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nilesh1540
07-02-2008, 10:28 PM
i had a handyman do some repair work on my house tub and I did not see him use any abs glue on the new fittings. he indicated to me that the system is not under pressure and that the fittings snugly fit into each other. i am not a plumber and i didn't know who would know this. any help. please.

hj
07-03-2008, 06:39 AM
Your fourth word, "handyman", tells the story. It MAY not leak because it is under minimal pressure, but it can also fall off if something displaces it. One of Murphy's Laws says that if a homeowner or handyman takes a shortcut it will not leak immediately, but if a professional plumber tried to do the same thing, it would start leaking before he could get his head out of the cabinet.

patrick88
07-03-2008, 11:18 AM
What type of fittings are they. If they are glue fittings they will leek. If they are slip nut and gasket fittings you will be ok. Taking a pic of the area in question will help.

nilesh1540
07-03-2008, 11:57 AM
thanks hj.

they are abs 1.5 inch piping.

the strainer (where the water goes down the drain) is called the waste and the the other part is called the overflow. that's why its called waste and overflow kit.

the waste is connected to a piece of pipe about 8-10- inches where it connects into a slightly turned T Union going down.

the part from the overflow also connects into this T and that water would go straight down.

because it is not under pressure it is probably not going to leak but my concern is that some drops of water may come out when it is being used. and if that happens is that a big concern. i'm thinking that those drops are eventually gonna dry out also.

i'm not sure.

the last thing i wanna do is tear everything back out.

is there anything like something you can pour down the drain so that anything where it can leak would get sealed with clogging the drains.

let me know what you know thanks.

Redwood
07-03-2008, 06:10 PM
It may or, may not require gluing. Can you post a picture?

:eek:Handyman Plumbing?:eek:

hj
07-03-2008, 07:00 PM
If it is the tub's waste and overflow then it WILL BE under pressure while the tub is draining and it WILL LEAK then.

Plumber Jim
07-04-2008, 10:09 AM
No offense, If it was standard glue abs fittings not slip joints then that handyman needs a good pipe over the head. tell that hanyman hack that he needs to leave the plumbing to plumbers. I know that not all handymen are that stupid but if that was glue type fittings and he didn'y glue them then he is a complete moron.

Gary Swart
07-04-2008, 11:31 AM
I agree with Plumber Jim. ABS, PVC, or copper joints have to be properly connected. Plastic is solvent welded, copper is soldered. Granted that a drain line is not subjected to high pressure, but if the joints are not sealed, they will leak and they can come apart. The water may not spray all over as they would in a pressurized situation, but a little leak is like a little PG except it won't go away in 9 months.:D A beginner might think that as tight as plastic fittings and pipe go together dry, they would not leak, but that just isn't true. It's guys like your handyman that make code inspectors really necessary.

Redwood
07-04-2008, 08:27 PM
If this is what he installed it would go in without being glued.
I would not install this type but a handyman I'm sure would!

http://www.watts.com/prod_images/hi-res/3934333.jpg

Anything after the part pictured above should be glued.

The waste and overflow pictured below is what I would use.

http://www.pexsupply.com/img/categoryImages/Gerber-41-818-Bath-Drain.gif

leejosepho
07-05-2008, 06:58 AM
I did not see him use any abs glue ...
he indicated to me that the system is not under pressure and that the fittings snugly fit into each other.


No offense, If it was standard glue abs fittings not slip joints then that handyman needs a good pipe over the head. tell that hanyman hack that he needs to leave the plumbing to plumbers. I know that not all handymen are that stupid but if that was glue type fittings and he didn'y glue them then he is a complete moron.


Moron (Merriam-Webster Online)
1 (usually offensive): a mildly mentally retarded person
2: a very stupid person

The handyman in question is neither stupid nor moronic. Such a person would be incapable of even considering the matter of possible leaking, and a pipe (either a good one or a bad one) over the head would not resolve that kind of problem.

Slip-joint assemblies do not need glue (cement) to prevent leaking, but other parts almost always do.

Because of the tight fit and the actual orientation of the parts, I have a toilet flange glued (cemented) to a piece of pipe that is merely slipped into a coupling cast into a concrete floor. Unless my entire septic system backs up to ground level, there is no possibility for leaking. But if I ever need to replace that flange, the job will be a very simple one.

hj
07-05-2008, 03:45 PM
Because of the tight fit and the actual orientation of the parts, I have a toilet flange glued (cemented) to a piece of pipe that is merely slipped into a coupling cast into a concrete floor.

That may also qualify as a handyman fix. If done correctly and the right part used it should not need to be removed some time in the future.

leejosepho
07-05-2008, 05:40 PM
That may also qualify as a handyman fix.

