Can I tie these 3 drains together and empty into a crock??

I'll try to make this simple. I have a septic system and the main line goes out about 5ft above the basement floor.

I am planning on installing a bathroom in the basement. As such, I've decided on a Saniflo Sanicompact macerating toilet that requires no venting, and discharges into a 1" pipe. I have a location right above the toilet that is 4" pipe which i can easily tie into...so I think that is solved.

But to use this non-venting unit, I cant tie the sink and shower into it. So, I plan running pvc drain line from the sink and shower about 12 ft away into a pre-existing crock which is emptied by a sub-pump. The crock is there for our washing machine and laundry tub.

Can I tie these two lines together on their way to the crock? Ideally, I'd like to also tie in a kitchen sink drain which drops in from above too. So there'd be a kitchen sink drain from above, tee'd into a basement level sink drain pipe which would be tied into the shower drain....in that order....then on to the crock. The entire run would be about 15 feet with 1 90 and 2 45's. IF this is possible, what size pipes should I be using? Is there a certain layout/setup that would make this work?

Also, when emptying into a crock like this, does the shower and sink(s) need to be vented? Separately, or individually? If so, can the vent exit my basement horizontally, above grade?

Thanks for the anticipated help.

thefed said:

I plan running pvc drain line from the sink and shower about 12 ft away into a pre-existing crock which is emptied by a sub-pump. The crock is there for our washing machine and laundry tub.

Can I tie these two lines together on their way to the crock?

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Sure, and I would use a 2" line.

thefed said:

Ideally, I'd like to also tie in a kitchen sink drain which drops in from above too.

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That might seem convenient, but it is certainly not ideal. Always use only gravity wherever possible. Draining a sink from above-ground to below-ground and using a pump to push the discharge back up and out is inefficient and less reliable. The effort required to plumb things correctly now will pay off in the end.

thefed said:

Also, when emptying into a crock like this, does the shower and sink(s) need to be vented?

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There is probably some code that says "yes", but venting might not actually be mechanically necessary there since you are draining into an open-top gray-water sump that is not producing any dangerous or obnoxious gasses. Nevertheless, I placed a "running trap" at the end of the line going to the sump for my basement tub and sink, and I did that to avoid cutting the floor for the tub drain while keeping any musty odor confined to the sump.

leejosepho said:

Sure, and I would use a 2" line.



That might seem convenient, but it is certainly not ideal. Always use only gravity wherever possible. Draining a sink from above-ground to below-ground and using a pump to push the discharge back up and out is inefficient and less reliable. The effort required to plumb things correctly now will pay off in the end.



There is probably some code that says "yes", but venting might not actually be mechanically necessary there since you are draining into an open-top gray-water sump that is not producing any dangerous or obnoxious gasses. Nevertheless, I placed a "running trap" at the end of the line going to the sump for my basement tub and sink, and I did that to avoid cutting the floor for the tub drain while keeping any musty odor confined to the sump.

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I see what you mean about the kitchen drain BUT there is no way for me to keep it tied in 'as-is' and squeeze all 3 things into the new bathroom. So,since I'll need to tie it in with the other 2 on the way to the crock, what size line should I use? I thought 2" coming down from sink, tie into 2"from basement sink, which would empty into a 3" line along with the shower and run that 3" to the crock....or is the 3" overkill? The most that would be running is my kitchen sink and shower at the same time...but my well water pressure sucks so it likely wouldnt be for long!

I'm not a fan of the Sani-Flo systems.
Personally I'd bite the bullet bust some concrete and put in a full ejector pit.

crock

The "crock" is an open, unvented basin designed for a specific use. It is NOT for a kitchen sink, (the sump pump is also not designed to pump kitchen sink waste), nor is a bathtub an approved fixture to drain into it. If you do do it, you will be back here someday asking why your basement has these odd odors in it. Your situation is why I hesitate to advise DIY'ers who are trying to cut corners.

hj said:

The "crock" is an open, unvented basin designed for a specific use. It is NOT for a kitchen sink, (the sump pump is also not designed to pump kitchen sink waste) ...

