TOTO Ultramax II, Gwyneth MS604114CEFG toilet review

[Terry]

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/toto/ms604_angle_seat.jpg
TOTO Gwyneth MS604114CEFG toilet review
Made in USA
Video of performance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn9_zctMge0)
Toto has a new model called the Gwyneth with the WaterSense Ecoflush.
1.28 gallons, with the double cyclone rinse and Sanagloss in White, Beige/Biscuit and Bone. The Gray and Ebony/Black are without Sanagloss. It comes with the SS114 softclose seat and is the universal bowl height 16-1/8" before the seat is added. MaP testing has given it a 500 gram rating, which in many oppions is plenty for performance. Specs for Gwyneth (http://www.terrylove.com/pdf/ms604_specs.pdf)
http://www.terrylove.com/wc/toto/ms604_angle.jpg
Out of the box, the Gwyneth one-piece is a pop and drop installation.
Pop the box, and drop it on some new wax.

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/toto/ms604_bowl_01.jpg
The bowl hase two rinse outlets near the top of the bowl, the water swings around the bowl when rinsing. Toto calls it their "Double Cyclone"
White, Beige and Bone come with the super smooth ion barrier glazing that they call Sanagloss. I have a bowl downstairs with the same glazing that is 2.5 years old, and it's still very smooth, like the day it was installed.

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/toto/ms604_inside_tank.jpg

Inside the tank of the MS604 Gwyneth. It uses the Red Toto 3" flapper, replacements are found at most hardware stores. The fill valve prevents overfilling of the bowl.
http://www.easycarts.net/ecarts/terrylove/Toto_Toilets.html#MS604114CEFG


Originally, TOTO had a one-piece and a two-piece Gwyneth
These are now:
MS604114CEFG, Ultramax II
CST454CEFG, Drake II

[funkyd]

Does anyone have any updated reviews or comments on the 1 piece Gwyneth (with or without Sanagloss). I am very close to purchasing 3 of them for my home reno and just want to make sure that they are as fantastic as they appear to be. :cool:

Specs for Gwyneth (http://www.terrylove.com/pdf/ms604_specs.pdf)

http://www.terrylove.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6660&stc=1&d=1235262454

[loke]

Have had our two Gwyneths since June (Sanagloss) and have had no clogs or problems. One does need to be sure to push the flush lever down completely (no need to hold there, though) as an incomplete push can result in an incomplete flush. Expect that's the same with all toilets.

I really like the look, too.

And if you have any concerns about the seat shape - one gets accustomed to it very quickly and I now prefer it to the flat seat on our 1 remaining waterhog toilet. Had some doubts prior to purchasing.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn9_zctMge0

[loke]

Should have added that the bowl stays much cleaner than on our old regular style toilets (with the numerous holes under the rim). We'd get mucky buildup quite quickly on the old toilet and that just isn't happening now - maybe in part because these are NEW toilets. But swirling action of the double cyclone and having just the two openings under the rim is definitely good.

[GramGram]

What are the advantages of this one over Toto EcoDrake besides Sani-gloss and Cyclone flush? I really like my EcoDrake and I'm trying to decide what to use in my other bathroom.

Thanks,
Sue

[jadnashua]

SanaGlos is super smooth so things have more difficulty sticking and rinse off easier. It also has some antimicrobial properties. Personaly, I think it is a good choice. Some other companies offer similar finishes, but I haven't compared them. I know Duravit makes one they call Wondergloss (or something like that). Most toilets sold in Japan have similar finishes.

[loke]

Gram Gram -
There probably aren't advantages for the Gwyneth over the Eco Drake if easier cleaning isn't important to you and you don't need a one piece. Maybe you aren't the one who has to do the cleaning!

For me one important advantage of the Gwyneth was that it has about the shortest overall toilet height of the toilets with ADA height bowls - I had to contend with a banjo counter. But if height isn't a concern then there are more options.

For my 3rd bathroom (basement) I would probably consider the Eco Drake, even with the possibility of more cleaning needed, just because I don't have the banjo counter there and the cost is much less.

[Terry]

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/toto/cst454_zoom.jpg
Toto Also has the Gwyneth Two-Piece HET (http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?26275-User-review-on-2-piece-Gwenyth-Drake-II&highlight=cst454cefg)toilet with Double Cyclone rinse,
Comfort height,
Sanagloss
With a good MaP rating.
CST454CEFG
http://www.easycarts.net/ecarts/terrylove/Toto_Toilets.html#cst454

Specs for CST454CEFG (http://www.terrylove.com/pdf/cst454_spec.pdf)

[Terry]

I've been using a Gwyneth one-piece for a few months now.
The water in the bowl is pretty similar to the Drake and Ultramax, except that there is a bit less volume in the bowl.