It was not a fix at all. It was a new installation in the new floor of my new workshop.


If done correctly and the right part used it should not need to be removed some time in the future.

The job was done correctly, the right parts were used and there was simply no need to glue the bottom end of the vertical pipe going into the hub below ... and now a repair will be easy if anybody ever breaks the plastic flange.

Redwood
07-05-2008, 09:10 PM
Thats just it! A plastic flange is not the right part!
A plastic flange with a stainless steel ring would have been the right part!

leejosepho
07-06-2008, 05:18 AM
Thats just it! A plastic flange is not the right part!

Okay, if you insist. I have never liked plastic flanges anyway ... but neither have I ever seen a flange with a stainless ring ... so at least that leaves some of us DIYers and handymen just a bit ignorant rather than actually stupid or moronic, eh?!

Redwood
07-06-2008, 11:31 AM
Okay, if you insist. I have never liked plastic flanges anyway ... but neither have I ever seen a flange with a stainless ring ... so at least that leaves some of us DIYers and handymen just a bit ignorant rather than actually stupid or moronic, eh?!

Lowes has them!
http://www.oatey.com/Plumber/Shared/ProductGroupDetail/716/Closet+Flanges+with+Stainless+Steel+Rings.html
http://www.oatey.com/Plumber/Shared/ProductGroupDetail/717/Easy+Tap+TM+Closet+Flange.html

hj
07-06-2008, 01:52 PM
The job was done correctly, the right parts were used and there was simply no need to glue the bottom end of the vertical pipe going into the hub below ... and now a repair will be easy if anybody ever breaks the plastic

Using that logic, there would never be any reason to glue the top joints of ANY fittings because the water would never create any pressure on them. In this area, YOUR joint WOULD have to have been in place during the water pressure test, and it WOULD have leaked and WOULD have been rejected. Anyone who uses a plastic flange is setting themselves up for a future repair, but that is not justification for making an improper connection, and if it was not cemented it was NOT done correctly, and it was a handyman job.

leejosepho
07-06-2008, 06:39 PM
Using that logic, there would never be any reason to glue the top joints of ANY fittings ...

That might seem like a logical conclusion in your mind, but not in mine. The fitting in question here is in the ground and outside the foundation of the house. Even though I know it cannot possibly ever leak a drop unless my entire septic system backs up to ground level, I would never have left that joint dry anywhere else.


Anyone who uses a plastic flange is setting themselves up for a future repair ...

There are some related things to consider here. The toilet that sits on that flange has a porcelain bowl on a plastic base, and now the plastic flange is the easy-to-repair "weak link" in that particular installation. If something gets broken, the flange will be first and the toilet will thus be protected.


... if it was not cemented it was NOT done correctly, and it was a handyman job.

Fortunately, and especially since I have no license to lose, I can employ a little practicality and even a bit of figure-it-out common sense at will!

hj
07-07-2008, 07:14 AM
1. If it is installed properly the toilet does not contact the flange so it will not break it.
2. With the right flange there is no reason to EVER have to redo it.
3. If the connection is "outside" the foundation, then that must mean the toilet is outside the building.
4. Every handyman who ever picked up a tool feels that his "shortcuts" are really practical solutions. And most of them do not have licenses that they can lose either.

leejosepho
07-07-2008, 07:46 PM
1. If it is installed properly the toilet does not contact the flange so it will not break it.

If a toilet gets bumped hard or pushed over or whatever, it would not have to be in contact with the flange in order for the bolts to break either the flange or the base of the toilet ... and I would rather have the flange break than the toilet.


2. With the right flange there is no reason to EVER have to redo it.

Sure ... but in this case, a steel flange could not help to protect the toilet from situational damage.


3. If the connection is "outside" the foundation, then that must mean the toilet is outside the building.

The toilet is in my new workshop that is outside the foundation of the house.


4. Every handyman who ever picked up a tool feels that his "shortcuts" are really practical solutions. And most of them do not have licenses that they can lose either.

You bet!

Redwood
07-07-2008, 08:24 PM
Lee, Its a hack job plain and simple and there is nothing that can justify it!

So why not just call it a day?

leejosepho
07-08-2008, 03:11 AM
Lee, Its a hack job plain and simple and there is nothing that can justify it!

Using a plastic flange is a hack job?

Jump back, jack.

hj
07-08-2008, 06:58 AM
If a toilet gets bumped hard or pushed over or whatever, it would not have to be in contact with the flange in order for the bolts to break either the flange or the base of the toilet ... and I would rather have the flange break than the toilet.

