Flowise Dual Flush 2479.216 dual flush toilet, problems and questions

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TIBO

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Hi there,

I recently bought a Flowise #2479.216 and I'm just not sure about if it is ok or not.

Here are my questions:
- Is it normal that at the end of the flush cycle there is no "air sucking action" (in other words: the water doesn't completely go)?

- Is it normal that there is only water in the little lower part of the bowl, where the drain starts (about 3 inches wide by 4 inches long BY 1 1/2 inches deep? I know that it is suppose to retain less water in the bowl but that little, I doubt it!

- When we use the toilet for liquid waste, is it normal that some of it remains (the water after the little flush doesn't become perfectly witty clear)? Because of that un-proven performances , we didn't have the courage to test the solid waste. Is it safe to use it normally with solid waste?

- By the way, according to the poor manual, I think that the water level in the tank is ok, if I compare my tank and the schema.

- What is the popular appreciation of that model?

- Is it possible to return a toilet to the store or American standard directly if we are not satisfied? (Well, before being satisfied or not, I need your advice on this model).

Thanks a lot guys,
- Eric Thibeault

2479_216_pd_01.jpg
 
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Redwood

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I must tell you that I know nothing about this product as I have written off Am.Std. long ago...

Sorry to hear that you bought a piece of junk toilet from Big Box...

There are good toilets out there just not with that brand.
If you could return it I would.
Then research good toilets.
Click on the banner ad in the upper right corner.
 
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TIBO

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Hello Redwood,

Thanks for the reply. You wrote that this is a piece of junk. As a master plumber, can you elaborate a bit more on that for my own knowledge please?

Also you wrote "If you could return it I would". Sorry, but I'm a french speaking person so I'm not sure about what you wrote. Did you wanna say that I could give the return of the toilet a try?

Thanks,
- Eric
 

Peanut9199

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If it is not flushing properly give American Standard a call.

American Standard, 2480 Stanfield Rd., Mississauga, Ontario, L4Y 1S2
Customer Care Center: Toll Free: (800) 387-0369, Mississauga Area: (905) 306-1093
 

Redwood

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American Standard used to be a great company with great products.
But IMHO they have not made a decent toilet since the mandated 1.6 Gallons Per Flush toilets came out.

Today they are manufactured in Mexico, Guatamala, Dominican Republic, Brazil, and lord knows where else.

Their Quality control is non existant and product engineering poor with many of their models sporting numbers behind the name like the infamous Chamion 4...
This basically means that it is the 4th version that hit the market because of faults in the previous models... Still not perfect but getting closer.

I am a plumber and I cannot afford to do each job twice or have callbacks on unseen defects. I have adopted the position of not installing that brand unless it's customer supplied in which case I get paid for the installation regardless of product problems...

I install Toto as my choice when installing a toilet. They work well and I have not had a defect or, callback in 5 years of installing them.

Here you have a brand new product and it's not working properly of it is working poorly. It should not be that way!

If they will give you a refund I would take it and run!
 

Terry

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Being a gravity dual flush, you will have the small water spot in the bowl.
I would consider that normal for a dual flush like that.
The Toto Aquia dual flush and the Caroma dual flush have the small water spot too.
It's also a washdown bowl, so it may be that some of the water does not leave the bowl on the small flush.
Hard to say without seeing it.

Can you post a few pictures here for us to see?

Is it safe to use it normally with solid waste?
I'm sure it is.
 
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TIBO

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Thanks a lot guys for your posts.

All of this is really appreciated.

I will post pictures probably tonight or tomorrow.

Have a nice day to all of you.
- Eric
 

TIBO

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Hello guys,

Here a photo of my toilet to check with you if the water level is normal.

I can also tell you that it took 2 full flush to get rid of the solid waste. I assume that it is not normal and I want to know what can be done about that. We have the toilet since a month.