The flush is pretty quick and rinses fairly well.
The comfort height is nice.
Specs for Gwyneth (http://www.terrylove.com/pdf/ms604_specs.pdf)

Video of performance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn9_zctMge0)

[rsmith99]

I installed a two piece Gwyneth a week ago and it is working fine.

It was installed into a narrow space so I opted for the two piece to make it easier to set in place. (Bad Back!)

The first Gwyneth I purchased was not flat on the bottom and caused it to rock. I took it back and got a new one. This one was perfect. The install went well. The first flush caused a gush of water to shoot out of the bowl and hit the wall. That made me worry. But after that initial flush, it has worked fine. The flush is very fast and the tank fill time is probably about 30 seconds. Much faster than the old toilet.

The only problem I had was tightening the tank bolts. There are three tabs on the back of the bowl that are supposed to touch the tank when everything has been installed. I tightened the two tank bolts as far as I felt comfortable but there was still about a 1/16" gap on the left front tab. I am afraid to tighten it any further for fear of braking the tank. This is exactly why I would opt for a one piece toilet if I had room to maneuver around to install it.

I am very glad I purchased a Toto toilet. Much more expensive than the standard toilets but it shows in the quality of the toilet.



I don't even look at the tabs. I tighten until it feels right.
Terry


Specs for CST454CEFG (http://www.terrylove.com/pdf/cst454_spec.pdf)

[ayeh]

Hi Terry.

I ran across your site today and have been studying it. I'm interested in the Gwyneth two-piece. You don't have any reviews yet, but I'm interested in it because I'm in the LA area. Do you think the Gwyneth might flush as well or better as my standard Kohler 1.6 from Home Depot a few years ago?

Also, is there a reason that you cannot ship the CST454CEFG to LA?

Thanks,
Arthur



Arthur,
I sell the Toto in Clarmont CA, just a little East of Los Angeles.
No shipping if you will call there.
We also deliver in the area there for $39.99
I've been using the one-piece version for a while, and the two-piece is supposed to work even a little better.
http://www.easycarts.net/ecarts/terrylove/WaterSense_Toilets.html
Terry Love


I've been using a Gwyneth one-piece for a few months now.
The water in the bowl is pretty similar to the Drake and Ultramax, except that there is a bit less volume in the bowl.

The flush is pretty quick and rinses fairly well.
The comfort height is nice.
Specs for Gwyneth (http://www.terrylove.com/pdf/ms604_specs.pdf)

[Hans]

I just had the two piece Gwyneth sanigloss ADA height (model CST 45CEF) installed, replacing a lovely water hog 1926 American Standard Devoro (not baby Devoro) with a hairline crack in the base.

The flush on the Gwineth is awesome, and it handles the large masses as advertised. I selected this after much lurking on the website.
The slow close lid is fun too.

We had to re-pipe the fill line because the old toilet fill line came in at the top of the tank, not the bottom as in modern toilets.

We are now noticing a sewer like odor or a urine odor when the bathroom door is closed (no interior fan yet).

We suspect either a crack in the cast iron drain pipe or a clogged vent pipe or similar ,based on an article in the Ask the Builder
Sewer Gas Smell
By Tim Carter
©1993-2009 Tim Carter.

I wanted a second opinion before I called the plumber in for a smoke test.

Thank you so much for all your help.

Joey

Video of performance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn9_zctMge0)

[micp879]

Maybe try a new wax ring? It is possible that when you installed the toilet, the seal provided by the compressed wax ring was broken, allowing sewer gases to seap back into the bathroom from the sewer drain pipe. Have you noticed any water leaking around the base of the toilet?

[SanDiegoSue]

Terry,

Am curious why the Gwyneth did not make your list of recommendations for toilets "that work in today's world". We just bought one (not installed yet) and now have second thoughts about it as it's not on your list at terrylove.com/crtoilet.htm.

Which would you say is your favorite Toto 1.28 gpf (considering performance, price, and ease of parts replacement for a DIYer), the EcoUltramax?

Sue

P.S. Thanks for the great website and forum.

[Terry]

The Gwyneth works fine. I need to update the list.

