Badly Rusted/Leaking Main Waste Pipe

[xroad]

My mother's house have a section of 4" waste pipe, cast iron, badly rusted and leaking. If I am to cut the section out and replace the section with PVC pipe & rubber union boots at each end, it would be the ideal fix. Problem is the risk. If I use a chain type pipe cutter. It may not snap at the cut line due to few possible reasons. The pipes are old, easily 80 years old. Old time iron casting quality may not yield evenly casted wall thickness. Rust weakens the pipe walls unevenly. If it does not snap at the cut line, I would have to try another cut further back. This section is right under the toilet upstairs. So, there is no where to cut at a spot further back. I'm at the elbow. Going toward downstream, is another elbow. So, this section is about 2 feet between two elbows.

Reciprocating saw with a diamond blade will work but it takes a long time and messy. I have a 4" grinder but that is also a mess. Even If I want to put up with the noise and the splashing mess, both method will work only if the uneven snap cut leaves me extra pieces TO cut. If the chain cutter bit off a chunk larger than necessary, then I'll have to cut back more. Option is looking bad.

Maybe I'll start with the grinder first and forget the chain type cutter. 4" diamond disc cut around the circumference until cut through. Better control. Long and slow. Less risk of out of control break. Will it be very slow?

Few years back, my mother found some handy man. He strapped a piece of rubber "mat" over the top where the rust is and piled on tons of caulking. I guess it held for a few years.

Rather risking expanding this job to a much bigger out of control project, I am thinking of doing the same patch, but better. I will use a thick neoprene rubber sheet to wrap the pipe and use screw type hose clamps every 2 inch or so to strap on the rubber sheet. It will be the same concept of the pipe repair clamps kit sold in McMaster Carr catalog. They did not have the length I need. I found up to 15 inches in length. I need a longer section, more like 24 inches.

Any good ideas?

http://www.terrylove.com/images/snap_cutter.jpg

[leejosepho]

... a piece of rubber "mat" over the top where the rust is and piled on tons of caulking. I guess it held for a few years.

Rather risking expanding this job to a much bigger out of control project, I am thinking of doing the same patch, but better ...

Clean the pipe well on the outside, then slit a length of 6" firehose and glue it on with a liberal amount of sealer (like Black Jack in a tube), then cover the hose with a length of aluminum flashing or duct and wrap it tightly with duct tape!

[kingsotall]

Duct tape had to find its way into the mix at some point, naturally. ;)

Just sawzall the pig outta there. If it's too messy for ya, get outta the way and let a plumber take care of it.

[nhmaster]

Clean the pipe well on the outside, then slit a length of 6" firehose and glue it on with a liberal amount of sealer (like Black Jack in a tube), then cover the hose with a length of aluminum flashing or duct and wrap it tightly with duct tape!

Where in the code is that an approved repair?

Use your 4" grinder and a diamond wheel. Cut's like butter.

[Redwood]

Clean the pipe well on the outside, then slit a length of 6" firehose and glue it on with a liberal amount of sealer (like Black Jack in a tube), then cover the hose with a length of aluminum flashing or duct and wrap it tightly with duct tape!

Lee, If thats the way you fix your house, be ready to take a substantial hit on the property value when you sell it!:eek:
I hope you aren't out there doing handyman work like this for hire!

[Ladiesman271]

If you are going to DIY, at least do it right the first time.

[xroad]

Up-Till-Now: The current solution, up till now, is a big plastic garbage can to catch the drip.

NOW: I have to stop the leaking, NOW. Then, come up with THE plan on what to do ... sawz-all, grinder, cold chisel, PVC, cast iron, etc.

LATER: Execute the plan.

This line connects to the tenent's apartment. Whatever I decide to do, it has to get zip up really fast. That is why I cannot afford to have this blow up into a huge project. The section of pipe connects to an elbow and then the toilet flange. If I cannot get a clean cut, then it means replacing the elbow and toilet flange and resetting the toilet and disconnect/reconnect a VERY old water hose that supplies to the toilet tank.... another risk there.

[leejosepho]

Duct tape had to find its way into the mix at some point, naturally. ;)

You bet!


Where in the code is that an approved repair?

I would not have the slightest idea.



Lee, If thats the way you fix your house ...

Please stop making presumptuous leaps, Redwood, and one way to do that is by sticking to the subject at hand.


The current solution, up till now, is a big plastic garbage can to catch the drip ...
Whatever I decide to do, it has to get zip up really fast ...

There is absolutely nothing wrong with sticking your finger in the dike, figuratively speaking, until a pro can arrive and make a permanent repair.

[Redwood]

Please stop making presumptuous leaps, Redwood, and one way to do that is by sticking to the subject at hand.

Lee your the one handing out bad advice in every direction today...
Are you having a Hack Attack?
Maybe duct tape isn't the best solution and you shouldn't advise people on how to plumb today...
Anything above dead level is okay for pitch and now duct tape....
Sheesh!


http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2/Redwood39/plumbersprotectthehealthofournation.jpg

[leejosepho]

Lee your the one ...

Once again, Redwood: I am not the subject of the discussion here.

[Redwood]

Your input has led to a discussion of the method of your proposed repair method.

Is this your attempt at wearing a teflon jacket?

If you don't want to catch flack over a hack fix then don't propose them in the first place!:cool:

[nhmaster]

:D :D :D :D :

Hack, Hack hackitty hack.


Angle grinder with a diamond wheel. Cuts fast. Cuts clean. Badda Bing.

[leejosepho]

Your input has led to a discussion of the method of your proposed repair method.

Please know I have no objection to anything I say or suggest being challenged. In fact, I sometimes hope for that in order to learn ... just please keep your comments on-topic.

