Sweating simple valves

[Andrew21]

Hey all,
Just a quick question. I see that my plumber sweat on the water valves for my sink, I'd gather it's the same for my kitchen so I'm going to give it a shot. Here's a question though. My friend told me to take the valves apart because I might melt something in them? Would that be possible? I know there is rubber washer in the valve but I'm not going to heat up the valve too much, mostly the copper pipe. SHould I take it apart or no?

Thanks

[Basement_Lurker]

Copper tubing conducts heat....your valve will heat up as well....hence the reason why you will be able to solder it without direct heat on it....so yes, your valve should be disassembled before attempting to solder it.

Uhh...I would think very carefully about taking this on since you are a novice. Most guys simply use compression valves in situations like this. Soldering inside a cabinet can risk damaging the cabinet by heat or even setting it on fire...you will be working in a confined space! Also, heating up the tubing and trying to solder on a valve is risky if you are not experienced....you could overheat the section and actually desolder the fitting(s) inside the wall or even end up pulling the stub out of the fitting in the wall! Believe me...if you manage to do that, you will be pretty screwed.

[Andrew21]

I'll be soldering these before the cabinet goes in to make things easier. The hole will be bigger but whatever. I'm not using compression valves, I already got that base covered.

[hj]

I hope you have a lot of copper tubing sticking out, because when those valves fail you are probably going to have to cut them off and thus lose some length. If you are soldering them on by heating the tubing then you will have a leak because you don't know how to solder properly. You have to heat the valve and then let the valve heat the tubing.

[prashster]

I'd advise practicing. Soldering is daunting (albeit EXTREMELY rewarding) and if you don't have a lot of extra pipe to snip off, you might cost yrself some headaches.

Search this forum for soldering technique and you'll find more than you care to know.

Know a couple things:

1) Yr supposed to heat the fitting - not the tube. The idea is to create a hot region between the fitting and the pipe so solder liqufies, sucks into tiny gap via capilary action, then cools and seals completely. You can protect the valve components by (good: keeping the valve open so heat doesn't build around the components; better: placing a wet rag around the valve - taking care not to cover the region where the pipe extends into the valve - this will keep the valve components from melting; best: take the valve rubber parts OUT - That's not always possible.

2) Clean and flux properly. Solder won't stick to an oxidized surface.

3) Heat the fitting - not the solder. heating solder directly will just make it break off in pieces.

4) Practice. There's a feel you'll develop. Don't be scared of it though. Joints I did 4 years ago as a COMPLETE beginner (I'd still call myself a novice) work fine because I prepped and practiced properly.

[Ian Gills]

The best piece of advice I had from this forum regarded a pair of nipples.

I would solder some of these on (quality brass nipples, not the cheap copper males), and then use some teflon together with the valves that screw on.

Valves attached this way are a dream. And you don't have to take them apart.

[Andrew21]

The pipes coming out of the wall are about 6 inches long but one is about 4. You think I have enough room?

[Andrew21]

Here are some pics. Do I need to extend the pipes to come out more?

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r130/Ingman21/1Medium.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r130/Ingman21/2Medium.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r130/Ingman21/3Medium.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r130/Ingman21/4Medium.jpg

[SteveW]

Looks to me like you have plenty of length to solder valves on without getting too close to the wall.

[Andrew21]

Looks to me like you have plenty of length to solder valves on without getting too close to the wall.

ok i'll give it a shot and let you konw. Thanks!

[Terry]

Or, you could use compression shutoffs.
Then you don't need to solder.

[SteveW]

As Terry and others have said, you certainly could (and many pros would) go ahead and use compression fittings with no problems, no risk of fire, no risk of accidentally unsoldering the ell fitting in the wall, and easy replacement when they need it.

If you are set on using a soldered fitting, would suggest Ian's idea of soldering on a male adapter. Then your valves screw onto the adapters, and can be easily removed for replacement with no more soldering required. You can get high quality brass male adapters at a good plumbing supply house, or online.

Just remember to "hold back" on the adapter with a wrench when you go to screw on the valve.

[Andrew21]

Or, you could use compression shutoffs.
Then you don't need to solder.

How do I install compression shutoffs? I've seen them in the aisle but didn't know you don't have to solder them. Thanks Terry

A-

[Redwood]

Pretty easily actually...

Slide the nut over the pipe.
Put the ferrule on the pipe.
Put a dab of plumbers grease on the ferrule and the threads on the valve and snug it up.

Careful the #1 mistake people make with compression fittings is over tightening. If they are over tightened they will leak!

It is better to initially have it a little loose and have to tighten it more until the leak stops.

[Andrew21]

OK done sweating the valves. It was rather quick. Thank you all!

btw, I used youtube to watch some videos on how to sweat pipes. Thanks again!