Video of performance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn9_zctMge0)

[funkyd]

I ended up purchasing 3 Gwyneth once piece toilets and we absolutely LOVE them!
The universal height is great...except now when i use someone else's toilet it always seems so low! lol The Sanagloss is good and the double cyclone flush cleans very well most times however sometimes you do need to use the brush a bit.
My only minor complaint would be that the flush is a little bit noisy but only for a second so no big deal.
Overall I rate this 9.5 out of 10 :)

Video of performance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn9_zctMge0)

[SamC]

Are the fill valve and flush valve on the one and two-piece Gwyneths replaceable with the Korky parts from Lowe's?

[jadnashua]

Toto uses a few different valve manufacturers. One of them is Korky. While you can replace the normal wear part on the Korky supplied versions (cap assembly and flapper) with their parts stocked at Lowes. You may not want to replace the whole valve assembly (not normally necessary anyway). It will work, but they have them made with a custom restrictor to get the bowl to tank water ratio just right to minimize any excess water use dumped down the drain into the bowl.

[stark]

I've been using a Gwyneth one-piece for a few months now.
The water in the bowl is pretty similar to the Drake and Ultramax, except that there is a bit less volume in the bowl.

The flush is pretty quick and rinses fairly well.
The comfort height is nice.
Specs for Gwyneth (http://www.terrylove.com/pdf/ms604_specs.pdf)

Hey Terry,

1) So how does the bowl rinse of the Gwyneth 1.28 gpf double-cyclone compare to the bowl rinse of the Guinevere/Soiree 1.6 gpf double-cyclone? Is it noticeably different?

2) Would you say the bowl rinse of the Gwyneth 1.28 gpf double-cyclone is better than the bowl rinse of the Drake 1.6 GMAX?

Thanks!

Video of performance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn9_zctMge0)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn9_zctMge0

[stark]

The Gwyneth works fine. I need to update the list.

So where would you rank it? :)

Video of performance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn9_zctMge0)

[rrsears]

I read your opinions on Consumer Reports testing. I do have a concern, though, about the Ultramax II that I'm looking to buy. I saw the video from Toto showing the flushing of the blue liquid. They showed the blue liquid flushed completely. The video produced by Consumer Reports actually showed that the blue liquid did not flush completely on the first flush but had to be flushed a second time to remove the blue liquid. What would cause that to happen? Are you still very confident in the flushing ability in the Double Cyclone flush? Thanks a lot.

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/home/2009/08/best-toilet-ratings-consumer-reports-toto-kohler-gerber-american-standard-gallons-per-flush.html

Rick

[Terry]

I have the Ultramax II in my main bath.

So after reading your post, and watching the CR video, I went upstairs and tried the same thing on mine.

It worked fine.

I have no ideal what Consumer Reports is doing to make their Ultramax II fail a test like that.

Neither mine, nor any that I have installed for customers work like the one on the Consumer Reports Video.

So the big question is, What have they done?

Are they still unhappy with my report to the point that they now need to make stuff up?
Here are a few emails I got from Consumer Reports on 2000 (http://www.politechbot.com/p-01035.html)

Video of performance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn9_zctMge0) of the Ultramax II

[Terry]

I would put it just below the Sanagloss version of the Drake and Ultramax.

I still like those a bunch.
I have the Sanagloss Ultramax downstairs.

[rrsears]

Thanks for your quick response. We cannot get the Ultramax with Sanagloss in Bone. Which would you recommend, the Ultramax without the Sanagloss or the Ultramax II with Sanagloss? We are not going to get the Drake because we want a one-piece toilet. Thanks again.

Rick

[Terry]

It bepends on your water.
If youir water leaves rings, then the Sanagloss II in Bone may be better, or the Carlyle, with comes in Bone and Sanagloss.

[rrsears]

Thanks a million for your help, Terry. With our horrendously hard water in Arizona, I think the answer is clear--Ultramax II with Sanagloss it is! You've been of great assistance to me--Your website ROCKS!!!

