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novicepiper
09-17-2008, 07:51 AM
Hello all - you really helped me out last time - so thanks to everyone involved :)

Just a quick question really (i know you would need to see the job) but generally speaking....

If i was to ask for a quote to get my second bathroom done:

Demo (including disposal) plumbing, tiling (walls and floor).

it includes:

room dimensions are L, W, H 10ft x 7ft x 9ft

complete demo: walls, ceiling and fixtures (sink/lav, bath, toilet/closet)

1 New sink install (boxed at present) sits in a vanity box. (needs assembling)
2 new bath install (this would inc framing out ready for bath) and wall mounted shower
3 tiling around bath (5ft x 5ft) and complete shower wall (2.5ft x 5ft)
4 levelling, securing floor + tiling floor

basically i would be lookinig for an estimate, low and high. I dont want to get ripped off as im not used to having someone else do the work...im just too busy to do this myself at the mo (work commitments/computer stuff)

many thanks for any help :) and once again, i know you would have to see the job but - no plumbing needs to be redone extensively - its just a straight forward rip out and put back sort of thing (obviously there may be some investigational work to be done) but on the whole everything is in decent condition

QUOTE IS FOR LABOUR ONLY as i would cover all materials

thanks for your time and input

novicepiper

hj
09-17-2008, 08:03 AM
QUOTE IS FOR LABOUR ONLY as i would cover all materials

That would be the deal breaker.
1. You WILL NOT have all the materials needed when they are needed so additional time needs to be figured while you go to get them. (My friend had to go 30 miles and it took about 2 hours round trip.)
2. Whether we figured $3,000.00 or $10,000, it would be immaterial unless you want to pay us travel time and per diem lodging and food. You need REAL prices from local plumbers who will actually be doing the work. Whether you get ripped off or not is up to you in your selection.
3. FEW plumbers will work for labor only, because there is not a lot of profit in labor once you calculate the overhead involved.
4. The only way to even start on a price for a remodel is to see the site. You will give the "best case" description of the project, but someone seeing the actual job might decide it is a "job from hell" because of the physical parameters.

novicepiper
09-17-2008, 08:12 AM
thanks HJ - i though ti might get a response like this - i did my best to explain but i guess i wont be getting anything of any use on here maybe :) thanks for your time and inoput though - appreciated (when i say materials) i mean i have the bath, the lav and closet/toilet and tiles in the house now. they were measured and they all fit 100% nothing needs to be relocated all the venting is new so no issues with illegal plumbing blunders etc.

those are the only materials i have etc - everything else would be bought in (would it be possible to quote for everything else) as 2 seperate breakdowns becuse i know how much materials cost - i just dont know the markup (trades etc)?

for me to buy the materials etc - id prob say around $2.5K? and maybe a rough guess of $3K for labour?


i dont know if that changes anything but ill wait for a few hours and see if you reply or anyone else says anything.

thanks again

np

jadnashua
09-17-2008, 10:23 AM
It really is too hard to say. Local labor rates, and the desire for a job would dictate at least some of the local prices. There is no such thing as a typical tile job, either. Without seeing how square, level, and plumb the walls are and any features you want and the size of the tile and the layout required...it just isn't feasible to give a WAG.

Get several references and quotes...talk to the guys and look at pictures of past jobs to see if you are comfortable with their work. Then decide. Unless the tub/shower is an exact match, the location of the drain might be a problem. Running vents can be a pain, and it would make a difference whether the one exiting the roof is in a good position, verses having to install new penetration. Then, what kind of roof is it: slate, metal, shingles, steep pitch, flat roof, etc., would all dictate different things and costs. Is there room in the attic to move? Are the existing walls plaster, drywall, are they coming out? Does the job entail repainting, or other wall covering.

There are too numerous things to decide the complexity of the job without being there. Make sure you have each contractor bid on the same thing, or you may not be able to compare prices.

jimbo
09-17-2008, 11:44 AM
Honestly, you are asking a question that cannot be answered long distance.

When you say you furnish material....does that include all the tile, the underlayment, the necessary fasteners, the cement board, the vapor barrier, the membrane for the floor.....etc. etc.??? Plus you really need two tradesman, a plumber and a tile guy. And it sounds like maybe a carpenter. Maybe you can find one guy to do it all, maybe not.

You really need a remodel contractor, who will have all these people either on staff, or on call.

Don't even know labor rates in your area. But if I had to just take a stab at just labor to remove a tub, install a new tub, tile walls, tile floor, vanity....I would say $2500 on the VERY low and, tops pushing $10K. At least that gives you a ball park to work with.

novicepiper
09-17-2008, 11:45 AM
ok ill try this this way :)

ALL THE PLUMBING IS BRAND NEW, PASSED INSPECTION AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH IT WHAT SO EVER...

how much would it cost to:

replace a cracked tub with the exact same one (everything exposed floors wall no tiles) basically cut the connecting pipes and install the new one?

same with the lav/sink
same with toilet/closet


the fixtures are the same model and brand

so that would be

tub install $$$
lav/sink install $$$
toilet/closet install $$$

and everything disposed of

this bathroom is totally accessable nothing too tight, nothing is old or damaged (pipe. vent wise)

i wait with baited breath...

thanks once again

ill post framing, tiling etc in other appropriate forums

:D

novicepiper
09-17-2008, 11:48 AM
Honestly, you are asking a question that cannot be answered long distance.

