View Full Version : Imploding water heater?
Dilbert
09-27-2008, 05:32 PM
I recently replaced some pipe in my basement. I put them back in the same locations and didn't make any changes to how things ran.
While I am not a plumber, and don't play one on TV, these were not bent in like this last week.
Could it be something I did, or is there a bigger problem with my water heater?
Thanks, Cliff
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Redwood
09-27-2008, 05:41 PM
Did you close both the inlet and outlet of the water heater than allow it to cool?
Kinda the opposite of thermal expansion...
Dilbert
09-27-2008, 05:43 PM
After I reconnected?
It was disconnected for several hours, and turned off most of the day.
Then I turned the water back on, refilled the tank, ensured there were no leaks and turned the pilot on.
jadnashua
09-27-2008, 05:44 PM
A related question, maybe I'm missing it, but where it the T&P valve?
Dilbert
09-27-2008, 05:48 PM
Umm, as I said in the first post, I'm not a plumber, just a guy with a lot of tools who is a little too fearless.
What is a T&P valve? I guess just asking that question means I'm in trouble.
Redwood
09-27-2008, 05:49 PM
What I'm asking is if there was anytime when the water heater was in effect a closed container while it was cooling. If you were to take a 1 gallon tin and heat it in a pan of boiling water then screw on the cover and take it off the heat it would collapse....
Redwood
09-27-2008, 05:52 PM
The T&P valve is seen in the first and last picture side mounted next to the yellow energy guide label...
The smoke pipe installation doesn't look to good.
Dilbert
09-27-2008, 06:06 PM
What I'm asking is if there was anytime when the water heater was in effect a closed container while it was cooling. If you were to take a 1 gallon tin and heat it in a pan of boiling water then screw on the cover and take it off the heat it would collapse....
This isn't impossible.
I turned off the supply to the heater, then turned it off. I thought I drained it too.
It may have cooled while warm, with no way to relieve pressure, either negative or positive.
It's not leaking now, other than looking terrible, did I cause permanent damage?
Dilbert
09-27-2008, 06:08 PM
The T&P valve is seen in the first and last picture side mounted next to the yellow energy guide label...
Is it OK? This was the one that was there, I put it back where it was.
The smoke pipe installation doesn't look to good.
I agree, but this was not me. :)
I did not move the heater, this is the way it was when we moved in last year.
Dunbar Plumbing
09-27-2008, 06:10 PM
Have a licensed plumber replace the water heater before you end up on the 11 0'clock news with family members scattered all over your front lawn.
Dilbert
09-27-2008, 06:16 PM
Have a licensed plumber replace the water heater before you end up on the 11 0'clock news with family members scattered all over your front lawn.
Is this a real concern, or are you being facetious?
Dunbar Plumbing
09-27-2008, 06:19 PM
You have a malfunctioning water heater in your home that's allowing the structure of the device to collapse.
How many lives are you willing to gamble on this situation?
Shut the unit down
Most if not all would be on the phone with a plumber getting scheduled to have that device looked at, diagnosed and replaced.
It can't be made any clearer than the concern that led you to post these pictures and start a thread over it...is it?
Redwood
09-27-2008, 06:20 PM
No he's not it is a damaged pressure vessel and should not be used.
Dunbar Plumbing
09-27-2008, 06:44 PM
http://www.hotwater.com/bulletin/bulletin41.pdf
You probably have what looks like a swing check installed incorrectly or something is malfunctioning.
master plumber mark
09-27-2008, 07:07 PM
It looks like it has overheated some time in the past..
close to the boiling point..
I think you would be wise to change it out, it really does
look like it has been stretched out to its limit...
you ought ot change it before it takes out a room or two..
http://onsmartpages.com/weilhammerplumbingco/nss-folder/pictures/DSC04138.JPG (http://onsmartpages.com/weilhammerplumbingco/pictures/view_alone.nhtml?profile=pictures&UID=10019)
MACPLUMB 777
09-27-2008, 08:37 PM
I know exactly what happened to your water heater i have seen that many times before ! !