Rick

[susanna]

Have had my Ultramax ll for several months now and I can't say enough about how well it works and how easy it is to clean! I did a lot of research on your site before spending that kind of money and am so pleased that I didn't get the American Standard Cadet. I absolutely love the Ultramax ll's cyclone flush...it is so quick, and the refill time is fantastic. The cleaning is easy too. I just spray a little cleaner on it, flush and the yuck is gone. I bought a soft brush for cleaning and haven't needed to use it once. The interior bowl configuration does have a shadow at the water line which can make the bowl look dirty when it isn't. And I do wish the seat was a little easier to clean where the bolts meet the bowl. There is opportunity for liquids to get under there. There is a bit of splash back on the front underside of the seat, but it is easy to clean, so that's ok. I have considered getting a Bemis seat instead. Any thoughts?
All in all, I wouldn't trade my Toto for any other toilet!
No need for a plunger yet either! Woohoo! And that was a big consideration with the guys in the house...
Installation would have been easy but my contractor made a "minor" error in measuring the distance from the wall to the drain. Was off a quarter inch and I was being told I would have to get a different toilet. We finally decided to make a niche in the wall to accomodate the difference, but when they got in there the cast iron vent pipe was in the way. So the tiler curved the wall behind the toilet to fit. I am so glad I insisted that there must be a way to make it work! It actually looks really cool, like we planned it that way!

Anyway, thanks Terry and everyone who helped!
Su

[slpknt10l03]

I love this tiolet! Definently worth the money. This is my first Toto and i think I'm hooked.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_oFSb3RmfBjg/SvxV8ExM9MI/AAAAAAACMK0/AgX7pJIOE0o/s640/IMG_0711.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/slpknt10l03/TOTOUltramaxIIWithSanagloss#)

[fred54]

I have the Ultramax II in my main bath.

So after reading your post, and watching the CR video, I went upstairs and tried the same thing on mine.

It worked fine.

I have no ideal what Consumer Reports is doing to make their Ultramax II fail a test like that.

Neither mine, nor any that I have installed for customers work like the one on the Consumer Reports Video.

So the big question is, What have they done?

I

Terry, as someone who is actively looking to replace an old toilet, I have been looking into my various Toto options and came across both the Consumer Reports article and your great web site.

It seems really crazy that CR could get such a drastically different result than other people, including you, seem to have experienced.

So I took a careful look at both the Toto video and the CR video of the Ultramax II flush with blue dye. What seemed fairly apparent to me was that the water level in the bowl (prior to the flush) was much lower in the CR video than the Toto video.

In the Toto video, it appears that the water level exactly fills the depression in the bottom of the bowl, and then slightly overflows the depression when they add the blue dye. However, in the CR video, with the dye added, the water does not seem to fill the depression.

Could this be a clue as to why CR got a different result?

I don't know how interested you are in doing more experiments, or if you still have your Ultramax II, but you might like to try scooping out some water from the bowl and then re-trying the dye test. Perhaps that would reproduce CR's result?

In any case, thanks for this really valuable and informative web site!

[Terry]

In the Toto video, it appears that the water level exactly fills the depression in the bottom of the bowl, and then slightly overflows the depression when they add the blue dye. However, in the CR video, with the dye added, the water does not seem to fill the depression.

Could this be a clue as to why CR got a different result?


It's more then just that.
When I showed the CR video to Jamie, he immediately came to the same conclusion I did.

Somebody had plugged the bowl.

They plugged the bowl up, and then ran their test.
When you plug a bowl, the water doesn't siphon out.
So how do you make a "bowl test" fail? You stuff it with rubber sponges,
and then make a video of it.

However, they did mention two other toilet models in their test nine times.
One Gerber toilet got five mentions, and the Kohler they listed four times.
The Gerber had a round bowl, an elongated bowl and an ADA bowl, and the same tank.
The Kohler was the same toilet, with the choice of a big box, two boxes, or two boxes with a different label.

I have the Ultramax II in my main bath.
Works great!
I sell lot's of the Ultramax II, many of those are referring their friends and neighbors.
Anytime CR needs tips on toilets, they can give me a call.

And I promise I won't write reports on car batteries.

Consumer Reports wants to flush "Consumer Toilet Report" site (http://seclists.org/politech/2000/Mar/73)

[SteveW]

I can't speak to why the CR test is so different from others' experience, but would just add my real-life experience. I have 2 Ultramax II's, and 1 Soiree. Both have Double Cyclone technology and both work well. I think the Ultramax II works a little better, since it really seems to kind of "suck" the waste out of the bowl rather than "push" it out. It is truly amazing to see just how rapidly, and how completely, it does so. Suffice it to say that my family and I have given these toilets a very good workout and they really do perform nearly flawlessly.

The other discrepancy is that the one-piece Ultramax IIs, like I have, have a MaP score of 500, which is acceptable but lower than the two-piece models, and lower than many other Toto toilets. Despite this, I really think the real-world experience I've had with them would suggest a much higher score than was seen in the lab.

