Worried about overheated joints

I will probably have more than one question in the next few days, so sorry for the multiple posts... but this forum is a great source of info!

The reason I started working on my plumbing project (installing a shower) on my own is that, after watching a "helpful" friend try to sweat a few joints, it was apparent that he didn't know what he was doing(you get what you pay for, I guess) so I took over after doing some research. Now, before I seal up the wall, I am concerned about the joints that he worked on.

He sweated two joints, and it took him about 12 hours to do so(not an exaggeration. It may have been more like 16 hours). As I watched him sweat the second joint, it was really obvious even to me that he was SERIOUSLY overheating the joint. He must have had flame on it for over five minutes. The solder would just flow out and go everywhere instead of staying in the joint. So when he finally got both joints sweated with no leaks, he applied something called JB weld over the joints to ensure they wouldn't leak. They haven't leaked at all so far, but I'm worried about the pipes after all that overheating. I'm also worried about the shutoff valves that were attached to the adapters while he was trying to sweat them. It seems that all that heat must have damaged them, though they seem to be working fine.

Should I disassemble those joints and do them properly, or are they probably OK if they're not leaking after a few days?

Thanks for your help!

I too would question the integrity of those joints. It certainly sounds like they were badly overheated and the application of JB Weld over them well that just states his confidence of the joint. If they are not visibly leaking when you first apply water pressure I would truly be surprised. They will almost certainly start leaking at some point and the potential for severe water damage to occur is very high considering they will be in a concealed space and if the leak is a slow one there will be alot of damage before you see visible signs of leakage.

I was going to post earlier in your other thread that this is not the easiest job for a "Newbie DIYer" to cut their teeth on as you have now found out. I would suggest maybe calling in a pro to cut all this out and redo everything. Maybe the place for you to cut teeth is more like a job in an open location with a horizontal run where sweating is required or, getting a bunch of fittings and pipe and practicing a lot before trying this.

To sweat a joint you have to clean the pipes and fittings with plumbers cloth or, a wire brush in the area where the sweat joint will be made. You then have to flux this area and place it together with the tube all the way into the socket and held in a maner that it will not fall apart or slip while you are sweating the joint.

The next thing to do is to heat the joint with the torch. Put the tip of the inner blue flame where it contacts the joint and pipe move the flame around the joint and concentrate the heating on the socket portion of the joint. Keep the flame moving and I usually position the torch in a manner where the flame wraps around the joint to some degree for quicker heating. With valves and such this quicker heating is essential to avoiding damage to the internal parts and not burning out the flux.

As the joint becomes hotter approaching the proper temperature I then on the side away from the torch flame touch the solder to the joint. When the solder melts and starts to flow into the joint it is time. I then apply solder all the way around the joint keeping the flame away from the point where the solder is being applied. As for solder usage the amount of solder applied is approx 1/2" for a 1/2" tube and 3/4" for a 3/4" tube. This is not something where you measure the solder and use that amount but kind of like a guideline. You do not want to put 3" of solder into a 1/2" joint! On a horizontal joint I typically allow 1 drop of solder to form then knock it off with the solder and wipe the joint. Brass fittings like your valve will take a lot more heat to become hot enough for sweating. Concentrate the heat more on the brass than the pipe.

Then remove the flame from the joint and and wipe it clean allow to to cool without moving it. Typically there are several sides to a joint like on an elbow or tee. I would do all the joints on the fitting one after another then wipe the joints. I would not do one side of a fitting allow it to cool then go to the other side of the fitting. Inspect each joint afterwards to verify that the solder has flowed all the way around the socket.

As I said I would strongly recommend a pro, but, hope the advice above can turn you into a competent solderer.

If they are not visibly leaking when you first apply water pressure I would truly be surprised.

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I've already charged the system and they don't leak - it's been a few days as well. I figure if they don't leak by now they'll probably be all right, but it does worry me that they were so overheated. I do have an access to the area, so I might just cut off those two joints and redo them myself since I don't trust them. That might just be overcautious but who knows. Those particular joints are the most important because they join the water pipes to the shutoff valves - of course!

As far as a pro goes...I've had "pros" cost me too much money both in ridiculous fees and in shoddy work. Now I'm a firm believer in the "learn to do it yourself" way of thinking. Which is why I'm on a DIY forum! I'm a capable person and if others can do it, I can do it.

Incidentally, the joints I soldered myself didn't leak at all even the first time I charged the system. I'm pretty satisfied with how they turned out. It went so well that I was really annoyed at how bad a job my "helper" did on those first two joints.

joints

Overheating the joint, and from your description it was seriously overheated, would burn the flux and not only not let the solder flow into the joint, but actually repel it. If he got any solder into the joint it is probably right at the surface and any movement will cause it to fail, unless the JB Weld keeps it together. If the joint takes more than 30 seconds to do, it is probably not done right.

I figured. It was pretty appalling to watch. And you're right, it only took about 30 seconds to do each of the joints I soldered myself.

I'll take apart those overheated joints and redo them just because I'll always worry about it if I don't.