You have a excessive pressure bulge, caused by not having thermal expansion tank inSTALLED per mfg's spec's
you need the tank between the shut off ball valve and the water heater, when you turned the water heater off it caused excess
pressure to build up and invert the tank ! ! !
YOU HAVE A CHECK VALVE ON THE COLD WATER INLET, YOU MUST HAVE THERMAL EXPANSION TANK BETWEEN ANY VALVES AND THE WATER HEATER
If you look in the fire box you will see the tank setting down on
top of the burner,
this will cause carbon monoxide because the burner cannot burn correctly,
so yes shut heater down now ! !
And get replaced a. S. A. P. Be sure thermal expansion tank is moved to after the shut off valve or you could have the same problem again
e-mail me if you have any more questions
MACPLUMB 777
09-27-2008, 08:43 PM
also have plumber correct your vent problem, it may have been that way when you moved in, ! !
But it is you and your family that will suffer because of the incorrect install of this water heater
thats why you should always have a professional do the install and get it inspected by your town people
Judging by what I see in the back ground (DWV) and the heater vent I will guess this was a DIY install...It does appear that there is an expansion tank (failed?) but perhaps that tank is part of the heating system...can't tell from the pic
Whatever the reason the tank was subjected to pressure beyond its working pressure, and maybe even beyond its test pressure. The top "bulged" up, but the flue liner held the center down which is why the pipes bent inward. Discard the tank because it has been damaged beyond repair and its integrity has been compromised. At this time there is no way to tell why it happened.
Thanks hj for the explanation of why the pipes showed the way they do. It makes sense. One question, would this type of flexing cause the glass liner to crack and greatly shorten the service life even if it did not fail from other reasons?
Terry
09-28-2008, 08:55 AM
This is a critical safety Item and it would be wise to consider the services of a licensed plumber.
Watch this video... click here! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmJoyuUJj2Q)
Got time to watch a video on exploding water heaters?
If it were my home, and my family, I would disconnect the water heater and get it out of my home.
Just a little North of Kirkland. I like to use Rheem and Bradford White water heaters.
kingsotall
09-28-2008, 09:02 AM
Anyone get the feeling that all this is going in one ear and out the other¿
jimbo
09-28-2008, 09:41 AM
I thought the tops of water heaters were made concave....in other words dished in looking from the top. So it must have take some serious force to FURTHER dish it in to move the nipples like that. I have seen pictures of tanks which were over-pressured, and the nipples tilt outward.
I completely agree that the integrity of the top of that tank is seriously compromised, and should be taken out of service immediately.
Redwood
09-28-2008, 09:42 AM
Anyone get the feeling that all this is going in one ear and out the other¿
Yup!
It's just passing through without even being processed!
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2/Redwood39/DPRA3.jpg
nhmaster
09-28-2008, 09:45 AM
Umm, as I said in the first post, I'm not a plumber, just a guy with a lot of tools who is a little too fearless.
What is a T&P valve? I guess just asking that question means I'm in trouble.
Yet another shining example of the reasons why plumbing and gas fitting require experiance and a license
I have one of these tanks in my garage and will take pics of it as I strip away the sheet metal and expose the tank so we can see exactly what happened...
The glass lining cannot stretch so when the steel tank "bulged" the glass lining was ruined.
MACPLUMB 777
09-28-2008, 01:37 PM
Repeat the glass ling is the least of your problems ! ! !
Poisoning your family with carbon monoxide is the most important thing that should be on your mind right now,
your bottom head of the tank has reversed onto the burner
look at the top of the vent where it go's out the top see that
the flue has dropped down into the top of jacket,
the only reason this is not more noticeable is because of the ridgid copper pipe other wise his nipples would point at each other like a tepee
i will look on water heater mfg's websites to see if i can copy and paste a picture of what i am try to tell you ! !
kingsotall
09-28-2008, 07:03 PM
Yup!
It's just passing through without even being processed!
http://www.stomptokyo.com/badmoviereport/pics/D/DPRA3.jpg
lol @ pic!