[SteveW]

I love this tiolet! Definently worth the money. This is my first Toto and i think I'm hooked.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_oFSb3RmfBjg/SvxV8ExM9MI/AAAAAAACMK0/AgX7pJIOE0o/s640/IMG_0711.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/slpknt10l03/TOTOUltramaxIIWithSanagloss#)


What's up with the base of the toilet? Looks like a couple inches of caulk? Or is it sitting on sort sort of elevated base?

[lazypineapple]

Just bought 2 MS604114CEFG , UltraMax II.
Installed the 1st one,(remodeling),
Very nice unit. , clean flushing, and quick,
this Throne, does a complete flush in 20 sec, from the time you push the handle til the water shuts off.
very pleased ,

[Terry]

I've been selling a lot of these lately.
Most are repeat or referred sales.
Washington Towers in downtown Bellevue is on location that is just popping right now.

http://www.terrylove.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6660&stc=1&d=1235262454

We're pulling a lot of Sterling toilets to make way for them.

[Reader Review]

Utltramax II installed by owner and working great! The base of the old toilet was a little different in shape than the Ultramax but you can't tell. I'm ready to do your installs for $175.00. In fact I'll do them for $150 and send you $25.00. But I don't think I can carry the toilets over one shoulder.
Thanks,
Alan P
Friday Harbor

[Menghsiu]

Dear Terry,

I just remodeled the bathroom and installed a Ultramax II. It was fine for the first 3 weeks, but now there's this dripping sound and then the tank will refill after about 30 minutes. For a while I couldn't see where the leak was coming from, then this one time when I heard the tank was being filled, I opened up the tank and see that underneath the green cap (where Cyclone was written) I can see water dripping from it. I unclip the green cap and there were three small jet streams shooting to three different directions. Now instead of dripping sound, it has turned into a hissing sound! I just turned the water feeding the tank off as not to waste water until I have to use it... Does this sound like a serious problem? Is this a easy fix that I can do? I don't know anything about plumbing...

[Terry]

Turn off the water to the tank.
If the tank level goes down, the flapper is leaking.

If the tank level is steady, then the fill valve may need cleaning or replacement.

Water dripping from the top of the fill valve is the anti-siphon action of the valve and is most likely normal.

[Menghsiu]

I think I might have found the problem. When I first looked at the tank I saw this brown floating wings stuff right above the flapper and thought it was part of the tank's guts (some where in the forum I thought I saw someone mentioned the floating wing stuff was to help the flapper from closing too soon?!). Since the tank won't hold water I had to keep opening it up to check, and then finally the brown floating stuff sort of had a small rip, and one part of the wing was caught under the flapper. When I took it out (it wasn't attached to anything) I realized it was just cardboard, and I think the plumber didn't take it out when they installed the toilet. Strange. What kind of inexperienced plumber were they? I hope that that was the problem, and the tank hadn't leak since.



Cardboard left in the tank. I've heard that a few times now.
Next time I will remember to suggest that too. Who would have that of that?
Terry

[Reader Review]

Hi Terry,

Thanks for installing toilets at my house on August 19. I'm very pleased with the product, installation and service

Nel L
Shoreline WA

[birdman325]

I am in the process of building a house, and about a year ago, when I thought I was going to be ready to order toilets, it seemed that the Toto Gwynneth (sp?) with sanigloss was the way to go for a good flush one piece high end toilet.
It is now about a year later and after lots of delays, I really am almost ready to order toilets. Has the landscape changed? I recall reading something about some problems with the Toto Ultramax but I confess I have lost sight of the names and what may be new out there.
Any thoughts? (I am in Canada, so not sure if the product line names are different here).
TIA (thanx in advance)

[Terry]

The Drake and the Ultramax are my biggest sellers.
The Drake II and the Ultramax II have the higher bowl, Sanagloss and cyclone rinse. They are a notch better.
They have been a near perfect toilet for me.
What was the question?

[Optiker]

I'm looking at an Ultramax II. I've seen Gwyneth and Ultramax II under the same manufacturer's number (TOTO MS604114CEFG). Are they the same toilet?

Thanks!
Optiker

[Terry]

The MS604114CEFG and the MS604164CEFG are the same toilet. It first came out as the Gwyneth one-piece and is now called the Utlramax II.
I've been selling quite a few of them.

[CurtisP]

Terry, which would you buy, the Ultramax with g-max or the Ultramax II with Double cyclone. I need to replace 4 toilets and have been reading like crazy, I know it will be one of the Toto Ultramax's, just not to sure which model, but will also be getting sanagloss finish.
Thanks

[Terry]

I think the Ultramax II with Sanagloss is the better value.
If you don't like a taller bowl, then getting the standard height Ultramax with SG would make sense too.