When you say you furnish material....does that include all the tile, the underlayment, the necessary fasteners, the cement board, the vapor barrier, the membrane for the floor.....etc. etc.??? Plus you really need two tradesman, a plumber and a tile guy. And it sounds like maybe a carpenter. Maybe you can find one guy to do it all, maybe not.

You really need a remodel contractor, who will have all these people either on staff, or on call.

Don't even know labor rates in your area. But if I had to just take a stab at just labor to remove a tub, install a new tub, tile walls, tile floor, vanity....I would say $2500 on the VERY low and, tops pushing $10K. At least that gives you a ball park to work with.



sweet jimbo - that will gove me an indiction somewhere to start.

i just have the raw tiles, and fixtures non accessories, adhesives or anything else just boxed goods

thank you so much for you $$ guestimations

:rolleyes:

novicepiper
09-17-2008, 11:49 AM
It really is too hard to say. Local labor rates, and the desire for a job would dictate at least some of the local prices. There is no such thing as a typical tile job, either. Without seeing how square, level, and plumb the walls are and any features you want and the size of the tile and the layout required...it just isn't feasible to give a WAG.

Get several references and quotes...talk to the guys and look at pictures of past jobs to see if you are comfortable with their work. Then decide. Unless the tub/shower is an exact match, the location of the drain might be a problem. Running vents can be a pain, and it would make a difference whether the one exiting the roof is in a good position, verses having to install new penetration. Then, what kind of roof is it: slate, metal, shingles, steep pitch, flat roof, etc., would all dictate different things and costs. Is there room in the attic to move? Are the existing walls plaster, drywall, are they coming out? Does the job entail repainting, or other wall covering.

There are too numerous things to decide the complexity of the job without being there. Make sure you have each contractor bid on the same thing, or you may not be able to compare prices.

thanks for the guidance jadnashua ;) and your reply

Southern Man
09-17-2008, 11:54 AM
ok ill try this this way :)..... :) Contractors hate to quote prices unless they see the job and you have your checkbook ready.

What I always do is price out all the materials. The labor costs are going to be at least that, and maybe 1.5 times that, on a project. Exceptions are cheap materials like lumber and drywall, which will be more. You'll have to add in more if you live on the 32nd floor of an apartment that can only be accessed 2 hours on Sunday.

The best thing is to get three quotes from local contractors, take the lowest unless its too low, and get references.

Redwood
09-17-2008, 12:03 PM
The ones that said get qoutes and referrences gave the best advice.

I assure you the labor rate in French Camp, Mississippi where the per capita income is $5,047 a year is quite a bit lower than it would be in New Canaan, Connecticut where it is $82,049 a year...

If I gave you my Connecticut Quote and you went with that in mind you just might have "Sucker" tattoed on your forehead.

novicepiper
09-17-2008, 12:05 PM
:) Contractors hate to quote prices unless they see the job and you have your checkbook ready.

What I always do is price out all the materials. The labor costs are going to be at least that, and maybe 1.5 times that, on a project. Exceptions are cheap materials like lumber and drywall, which will be more. You'll have to add in more if you live on the 32nd floor of an apartment that can only be accessed 2 hours on Sunday.

The best thing is to get three quotes from local contractors, take the lowest unless its too low, and get references.


cool - excellent advice - thanks Southern Man, that really helped :)

Redwood
09-17-2008, 12:09 PM
If you get a couple that are close then one is quite a bit lower I would have some concerns about the low bid and if the job was ever going to be completed.

novicepiper
09-17-2008, 12:12 PM
The ones that said get qoutes and referrences gave the best advice.

I assure you the labor rate in French Camp, Mississippi where the per capita income is $5,047 a year is quite a bit lower than it would be in New Canaan, Connecticut where it is $82,049 a year...

If I gave you my Connecticut Quote and you went with that in mind you just might have "Sucker" tattoed on your forehead.


so let me get this right mr presidential nominee.....what your saying is - if i was to be as unfortunate to live in Connecticut (never been to Connecticut so im not negative) you would charge me through the nose becuse i earn more than the mississippi folk?

i may have red that wrong but thats what it sounds like to me you capitalist.....only joking - yeah i hear what your saying......every trade trys to screw the punter for as much as they can... the good ones just do a really good job :) also a joke - you helped me out a great deal on my last project - so i know your decent enough to have a joke with

im going to say this will probably cost me somewhere in the region of $4.5 $7K

novicepiper
09-17-2008, 12:14 PM
what sort of time scale do you think this would take in days etc from demo to completion?

thanks - yeah i heard of low quotes!!!

jadnashua
09-17-2008, 12:25 PM
Demo could go quick, but again, without seeing it, it's hard to tell. Disposal could be a problem...you might need to rent a dumpster. The tub could be cast iron, or plastic, the sink could be undermount, drop in, or tiled in. The size of the hallways and door, access to a window and placement of the dumpster all could affect how easy it is to remove the demolition debris. The walls could be mudded, cbu or drywall. Really, if you expect an accurate assessment, you'd be lucky to get it here since we do not know your local labor rates nor can we see the room and dwelling layout. It might require placing protection down over the carpeting in the hallway, wood floors, whatever to ensure nothing else was damaged in the process. Can some things be left, of must the place be returned to "normal" as much as possible each evening (that could take easily an hour off the productive day - time is money). And, yes, with people living in high-cost areas, you will be charged more for the labor - the guy doing the work has to live, too.