[Redwood]

NH Master, Please pass the duct tape...
I feel the pressure building...

Oh Oh! Too late!

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2/Redwood39/blowup.gif

[xroad]

OK, I am planning what to do after I take my finger out of the dike.

Replacing the rusted cast iron section with PVC:

Looking at the situation on how much pipe I have ... upstream have a rubber union already so I can start the PVC section there. In case the cut did not turn out well, and I have to do another cut further downstream at the other end. The worst case situation is I run out of pipe on one section and I am all the way downstream where the bad pipe meet at the "T" of the main (horizonal) pipe. How is the PVC to interface to the cast iron "T"? That "T" now have the "bad" pipe leaded into it. If the cut cracking the whole section, I'll have to remove the pieces and left with the open "T", how is the PVC going to fit into the cae iron "T"?

If the cut goes well, the "bad" section is left with a few inches of cast iron, I'll rubber boot the PVC to the cast iron.

[Redwood]

You can take the leaded joint apart and use a donut.

[xroad]

WOW, Thanks for that info.

Donut ..... A rubber doo-hicky queezed between the "T" and PVC pipe? That makes life a lot easier. I don't even have to rent the cutter. Lot less risk.

Taking the leaded joint apart at the "T", is that difficult? Do I just wiggle the joint loose? Any precautions? My biggest fear, which ever way I approach this, is avalanching the project to something I cannot handle. Simple for most of you but living dangerousely or me.

What is the official name for this ... "Donut"?

[Redwood]

Believe it or not its called a donut...

donut (http://www.fernco.com/Donut.asp)


You can drill the lead swiss cheesing it then prying it and the oakum out then take out the pipe and clean up the hub.

There ae a couple of sizes. is the pipe service weight or, extra heavy?

[Redwood]

You could also melt the lead out with a torch.

[xroad]

Believe it or not its called a donut...

donut (http://www.fernco.com/Donut.asp)

There ae a couple of sizes. is the pipe service weight or, extra heavy?

No idea, how can I find out?
Can I measure the outside/inside circumference of the "bell"?
Can I measure the outside circumference of the pipe that inserts into the "bell"?

At the web site of the link you gave me, there is a photo at the top showing two pipe examples. Mine looks like the top one.

[Redwood]

Take a look at the pipe & fittings...
Is there a mark cast in it like "XH"?

[xroad]

Take a look at the pipe & fittings...
Is there a mark cast in it like "XH"?

OK, I'll have to wait till next weekend to go to my mother's house and take a look. Thanks.

[xroad]

Redwood,

There are only two types of donuts, one for service weight and one for extra heavy, correct? There is no in between size right? I'll just go and buy both and return the one I don't use. Make sense?

xroad

[jadnashua]

If you look on the Fernco website, you'll find donuts in various sizes at about 1/16" increments. Every foundry did things approximately the same, but there are differences. I know this from personal experience where neither a 'normal' nor a X-tra large would fit.

[xroad]

If you look on the Fernco website, you'll find donuts in various sizes at about 1/16" increments. Every foundry did things approximately the same, but there are differences. I know this from personal experience where neither a 'normal' nor a X-tra large would fit.

Holy cr@p, and I thought it was going to be an easy slam dunk!

1/16" incremant is a pretty small step. I cannot measure the width (diameter) of the opening at the "T" with that kind of accuracy, not even if I have the pipe removed, which I cannot. Once I remove the pipe, I have limited time to zip up the whole thing. So, I cannot do a trial and error and run to the local plumbing supply, who probably don't have it.

Humm, now the diamond blade on my 4" grinder is looking better, as recommended by nhmaster.

[Redwood]

I'd pick up the 2 common ones and give it a shot...
If you can't get a snug fit then go to plan "B"

[jadnashua]

If you get the right size, you can insert the pipe in it with some effort, but it's not horrible. If you get one that is too tight, you'll be swearing, if you get it in at all. If it's too loose, it will leak. Get the right one and it works great. I was in the same situation...needed to get it done and the local shop only had a couple of sizes, neither one fit...bummer. I ended up cutting it off and replacing with pvc.

There is an accepted method of packing and caulking the joint that would allow you to use PVC (or you could pay a plumber to do a leaded joint with CI). I'd bought a tube of the special caulk and got some of the oiled hemp, but the stuff was (unopened, but) so old, I couldn't use it...was really pissed at the supply house - they should have known (when I looked at the date code, it was like 6-years old). Packing the stuff in, is a pain, but the size doesn't matter if yo ucan find stuff beyond the expiration date. Can't remember the name of the stuff. You have to pack a layer of hemp, caulk, and repeat, three times, filling up the socket.

[Redwood]

That would be oakum...

[xroad]

Use your 4" grinder and a diamond wheel. Cut's like butter.

Well, it has been a few months. Did the repair of the tempory patch few months ago. Reserched the donut thing ... too much unknown on the size. Cannot risk having the system off line for more than few hours. It serves a rental tenant. I rather take a slightly longer road that guarentee to get me there than a shorter road that may escalate to "Oh Crap!" situation.

Decided to go with grinder/cutting wheel and rubber boot route.

I purchased a wet/dry diamond cutting disk for my 4" grinder. I will use it to cut the cast iron sewer pipe to splice in the section of PVC. The box said it is used for cutting masonry and ceramic. That should be the right disk for the job right?

Anything I should watch out for in blade selection? Maybe there some variants I should be aware of?

The guy at Sears seems very knowledgeable (I was very surprised). He mentioned that the metal may melt and clog up the teeth of the cutting wheel. He suggest to run it through a block of concrete once in a while to knock off the metal deposits.