[GeronimoDF]

Finished another bathroom and need a toilet. Is the toto ultramax II (http://www.totousa.com/ProductDetail/tabid/75/Default.aspx?ProductId=2373aea2-1b66-4eff-9515-fef4ea584744&SearchId=61048ac2-e295-462e-86bf-745787c8009c)still the best out there? My place says Toto discontinued them. Is it under another name? Gwyneth?

Thanks

[Terry]

The Ultramax II, otherwise called Gwyneth, is a very good choice. I have one in my main bath, and have been selling a lot of them. Many of those are repeat sales.
You can see them listed on the TOTO web site here

Toto Ultramax II (http://www.totousa.com/ProductDetail/tabid/75/Default.aspx?ProductId=2373aea2-1b66-4eff-9515-fef4ea584744&SearchId=61048ac2-e295-462e-86bf-745787c8009c)

[CurtisP]

Just installed to Ultramax II and love them

[CurtisP]

Have been really impressed with the two ultramax II that I just replaced the last two water hogs, so I have 4 of them now in the house. The up keep on them are so easy with that sanagloss finiosh

[Jeff309]

After reading up on various different brands of toilets, i've decided to purchase the TOTO UltraMax II. I was really leaning towards the KOHLER Santa Rosa, primarily for its 1pc looks & appeal. However, after reading the reviews from multiple sites, I had 2nd thoughts. I'd honestly NEVER even heard of TOTO before several days ago! But after finding this site, & a few others, i'm feeling VERY confident with my decision to go with their product. I am REALLY hoping that all the "HYPE" is warranted, as i'm totally fed-up with having to use that damn plunger on my existing toilet regularly!
I'll buy & install it on Saturday, so i'll let you know the results shortly thereafter........

PS; Many thanks for this forum and to you Terry as I found the info on here extremely helpful. Keep up the GREAT work!!:D

[SteveW]

You will be very happy with that choice. Like you, I hadn't heard of Toto before I found this site. Sometimes when you read all the positive reviews of Toto here, it does seem like "hype" but once you own one, you realize that people are just being realistic. They are engineered and made better.

[royerm]

After reading up on various different brands of toilets, i've decided to purchase the TOTO UltraMax II. I was really leaning towards the KOHLER Santa Rosa, primarily for its 1pc looks & appeal. However, after reading the reviews from multiple sites, I had 2nd thoughts. I'd honestly NEVER even heard of TOTO before several days ago! But after finding this site, & a few others, i'm feeling VERY confident with my decision to go with their product. I am REALLY hoping that all the "HYPE" is warranted, as i'm totally fed-up with having to use that damn plunger on my existing toilet regularly!
I'll buy & install it on Saturday, so i'll let you know the results shortly thereafter........

PS; Many thanks for this forum and to you Terry as I found the info on here extremely helpful. Keep up the GREAT work!!:D

Same here, had never heard of but now more confident than ever after doing the reading.
May I ask where you found them in Canada????

Thx

[Jeff309]

Hey royerm,

I was able to find several places in my area (GTA) that carry the TOTO brand. Surprisingly enough tho, it is mostly smaller plumbing supply, & bathroom gallery places that had them. I found NO larger franchise type stores (RONA, HOME DEPOT, LOWES etc...) that carried them?! I ended up buying mine from a place in Mississauga, Ont called "Bathroom & Kitchen Gallerires." There were a couple of places right here in Brampton that also carried them, but I chose to go there due to a cheaper price. I found it a few hundred bucks cheaper so its worth shopping around. Not sure where they can be found in Quebec, but i'd suggest you check with some of the smaller plumbing/gallery outfits & go from there?
Hope this helps?

PS: After only a few days, I can tell you that i'm now POSITIVE that i've made a great choice going with the TOTO UltraMax II. Awesome flushing strength, easy install, & a GREAT looking toilet! I HIGHLY recommend it!!

[Jeff309]

As promised, i'm writing to give an update on my new UltraMax II. After buying, & installing it on Sat I can safely say that i'm quite positive that i've made a great choice in opting for the TOTO! The installation was a breeze, & the toilets look & performance is nothing short of OUTSTANDING!! The flushing strength is exceptional & I can already tell that the plunger can be permanently returned to the storage! (LOL) It has not only the strongest, but also the fastest flush i've ever seen. The double cyclone action is superb and its easy to see how this flushing technology is truly a step ahead in toilet flush performance!
I still need to replace the toilet in my other bathroom, & I wanted to see how this one was going to perform for a few mths before investing into another one. However, I can already tell that the UltraMax II was a GREAT choice, & i'm 100% sure that i'll be back in the very near future to buy another to replace the WaterHog in the other bathroom.

