New pump and tank now loss of pressure

new pump and tank now loss of pressure With PICTURES!

Hello,
I have a deep well that was installed when the house was built in 1970. It used to supply the home but is now used for outdoor stuff only. I had a 20 gal tank with the ORIGINAL one quarter horse power pump. The old pump did just fine, running around 45 PSI, and maintained it with no problems. Unfortunately the tank sprung a leak and instead of repairing it I just replaced it with a Water Ace one half horsepower attached 7 gallon diaphragm pressure tank unit, R520C.

I know its not the greatest quality but the old pump was literally older than I was, regardless without research its what I happened to replace it with. The pump will build about 38PSI but quickly lose pressure to less than 20 after its been running for just a f2 or 3 minutes. With pausing water usage it will rebuild pressure (the last few PSI always take the longest) which is why its just enough to wash the car but I cant even run a single domestic sprinkler head off of it.

When I called water ace the tech asked me if I changed the nozzles in the well, I did not. She said I will not get the right pressure until I change the nozzle in the well to the one they supplied.

The well is about 6 feet from the pump.

My next step is to call professional well repair. What do you guys make of this situation?

thank you for your time,
Kevin

Kevin_NJ said:

When I called water ace the tech asked me if I changed the nozzles in the well, I did not. She said I will not get the right pressure until I change the nozzle in the well to the one they supplied.

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I do not know what that is about, but I can imagine the new pump is trying to draw more water than the well can presently give it. I would get some Nu-Well tablets and condition the well to make more water available at the screen.

If the nozzle does not match the pump, or if you do not have the regulator on the pump adjusted correctly, the pump will not build the pressure it should. I don't have much faith in the Water Ace Tech but, they may be right. If not then leejosepho is right about the well not making enough water. I am guessing the nozzle is not right or the pump is too small.

PS; A pump man is not going to be happy that you already bought a Water Ace.

The 1/4hp pump you threw out is probably twice the Pump the Water Ace is. That's probably why the Nozzle is too big. Changing it will give you more pressure but not anymore water, it will actually give you less with a smaller Nozzle.

You may also find out that this is a screened well and there is a Bremer Check on top of the Screen preventing you from using Nu-Well Tabs. Your local driller will know what kind of well you have and what needs to be done to get it working better. Then you can buy a good Jet Pump that will give you the water and pressure you need.

bob...

Thanks guys for all your input. I called a professional driller that just did my sisters house. The guy said for ME to locate the well head to get him off to a better start, so far ive dug up about 5 feet from my house, 4 feet deep and two feet wide! so i'll keep at the digging, he told me to fish a snake into one of the tubes, mark off where it hits the well head then measure out from the foundation, that will prevent me from digging to china, and better locate just the head itself. Once i get the well head he said they make pumps that can be dropped into the well itself that would be more suitable for my application.

so tomorrow hopefully i'll finish locating the top of the well itself then i will be able to call the well guy out here.

On i side note i complicated matters by rupturing one of the two PVC pipes that the pump uses near the foundation, when a good intentioned helper hit it with a steel rod. The water ace might have blown up when it was punctured. Water shot up from the garden for about 5 seconds, then stopped all together. I went into the basement felt the pump, it was warm, but not spinning, and the PSI was zero, so i may have killed the pump regardless. It was dumb luck, my neigbbor saw me out there measuring and guessing, he told me when he located his well, he used the rebarb and dropped it down, literally he pushed it into the soil, the very first time, completly guessing, to demonstrate to me, and he hit the friggin line. He meant well but its a huge set back for me.

its unfortunate that this happened, because now this has gone from a small project where id just like to get pressure back, to now having absolutely NO outdoor water. But isnt it how it always goes with a home, nothings ever simple.... (rollseyes)

thanks once again for the great help here, your input is very much appreciated.

There is an Instrument called the Schoenstadt Locater (sp?). It will find your well in a flash. You see Surveyors running around with one in their hand all the time. A Well Driller/Pump man should never leave home without one. If you can borrow one, you will save a lot of digging. I've had mine since 1976.

bob...

i found the well head using the snake method, it was a rough measurement, just holding the tape to the side of the well head it looked like 3 & 3/4", where the pipes make the 90 degree turn down, im guessing its a 4" well.

i will call the well guy back today and see if he can come next week to take a look at this.

now a few questions, this well used to be for drinking but its old, and not filtered anymore, really heavy iron deposits i see on the sprinklers and pump, looks like brown flakes and marks where ever the water runs, drips. The water doesnt smell, but tastes awful.

what do you think his recommendations may be when he comes out, are there things i should beware of?

im assuming hes going to want to install a new pump, and change the well heads, as well as repair the line that got ruptured.

what if he says the water is too brown? or the well is no good? is that possible? will he ask that i abandon the well and put in a new one?
can you re-drill an existing well? alternatives?

thanks guys for your help and time here, very helpful forum.