I see now why nhmaster made this quote:
On a further note. When it comes to advice about gas piping or gas appliances or for that matter gas anything, I'm done. I'm not going to have anything to do with gas related questions anymore either helpfull or not helpfull or even wize cracks. It has become a painfully obvious that there are too many that are willing to take on a task that could very well injure or kill themselves or their families, with no regard given to the professional who's advice they seek. I have no idea what your abilities or qualifications are and frankly even if you post them I would still be skeptical unless you were able to post a copy of your license. Therefore in my mind it is not ethical for me to either give advice or make criticism of your project in one way or another.
Dunbar Plumbing
09-28-2008, 08:37 PM
I'm going to use this thread as a reference for future use in regards to showing how something simple as a homeowner replacing water lines can lead to impending disaster in such a short period of time.
Just because Bob Vila does it doesn't mean you can.
"Oh but I can't afford a plumber"
"Oh, we're on a budget"
"Well we just bought a bass boat, sorry, I'll do it myself"
"Well, I'll have to get back to you after I talk to my wife"
"If I supply the material, how much will it cost?"
frenchie
09-28-2008, 09:59 PM
I always use this video:
http://www.waterheaterblast.com/
(http://www.waterheaterblast.com/)
it's a lot shorter, so even impatient DIYers will actually watch it.
Redwood
09-29-2008, 08:28 AM
Yea it's short but it lacks the true effects...
Digging a hole, dropping one in the hole and lighting the fuse isn't real world!
When one of these cook off the house is toast!
Take a look at these links to see how the house makes out when a water heater blows!
TV News Coverage of a Water Heater Explosion (http://www.kpho.com/news/17189420/detail.html)
Slideshow showing the damage to the house from above link (http://www.kpho.com/slideshow/news/17191195/detail.html)
Thats real world baby!:eek:
Ladiesman271
09-29-2008, 10:09 AM
What I'm asking is if there was anytime when the water heater was in effect a closed container while it was cooling. If you were to take a 1 gallon tin and heat it in a pan of boiling water then screw on the cover and take it off the heat it would collapse....
It would not collapse if you use a vacuum relief valve on the cover. That water heater has one installed on it, but is it any good?
I wonder how old that heater is anyhow? Even to my DIYers eyes that water heater is now toast!
Redwood
09-29-2008, 10:28 AM
It really is a moot point whether it was vacuum or, pressure...
The water heater is scrap!
tankman 2
09-29-2008, 12:27 PM
For what it is worth, the expansion tank pictured looks to be one designed for a hydronic system. Not sure if it is connected to the water heater or not. If it is a hudronic tank it will not last long on a potable water system like this one.
btw
I agree. Change the water heater and have a professional do it!
nhmaster
09-29-2008, 12:30 PM
The expansion tank in the picture is connected to the boiler, not the water heater.
handyman4life
01-14-2009, 04:32 AM
The hot water tank of a conventional system can rust, leak, drip hot water from a faucet and explode. The tankless water heater has none of these problems. thanks
Definitely. The glass liner is not flexible so any movement of the metal would crack it. But since even a new heater might not have a perfect glass lining, that is why heaters have anode rods. One thing not mentioned in all the posting, unless I missed it while scanning them, is that it is almost impossible to create a destructive negative presssure with the heater in the basement, and even if it were possible, you have a vacuum relief valve to prevent it.
jimbo
01-14-2009, 08:33 AM
This doesn't end the debate, but is interesting. It shows that the bottom of a water heater is concave ( dished inward ) but the top is convex ( domed upward ):
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1ofSyXUW0TY
Scuba_Dave
01-14-2009, 10:54 AM
I wasn't aware an expansion tank was needed on a WH?
My last house had gas WH & it didn't have one. But that doesn't really mean anything as I found a lot of problems with my old house. I have seen them on boilers, but never one on a WH connection. New house was an oil fired WH & was replaced with an electric model when the oil fired started leaking & the bottom let loose. I know a new pressure relief valve was installed, as the old one was leaking
I saw the exploding Wh video on another site maybe 2 months ago
I was unaware that something like that could happen