A remodel is NEVER without some gotchas...hopefully small, but not always.

Get some local quotes, then you'll know...

Redwood
09-17-2008, 12:40 PM
so let me get this right mr presidential nominee.....what your saying is - if i was to be as unfortunate to live in Connecticut (never been to Connecticut so im not negative) you would charge me through the nose becuse i earn more than the mississippi folk?

i may have red that wrong but thats what it sounds like to me you capitalist.....only joking - yeah i hear what your saying......every trade trys to screw the punter for as much as they can... the good ones just do a really good job :) also a joke - you helped me out a great deal on my last project - so i know your decent enough to have a joke with

im going to say this will probably cost me somewhere in the region of $4.5 $7K

Yea thats kinda right. If you lived in French Camp Missisippi in a $45K shack we could use some of that good plumbing stuff that went to the dump in New Orleans after Katrina and your shack would have a nice upgrade. I wouldn't charge much cause it doesn't cost me very much for that old doublewide $47K tin house on wheels I live in just up the street from your shack...

On the other hand remodeling your $ 1.8M home in New Canaan, CT. might just cost a little more but then it costs me a little more to live there too...

Of course in French Camp we kin probably have Crawdads n Hot Sauce for lunch that we git out of the trap down in the crik.

jimbo
09-17-2008, 01:07 PM
so let me get this right mr presidential nominee.....what your saying is - if i was to be as unfortunate to live in Connecticut (never been to Connecticut so im not negative) you would charge me through the nose becuse i earn more than the mississippi folk?



Absolutely!.

For example, here in S. Calif. my little 600 sqft condo ( 1 BR ) would sell in today's market for $150k. 30 months ago, the were selling for $300K. Fortunately I bought mine in 1990 for $70!

The point is, skilled labor cost a lot more here than it does somewhere where a fairly decent house can still be bought for $100. ( There ARE places like that, no????)

hj
09-19-2008, 08:24 AM
Charging more because you live in NJ or AZ, is not ripping you off. It is a function of the cost of living. If you make more by living in a certain area, then so will ALL the people who provide services to you. I do not quote materials separate from labor, since it is none of you business how much I mark things up. Your only duty is to evaluate my total price with others, along with your impression of our interaction, compared to others and decide who can give you the best job. I once had a customer call my wholesaler, saying she was my secretary, in order to get my cost on the tub I installed, and then wanted a discount based on what she thought I should have charged for it.

novicepiper
03-19-2009, 04:29 PM
Charging more because you live in NJ or AZ, is not ripping you off. It is a function of the cost of living. If you make more by living in a certain area, then so will ALL the people who provide services to you. I do not quote materials separate from labor, since it is none of you business how much I mark things up. Your only duty is to evaluate my total price with others, along with your impression of our interaction, compared to others and decide who can give you the best job. I once had a customer call my wholesaler, saying she was my secretary, in order to get my cost on the tub I installed, and then wanted a discount based on what she thought I should have charged for it.

well that's just plain cheeky - i'll remember that one though and call before you install:)

little buddy
03-19-2009, 07:18 PM
I think the bottom line is, beings you are capeable of doing this job yourself but it appears you don't feel you have the time. Then you have to ask the question " what is this worth to me and will I make enough on this computer job to pay for it." Some things are worth more to some people than others just not to mess with it. My self, I hate to pay for something that I can do my self.

GabeS
03-20-2009, 10:35 AM
Why are you making this so complicated? It's very simple. Call 4 contractors and have them all come to your house. Tell them exactly what you want to do and have them each give you their estimates. Done. End of story. Make contractor responsibility your number one priority and price your second, and then you'll be happy with the end result.

I'm sure you heard this before: don't pick the lowest price.

Nothing is free. If one person's price is lower than some one else's, there's a reason for it. I'm a strong believer in you get what you pay for.

SewerRatz
03-20-2009, 12:47 PM
I just came from quoting a homeowner on a flood control system. He was going to hire me on the spot, but I informed he he is best to get at least two other estimates first. There is two reasons for this, first is that I want him to feel comfortable with me and my prices and the amount of work I detailed on the quote. Second is some townships that have been having issues with their sewers backing up into basements will split the cost, but the home owner must prove they had gotten three bids, and selected the best bid for the price. These cities do not care to much about price, but they do care about the quality of the flood control system that the contractor is proposing to install.

So as everyone here is telling you just call a few local contractors and get the quotes. There is no way you can compare what your contractors in your area to what you get quoted here on the net. Cost of living is different in every area. If a contractor lives in an area where cost of living is high, his prices are going to be higher so he can survive.