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There is another reason to not do as you have considered unless you do actually install the sewage sump Redwood has mentioned ... and overall, that really is what would be best.

In my own case, I left the sump in place as it was for the bathtub/shower and dehumidifier, and I installed a sealed sump in the floor for the basement toilet and sinks (bath and kitchenette). I also did that to separate grey water and sewage to lighten the load on my septic system. I have a separate drain field for bath and washing-machine discharge.

You can not drain a lav, sink, shower or tub into an open pit.

I have installed a few saniflow systems with lav sinks. They do need a vent. You would still need to vent your other fixtures. Lav sink and tub

Sooo....what CAN drain into an open crock? I'm not doubting anyone here, but wondering what they can be used for. Is my washing machine ok? If so, what makes bathwater or lav water any different? Just trying to learn!



HJ- The difference between my situation and the next guy's is that I'm not trying to 'cut corners'. I'm trying to figure out what will and won't work. Unfortunately I dont have the $$ to pay a plumber $60+/hr to do the job for me. As such, I'm using what little knowledge I have to devise a plan, then running that plan past those with more experience. I've adjusted and re-adjusted many aspects of this project as i've learned what is and isnt acceptable...and this aspect is no different. I never thought about kitchen waste being an issue for the pump,as well as odors....so thanks for bringing that up.


It seems my next option to consider then will be a sewage ejector pump and crock. The reason I avoided exploring this option is that I figure the crock needs vented....all the way to the roof....and that will be extremely difficult to do on a budget. If I am wrong,or there are other options, please let me know! Thanks

patrick88 said:

I have installed a few saniflow systems with lav sinks. They do need a vent. You would still need to vent your other fixtures. Lav sink and tub

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Certain Saniflo systems do need vented, but the SaniCompact I referenced does not need vented as it is considered a 'forced main'. It can not be tied into lav or shower.

You can't drain anything into an open crock or pit or whatever. Sink and shower waste by code must be run to a sewer. Only an Approved vessel with a sealed air tight lid and the proper ejection pump can be used.

drain

60.00/hr? I wouldn't even start my truck for that. Your bathroom fixtures ALL need to drain into a sealed ejector pump system. Save the money you would spend on that Mickey Mouse unit and do it correctly.

The only thing that can drain into an open crock is draintile conveying clear water(rain water) I would not put anything else in there, your asking for trouble if you do.

We have no way of knowing where You live. Soo We can't say if the toilet setup is accepted where You live. Call the inspector!!

Master Plumber 101 said:

The only thing that can drain into an open crock is draintile conveying clear water(rain water) I would not put anything else in there, your asking for trouble if you do.

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Maybe some code has changed in recent years, but I have always known at least washing machines in basements to drain into sumps with pedestal pumps. Are you saying that is no longer permitted? Also, those sumps usually have loose-fitting safety covers, but they are still "open" rather than tightly-sealed and mechanically vented.

The only thing that can go into an open pit is ground water!
That is the code!
Anything else will cause objectionable odors and funk.

well it must have been allowed at some point in NE ohio, because my home was built in the 50's and it's been like that since built....house has been in the family since then...and it doesnt stink yet!


thanks for all the info guys, i appreciate it

Most likley whoever plumbed it that way never got it inspected. That does not make it right. We run across cesspools and illegal plumbing all the time.

In terms of ejector pump systems, what is the word on solids-handling vs. grinders and could a solids-handling pump later be switched out for a grinder in say a 30 gal. basin? Or does basin sizing become an issue?

The other issue to be address is that if you install a macerating toilet and or a waste ejection pump on a private septic system the tank and leach field have to be upsized by 50% in order to handle the suspended solids that will clog the leach field and suffocate the bacteria in the septic tank. Failure to do this is not only a code violation but will drastically recuce the life of the leachfield and void any homeowners insurance that may have addressed a problem. When this issue is taken into consideration the 60 bucks an hour is the least of the expense.