Connecting PVC to Lead

[AndyDavis]

We just completed a significant remodeling job. Part of the job involved the installation of a new 4" branch drain line which was connected to the main line.

If it matters, the branch line services two toilets and a shower. The house is a slab foundation.

The real issue seems to be how the branch line was connected to the main line. The plumber wasn't able to get a proper coupling around the lead pipe, so he jammed a piece of PVC as far as he could and then used silicon to hold the PVC in place. He then made normal PVC to PVC connections for everything else.

We have had a different plumber in helping us clear a a clog on this line (the original contractors left a rag in the line), they ran a camera down the line and discovered the silicone.

According to them, this job is a great sin in the plumbing code and will always cause problems. I don't really doubt the first part, this was obviously a hack solution. I want to be sure about the second part. If it is going to cause problems, then I will go to the original contractor and insist that this is repaired (and that they pay). However, if this is a hack that isn't going to really be an issue, then I can live with it as well.

The estimate for the repair is just over $3K, the original job was just shy of $10K. Getting them to pay up may require litigation, and I'd rather not go there.

The new estimate is for breaking away the concrete, removing the lead pipe, and connecting the 4" PVC to the cast iron main drain with proper couplings. It also includes an Engineers Report (needed for some work that affects the slab).

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[master plumber mark]

what exactly is going on anyway??

is the line stopping up all the time???


has it become a major problem???


how long ago did the original plumber do the work???


more than a year and I doubt he will pay a cent

[AndyDavis]

The work was completed about a month ago.

We have had two stop ups a week apart.

For the first, I took the toilet closest to the mainline off and ran in my snake. It came out with fibers on it and the problem went away for a bit.

I think that what I did was push the rag back up the line a bit. Eventually it wasked back down and stopped things up again.

Then I had a plumber come out. He ran his auger up the line and also came out with fibers, but we never actually got the rag.

I have not had a stoppage since then (but that was only a week ago).

We got the camera guy in to verify that there was no foreign object in the line, and that is when he started freaking out about the original plumber's 'solution'. He claims that what was done will never work properly over long periods of time and will always cause problems.

[AndyDavis]

OK, I figured out how to get it to back up on demand. Just flush a couple of good sized toilet paper loads down the far toilet and presto, everything backs up.

Wish me luck on my fight with the contractor.

Thanks

[Cal]

You are saying "Lead Pipe" . Do you mean cast iron ? Also can't imagine the camara is going to see a silicone joint,,,it travels past that joint and the joint is outside the pipe. If the pipe is cast iron and the original plumber used an approved transition fitting BUT DID NOT SUPPORT IT then you probably have a sag or trap in the line . If he did just silicone it to the pipe,,,,,,Man, that's just wrong.

[AndyDavis]

I think the term I have seen here is 'soil tube' and it refers to the curved section of pipe that runs between the closet flange and the cast iron main drain.

The guy should have replaced the entire existing soil tube with a PVC soil tube. What he did do is cut off about 6 inches of the lead soil tube and silicone a short section of PVC into the remains.

So yes, the camera can see the residue of the silicone squishing into the joint. And yes, it is wrong on so many levels.

[Gary Swart]

I'm not a plumber, but it is my understanding that in the days before PVC/ABS plumbers often used a short length of lead pipe to transition between the cast iron drain and the toilet flange. This was done because the lead pipe would bend enough to make up for a slight misalignment. The connections to the cast iron was made with molten lead and oakum I believe. Now we use no hub couplers that will make that transition if both sides are male. I don't know how they do it with a female cast iron to male PVC/ABS, but I'm sure plumbers know how to do this as a matter of routine.

[hj]

At this point I would be concerned about the entire job, if he connected two toilets and anything else to the connection that was originally a closet bend. Unless it had a very long riser pipe, it would not normally be deep enough to do what you describe, and do it properly.

[AndyDavis]

I am very concerned about the entire job.

The new branch drain they put in does have a pretty good slope on it. I checked that before they poured the concrete. So I think the branch did end up deep enough.