Thanks,
- Eric
 

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Peanut9199

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Yes that is normal any more water in the bowl and the lower flush would not be able to clear the water.
 

hj

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bowl

Slowly pour water into the toilet to see if the water level rises, and if so how far. Unless it is completely full to its design level before flushing, it will not flush properly.
 

TIBO

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Hello guys,

I poored about 6 liters of water slowly in the bowl but the level didn't rise. Is it normal?
 

TIBO

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Hello Terry,

For my own curiosity, can you give me a brief explanation why on this toilet, the water level is always the same, even if I poor a big amount of water in it?

I'm - as you could see - not a plumber and I this concept doesn't make sense to me. ;)

Thank you
 

Terry

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briggs_1.jpg

The water in the bowl can only be as high as the top bend of the trapway.
That acts as a dam for the water, add more water and it just goes over the dam.
 

Neotonic

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Hi there,

I recently bought a Flowise #2479.216 and I'm just not shure about if it is ok or not.

Here are my questions:
- Is it normal that at the end of the flush cycle there is no "air sucking action" (in other words: the water doesn't completely go)?

- Is it normal that there is only water in the little lower part of the bowl, where the drain starts (about 3 inches wide by 4 inches long BY 1 1/2 inches deep? I know that it is suppose to retain less water in the bowl but that little, I doubt it!

- When we use the toilet for liquid waste, is it normal that some of it remains (the water after the little flush doesn't become perfectly whitty clear)? Because of that un-prooven performances , we didn't have the courage to test the solid waste. Is it safe to use it normally with solid waste?

- By the way, according to the poor manual, I think that the water level in the tank is ok, if I compare my tank and the schema.

- What is the popular appreciation of that model?

- Is it possible to return a toilet to the store or American standard directly if we are not satisfied? (Well, before being satisfied or not, I need your advice on this model).

Thanks a lot guys,
- Eric Thibeault

You my Friend have American Standard's Attempt at Washdown Flush Technology.

Washdown is Different from Siphonic in that Washdown pushes the waste out of the bowl unlike what you are used to where the toilet would pull the waste out.

The Low water level is normal because that is how much water the toilet was designed to hold in the bowl since it is a Washdown Toilet.

You toilet is not broken if it doesn't make the air bubbly sound because the water is being pushed out.
Random caroma PDF said:
North American manufacturers produce toilets that use a siphonic flushing system. Siphonic toilets swirl water around the bowl to
create a vacuum or siphon in the trapway, so water leaves the bowl first, pulling waste out afterward. While this system works very
well when large qualities of water are allowed, it is much more problematic when water is limited to 6 litres. To still be able to create
the Siphonic action, trapways had to be reduced to generally around 2 inches. Naturally, the reduced trap size made clogging common.
Water conscious European manufacturers have been using “Wash down” flushing systems for nearly a hundred years. Unlike North
American toilets, wash down systems do not have to create a siphon in the trapway. A steeper pitched bowl coupled with an open
rim design pushes the water very quickly through the trapway, forcing the waste out first, followed by water. There are several
advantages to wash down. Because they do not have to create a siphon, trapways are able to stay much larger. Caroma toilets
feature 4-inch trapways that are almost impossible to clog. Caroma toilets also allow for superior line carry, as waste is forced
out first, followed by the water.
A Caroma Toilet
caroma.jpg

See similarities
drain_line_carry.jpg

The Caroma is near the bottom of the chart here. Washdown Lg. Diam. Trap
 
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TIBO

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Hi Neotonic,

This is a really nice piece of information.

Thanks
 

Terry

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Any American bowl with a 3" flush valve is going to kick Caroma's butt when it comes to drain line carry.

At least if you go by testing for toilets done by independants.
1.6 gallon, Washdown Large Diameter trap (Caroma), 79% of average carry distance
1.6 gallon, 3" Flapper siphon jet, 108% of average carry distance
1.6 gallon Pressure assist, 132% of average carry distance

I sell 3,000 toilets a year, very few of the Aussi dual flush.
There are plenty of better products out there.

drain_line_carry.jpg
 
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