Once again, I wanted to thank Terry, & everyone else that contributes to this site. I'm SO happy that I found this site, & didn't run out & buy the Kohler I was looking at originally. To anyone thats still not sure about this TOTO product......I can assure you, that this guy is EXTREMELY happy with the UltraMax II, & I'd HIGHLY recommend it to anyone thats considering a new toilet!!

[dbett]

So I have three of these (model MS604114CEFG) on order and am wondering if my current through the floor water supply lines are going to work. I know one will need to be moved, but that bathroom has easy access from below. The other two supply lines are in the upstairs bathrooms with tile and will be more tricky to move. One is about 5" off center and the other 5 1/2".

Should I just plan on rerouting now?

[royerm]

Hey royerm,

I was able to find several places in my area (GTA) that carry the TOTO brand. Surprisingly enough tho, it is mostly smaller plumbing supply, & bathroom gallery places that had them. I found NO larger franchise type stores (RONA, HOME DEPOT, LOWES etc...) that carried them?! I ended up buying mine from a place in Mississauga, Ont called "Bathroom & Kitchen Gallerires." There were a couple of places right here in Brampton that also carried them, but I chose to go there due to a cheaper price. I found it a few hundred bucks cheaper so its worth shopping around. Not sure where they can be found in Quebec, but i'd suggest you check with some of the smaller plumbing/gallery outfits & go from there?
Hope this helps?

PS: After only a few days, I can tell you that i'm now POSITIVE that i've made a great choice going with the TOTO UltraMax II. Awesome flushing strength, easy install, & a GREAT looking toilet! I HIGHLY recommend it!!

I ended up ordering online(2), got here in a week and both installed. Truck delivered(LTL) and they were
pack so well. IT IS NOT A HYPE, they work like a charm and are real.
this site was so helpfull....Thx

[dbett]

So I have three of these (model MS604114CEFG) on order and am wondering if my current through the floor water supply lines are going to work. I know one will need to be moved, but that bathroom has easy access from below. The other two supply lines are in the upstairs bathrooms with tile and will be more tricky to move. One is about 5" off center and the other 5 1/2".

Should I just plan on rerouting now?


Since I posted this over the holiday weekend...a bump to see if anyone knows. The feed lines are about 3-4" out from the wall. Thanks for any info.

[Terry]

One is about 5" off center and the other 5 1/2".




That should work in your case.

[dbett]

That should work in your case.

Great. Thanks for the response - and the incredibly useful site.

[rdonchez]

In real world use, would you notice the difference between the 500 map performance of the Ultramax II and the 800 map performance of the Drake II?

[Terry]

Watersense requires a 350 gram rating. It's doubtfull that you would notice a difference.
I've been selling plenty of both.

We've always felt that 500 was very good. It's nice to have bowl rinse too.

[rdonchez]

Is there a difference in the total distance in the wall between the Ultramax II and Drake II (i.e. how far the toilet sticks out?). Also, how real are leaking problems with two piece tanks - enough to go one piece or is it not a real concern? Thanks again for all the help.

[Terry]

The total distance front to back is similar.

Of course there is less that can go wrong with the one-piece design, but the two piece mounting has been fine too.
I do like being able to pull a bowl from the box and just stick it on the wax though. That's pretty nice. No worry about cleaning between the two parts either.

[dbett]

So three down and one to go...I've saved the one I need to re-pipe the supply line. The first one in the basement was a Toto "Ultimate." It's serviceable, but I'm glad I changed the remaining three to the Ultramax II.

I think the installs went pretty well - although not a single mounting flange was the proper height. Two were too low (double wax rings) and the basement one was too high.

These are the two upstairs Ultramax II's:

(1) Master. This one had the supply line about 5" off center. The cover piece just touches the toilet.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-F19t0rCkyCg/TfKFUjIhiCI/AAAAAAAAJik/nFts2PujSqU/s720/P1000370.JPG

(2) Hall. This one was about 5 1/2" off center.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Z5DLQtRhf9U/TfKFVHBe3pI/AAAAAAAAJis/7AbQ-kCYay8/s720/P1000368.JPG

[lkstaack]

I think the Ultramax II with Sanagloss is the better value.
If you don't like a taller bowl, then getting the standard height Ultramax with SG would make sense too.