A 1/4-HP deep well jet is really tiny. Never saw one before. Would it pump even five gallons a minute?

after talking to the well guy he said its a 3" well, he'll look it this week and check it to see

- if he can recondition the well ?
- if its still serviceable, if not, it will need to be capped

- if the well can be reconditioned and (hes telling me its a steel pipe) hes going to do new check valve and use a 3" submersible pump.

he just did a well (yesterday) 3 streets down that was a 60' well (i think thats what mine is?) and he said 'static water' was at 30'.

maybe theres hope for this old well after all? i guess i'll know more in a few days.

what a cluster

thank you everyone for your input

You might not like the price of that 3" pump.

But it's much better than a jet system.

bob...

the run to the well is about 6 feet. I dont have an unlimited source of cash for this project, but im willing to 'make it right'.

what are the differences in operation and advantages of an in well pump verses the jet pump system? for my application do you think i can get away with a external jet pump system?

how much different in costs are they?

The cost difference wouldn't be a lot by the time you buy the Jet Pump, the Casing Adaptor and Jet compared to one 3" Submersible Pump. If this casing is old, it may already be rusted through in the vicinity of the Shallow Aquifer, so the Jet won't work anyway, that leaves the Sub.

I sell them both, but would stay with the Sub if it were mine. More water and pressure.

bob...

Hey guys the well guy was here today the results werent good.

He got the cap off the well, the pipes going into the well, one is steel the other is PVC. He could not get the steel pipe up out of the well, its stuck. he even hooked a pick up truck to it. The next option is to spend about 800 bucks to get a 'tower' set up over the well that SHOULD be able to remove the steel pipe up and out of the well along with the rest of the stuff that been down there for 40 years.

he said even if he could get the steel pipe, screen and other stuff out, theres no guarantee that the well will work or be serviceable again

so he said, its up to me, gamble the 800 bucks, if he can get the contents out of the well shaft, and MAYBE get the well to work, or just close the well, and start over with a new one for 3 grand.

I use the well ONLY for watering about 4000 sq feet of grass and washing my two vehicles during the good weather months.

what do you guys think?

i think with about 20 dollars of supplies i can hook my exterior hose spigots to the city water.

this sucks.... Thoughts suggestions ideas?

Figure how much water you use each year for irrigation. Then calculate how much that will cost to buy city water. That will give you an idea of how much the well is worth to you. The 800 bucks is a crap shoot, the 3 grand should have a guarantee.

Doesn't this Well Guy own a Pump Hoist? A tower over the Well? I'm not sure what he meant by that.

bob...

he called it a tripod actually but he said its pretty big. ive got nothing to lose here by giving this a go myself, im going to try a chain wrapped around the steel pipe and seeing if i can get it to budge with a come along or a floor jack.

im not sure i want to give up on this well just yet.

good news!

Well i gave it a go with my 3 ton hydraulic floor jack and a chain, once i got it to budge about 6" the rest came up very very easily, except for trying to wield it around with just one person.

At one point there must have been 30 feet of pipe over my head and i didnt want to let go as it would have all slid back down, it ended up falling over the top of the roof!

the last 10-15 feet were soaking wet. the screen LOOKED clean, some spots with sediment on it. the tip was gunked up. there was a spot at the joint between the casing, and the screen, about 5 inches of very thick build up that i was able to break off with a hammer.

the pipe measured 42 feet from the well head to the tip.

I called the guy to tell him i got it out, he was a bit surprised and said hed come out on saturday to blow compressed air into it to see if its able to be reconditioned, if it is, he said hed drop in a 3" submersible pump.

what do you guys make of these pictures? i cant tell anything at all from them but maybe by looking at these you can tell some things about the health of the well itself...

The screen seemed shiny and clean, some areas of sediment, the tip was really caked up.


this whole last section was wet, even above the point where i cut it off once i laid it down on the ground. The joint where the screen meets the casing was really gunked up.

check valve at the "Y" seemed okay. i was going to start hacking this stuff up to look at the innards before i dispose of it all.

the entire well assembly from top to bottom measured 42 feet.

until the well guy comes back on saturday i put a cap on the well to stop any dirt from getting back into the 3" hole.

Kevin_NJ said:

Well i gave it a go with my 3 ton hydraulic floor jack and a chain, once i got it to budge about 6" the rest came up very very easily, except for trying to wield it around with just one person.

At one point there must have been 30 feet of pipe over my head and i didnt want to let go as it would have all slid back down, it ended up falling over the top of the roof!

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Fine job all around!

I do not know how to analyze your pictures and needs, but the pros here can definitely talk you through installing whatever you need after the well has been cleaned.

That Stainless Steel Screen should not be at the end of the Jet. I have never seen anyone do that before. You simply need a Foot Valve on the bottom of the Jet.

The 3" Submersible Pumps might work quite well. Take a look at the link, you may want to try this yourself. Buy the Pump from me and all the other goodies. Save yourself some money.

bob...