That is an interesting excuse for doing a halfway job. IF the toilet were pushed hard enough to break it, (try doing it sometime and you will find you will break your foot long before you break the toilet), the flange would still not break first especially if it were screwed to the floor the way it should be. Maybe you should saw 3/4 of the way through the bolts to create a shear point which will break first under stress.

Redwood
07-08-2008, 10:57 PM
Using a plastic flange is a hack job?

Jump back, jack.

No Lee, Not gluing a connection is a hack job!:rolleyes:

But, Now that you mention it "I" do not use all plastic flanges as I consider them to be of lesser quality.:cool:

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2/Redwood39/14vsh2q_thFeelinFroggytp19.gif:eek:
As I said... Call it a day!

leejosepho
07-09-2008, 05:22 PM
First, and in relation to the OP ...

I apologize for ever mentioning the idea of leaving a connection unglued: I like to encourage people to think outside the box even if only for just long enough to decide to go right back inside it.

As to the two since-developed issues in this ridiculous banter that has been going on:

1) If plastic flanges indicate hack jobs, then many professional plumbers are mere hacks ... and we all know that is simply not the case. Personally, and as a DIYer who had a residential contractor's license 35 years ago in his 20s, I began using plastic flanges after I long ago grew tired of repairing rusted steel flanges, and I just learned about stainless flanges right here a few days ago. So then, you can rightly say I ignorantly used a plastic flange while not knowing about stainless ones, but you cannot rightly call me a hack for choosing plastic over plain steel.

2) Having left an impossible-to-leak connection unglued might now seem providential since it would hence be a breeze to replace my plastic flange with a stainless one! However, here is the reason I am not going to do that:

The toilet in question has a porcelain bowl on a plastic base (with about a 4" opening) that could be easily broken by overtightened bolts when the factory-provided foam gasket (no wax ring) eventually needs replacement (as I already know it will unless I "hack" two wax rings to make one large one and do away with the foam gasket altogether as I have already done in the back of my old bus). But: Not having any idea who in the future might find himself or herself in whichever way repairing the seal at the bottom of that expensive, special-application toilet, breaking a plastic flange is far preferable to breaking the base of that toilet, and leaving a non-glued joint today will eventually save somebody an awful lot of work and the expense of a new toilet if the bolts ever actually do get overtightened. Understand? In simpleer words: Keep calling me a hack and I will continue trying to help you out of your ignorance just like you have done for me concerning flanges.

As a final thought:

What would a professional plumber say to me if I called and asked about having a frost-free toilet installed in my new workshop?

Basement_Lurker
07-09-2008, 08:56 PM
hmm...now I have seen everything ... people arguing over a "shit-hole" !!!

Play nice people!

Redwood
07-09-2008, 11:05 PM
Lee, I never said an all plastic flange was a hack job, But we have repeatedly said not gluing a connection was not thinking outside of the box it was hacking!http://www.rif.org/

Here is your frostproof toilet!

http://images.shipstore.com/ss/images/cac/cac30767.jpg

leejosepho
07-10-2008, 03:37 AM
Here is your frostproof toilet!

My question is about what a professional plumber would say if I called and asked about having a frost-free toilet installed in my workshop -- a toilet that could be used year-round and even in freezing weather. I am not asking about winterizing, but about frost-free usage.

jadnashua
07-10-2008, 05:47 AM
Maybe one of those that incinerates the wastes? In a 'normal' one, the water both coming to it and in the bowl/tank could quickly freeze and ruin the toilet or start spewing water from the broken supply all over.

hj
07-10-2008, 07:16 AM
One way to get a frost free toilet, if you could figure out how to keep the water supply from freezing would be to install a "P" trap below the frost level and then use an RV "kick starter" toilet above it. But I would still glue the joints.

leejosepho
07-11-2008, 03:24 AM
Maybe one of those that incinerates the wastes?

I had forgotten about those, but yes, they are definitely frost-free! My dad installed a few of those in RVs many years ago, but they are expensive to operate and the aroma of baking cookies is far preferable ...

leejosepho
07-11-2008, 03:30 AM
One way to get a frost free toilet, if you could figure out how to keep the water supply from freezing would be to install a "P" trap below the frost level and then use an RV "kick starter" toilet above it.

I had never thought about lowering a trap, but that would not have worked in this situation since the outlet would have been too low to properly drain into the septic system. I had thought about an insulated and heated stall so I could use a regular toilet, but then there would have been one more thing to take care of when an ice storm knocks the power out in the middle of winter.

Plumber Jim
07-13-2008, 10:36 AM
Heat the workshop. Sounds like that would be more comfortable to work in anyways.