Would the Ultramax II be a good choice for my petite wife? She is about 5' tall. Does the shorter Ultramax I flush as well? What is the difference between elongated bowls and round ones?

[jadnashua]

Any male in the house will much prefer an elongated toilet! Essentially all commercial toilets are elongated for that reason. Round is just that, a much more rounder toilet - elongated is more egg shaped, with the narrower portion to the front.Height wise, a normal dining room chair is in the order of 18-19" high at the seat, a toilet, even an ADA height one, is in the same range (often the lower end, though). So, the best thing is to sit on a chair of the same height as the toilet of interest (if you can't find one to try), and then picture yourself doing your business. Most people like the taller seat height, but there are exceptions. It gets to be more of a factor as you get older and your knees and back don't like trying to get up from those low to the ground.

[chickenwarrior]

Hello,
I have read posts on Terry's sites for years, but the time has finally come to purchase a new toilet and I had a couple of questions. I have read every post and review on every toilet I am interested in and have narrowed it down to the Drake II or Ultramax II. I like the one piece Ultramax II design the best. The question I have is about the mounting of the Ultramax II. (I'll ask my Drake II question on that thread.) I have a standard 12" flange from the wall. I know the Drake II only comes in a standard 12" rough, but the Ultramax II is adjustable. The picture I saw of the adjustable mounting plate showed 2 more bolts into the tile behind the flange to hold it in place. I also have a tile bathroom and am not looking to drill additional holes in the tile if it can be avoided. I too am looking for a simple POP AND DROP installation. Is this possible with the Ultramax II with a 12" rough or will have drill the additional holes for mounting? If so what would be the correct part number for that model with C2 and SG in colonial white? Also I added my tile during a bathroom remodel so it raised the height of the floor 1/2" above the flange. Must I use a double wax ring (which I am using now) or will a standard ring work? I just don't want to have excess wax that could get into the pipe and affect flushing if it is not needed.

[Terry]

The Ultramax II works on a standard 12" rough and is a standard installation. If you are thinking "Unifit adapter" then you're thinking of a Carlyle with the skirted bowl. The Ultramax II uses the standard watercloset flange in the floor, standard closet bolts and wax. You can pull it out of the box and stick it on the wax. If your flange is lower then the finished floor, you will need to stack two wax rings.



The MS604114CEFG Ultramax II is listed this way
C = Cyclone flush (Double Cyclone)
E = 1.28 gallons per flush
F = Universal Height bowl
G = Sanagloss

[chickenwarrior]

The Ultramax II works on a standard 12" rough and is a standard installation. If you are thinking "Unifit adapter" then you're thinking of a Carlyle with the skirted bowl. The Ultramax II uses the standard watercloset flange in the floor, standard closet bolts and wax. You can pull it out of the box and stick it on the wax. If your flange is lower then the finished floor, you will need to stack two wax rings.



The MS604114CEFG Ultramax II is listed this way
C = Cyclone flush (Double Cyclone)
E = 1.28 gallons per flush
F = Universal Height bowl
G = Sanagloss

Thank you Terry!

[Michelangelo]

What is the minimum rough in that is needed for the Ultramax II.

It doesn't look like I'll have the 12" that the specs call for.

[jadnashua]

The spec sheet http://totousa.com/Portals/0/ProductDownloads/SS-00162,%20MS604114CEF_G,%20V.05.pdf says that there's nominally 3/4" behind with a true 12" rough-in. You can often fudge the toilet's position on the flange about 1/4" or so as the outlet horn is smaller than the opening in the flange, and there's some slop in the holes in the toilet mount, so 11" would be pushing it.

[teldeman]

I am looking at MS604114CEFG

Is this the standard height or the higher?

Is this the elongated toilet or not

[Terry]

This is an elongated bowl,
It's higher then standard height. Sometimes called Universal, Comfort or chair height.
With the seat, it also meets ADA requirements.

http://www.terrylove.com/wc/toto/ms604_spec_sheet.jpg

[Rockstead]

Hi,

Can anyone tell me how will I know if the bolt holes from the toilets i currently have and the size from the back of my current two piece toilet to the wall will work with the Ultramax II?

I am desparate to swap out my 3 builder grade toilets but I am worried about holes not lining up and possibly having to replace some ceramic in all three bathrooms if the bolts don't align and the back of he 1 piece Ultramax II won't meet up with the back of the wall.

Hopefully everything has to meet standard size and this wil be a straight swap.