do for now:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f159/Chintoe/81%20turnberry/GEDC1181.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f159/Chintoe/81%20turnberry/GEDC1182.jpg

If this does not help, please let me know.

Also,

My description of the problem was not entirely accurate (guess I was quite tired).

2-3 months after completion we started to get a hammering sound coming from the pipes leading to the shower when you turn the tap to a certain temp. Any hotter and the noise goes away, any colder and the noise goes away. And yep you guessed it. The temp that the noise occurs at, is the desired temp for showering. The only thing I forgot to include was that the hammering noise only occurs, when the water is directed through the spout. It does not occur when it is through the shower head. The problem with the shower is that it is either very hot, or cold water. i cannot seem to find a comfortable showering temp.
cheers

Redwood
12-12-2008, 04:45 PM
Price Pfister!

chinto
12-12-2008, 09:58 PM
Price Pfister!

any idea how to approach my problem?

hj
12-13-2008, 06:59 AM
May be PP, but their stem is usually black, not white. The instant, and very hot, water in the cold side is usually more a symptom of a cracked underfloor hot water line, than a bad faucet.

Verdeboy
12-13-2008, 11:05 AM
I'm guessing you are from the UK, in which case, I'm not familiar with that faucet.

If you have water shut-offs behind the shower wall, and if you have another bathroom to use, you can try pulling out that cartridge. You will need to turn off the water first and then remove the screws that hold on the backer plate.

Then remove the white sleeve. There may also be a retaining nut or a clip that holds the cartridge in place. Once those are removed, you should be able to pull out that cartridge with a pliers and examine it. Check to see if any washers are loose or damaged. There may also be a scald-protector that is sticking or otherwise not working properly. If there is no scald-protector, you may want to have one installed.

chinto
12-14-2008, 05:16 PM
I'm guessing you are from the UK, in which case, I'm not familiar with that faucet..

Nope. I'm in Canada




If you have water shut-offs behind the shower wall, and if you have another bathroom to use, you can try pulling out that cartridge. You will need to turn off the water first and then remove the screws that hold on the backer plate.

Then remove the white sleeve. There may also be a retaining nut or a clip that holds the cartridge in place. Once those are removed, you should be able to pull out that cartridge with a pliers and examine it. Check to see if any washers are loose or damaged. There may also be a scald-protector that is sticking or otherwise not working properly. If there is no scald-protector, you may want to have one installed.

Thanks, I'll take a look at it

chinto
12-14-2008, 05:16 PM
May be PP, but their stem is usually black, not white. The instant, and very hot, water in the cold side is usually more a symptom of a cracked underfloor hot water line, than a bad faucet.

Wouldn't a cracked water line be evident by flooding?

Redwood
12-14-2008, 05:24 PM
Have you got a basement or a slab?

Verdeboy
12-14-2008, 08:57 PM
Wouldn't a cracked water line be evident by flooding?

If the water was trapped under a concrete slab, you may not notice it, but you would notice a high gas bill and a high water bill.

chinto
12-15-2008, 08:39 AM
If the water was trapped under a concrete slab, you may not notice it, but you would notice a high gas bill and a high water bill.


I have a basement. My bills have not changed since the problem began.

Verdeboy
12-15-2008, 10:18 AM
Pull the cartridge out and see what it looks like.

chinto
01-09-2009, 12:38 PM
Pull the cartridge out and see what it looks like.

Had an opportunity to pull it apart last night. Here are some pics, any thoughts on what I should do next? I am still not sure of the make/model, so if anyone can offer opinion on that as well I would appreciate it:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f159/Chintoe/81%20turnberry/GEDC1275.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f159/Chintoe/81%20turnberry/GEDC1276.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f159/Chintoe/81%20turnberry/GEDC1277.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f159/Chintoe/81%20turnberry/GEDC1278.jpg

Redwood
01-09-2009, 07:00 PM
I was wrong on the Price Pfister!:eek:

It is a Kohler valve. K-304 :D

When you turn it on the hot comes on full blast then as you continue to turn it the water getts cooler is that what is going on?

If so that disc with the 2 slots is about 180 degrees out of position from where it should be.

Put it back together with the disc rotated 180 degrees and the cold should come on full first the hot should slowly add and the cold should taper to less and less finally ending at full hot..

This link is very close to your valve and parts breakdowns are shown...
K-304 valve and parts links (http://www.kohlerserviceparts.kohler.com/Product.aspx?ModelID=9409f7334f0945eaafbca2e18b8b7 fa1&AttributeID,41b26f6f483f4b3599893e8245cb9782&PageNum=7&SortBy=0)

chinto
02-10-2009, 04:06 PM
good thing I have 2 showers in the house eh? Taking me forever to get around to trying to figure this out. Although, it would probably be fixed already if i only had the one shower.


I was wrong on the Price Pfister!:eek:

It is a Kohler valve. K-304 :D

When you turn it on the hot comes on full blast then as you continue to turn it the water getts cooler is that what is going on?]

Not quite. What happens, is when you turn it on (even just a little bit) you get a blast of hot water, until the cold water starts flowing.

I think it has to do with the 2 small springs with the boots over them.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f159/Chintoe/81%20turnberry/GEDC1277.jpg

they don't seem to be releasing out far enough. It's like they get stuck. Would this cause the described problem.

Now tha I know it's a kohler, I can find a local dealer for parts. I think maybe I just need a new cartridge or something.

Dano360
02-10-2009, 07:21 PM
Sounds like you might need some ' water hammer arrestors'. You can find them at Home Depot and they arent that bad to install. Are the water lines for your shower easily accessable? You might also want to try adjusting the scald proof ring on your handle. (check with your installation instructions for the taps)