how to connect an extender to the flange

[erich]

I just finished cement boarding and tiling my floor and I need to use an extender ring thing to be flush with the tile.

Do I just use some bolts, or do I need to use some sort of adhesive between the flange and the extender?

[Redwood]

If the flange is very clean silicone rtv can be used. Dirty I usually just smear some of the old wax around under it and screw it down.

[hj]

Extenders would be my least favorite way of accomplishing your task. A sealer between the flange and the extender to prevent leaking, AND screwing the extender so it cannot warp and separate from the flange.

[jadnashua]

I don't know why people wait until the floor is done to condsider what should be done with a toilet flange...it's supposed to be installed on TOP of the finished floor; that would put the thing around 1/4" or so above the finished floor, not flush.

[erich]

alright, thanks for the help...

iv'e never worked on a bathroom before at all, let a alone doing anything with a toilet, before I started the tiling job, and use the extender after I did the tiles, so I had no(right) way of doing it.

[erich]

how would i bring the flange up flush with or a little higher than the floor other than using an extender? is it possible to do without ripping the tiles up around the flange?

Thanks

[jadnashua]

At this point, probably your best bet is the extender. If you had planned ahead, you would have removed the existing flange, extended the pipe, tiled around it, then installed a new one. Various things can cause a toilet to leak...no, it should not happen, but occassionally does. If all goes well, yours never will. If the flange is on top of the floor, it is more likely that you'd see the results before it rots out the subfloor (can't tell if you are on a slab or wood). With the flange lower, you need a double or extra deep wax ring to make the seal, and if it does leak, you have a well there where it can accumulate. The thicker the wax ring, the more possibility you could have a blow out if you get too aggressive plunging it if it ever gets clogged. It also means the bolts are longer, which can allow the toilet to move a little (not much, but it may not take much to break the seal).

I'm not trying to scare you...millions of toilets never leak, but it can happen. In your case, now, I'd clean up the existing flange, put a good quantity of silicon there, and screw the extender down into the subflooring. I think the existing ring on that flange is painted aluminum, so it shouldn't rust.

[erich]

can i use anything other than silicone? like construction advesive or this ultra pro sealant?

[hj]

I talked with the plumber guy at HD before I started the tiling job, and he said to use the extender after I did the tiles,

He is not a "plumber guy", he is a "plumbing guy" and his only contact with plumbing is telling people how he thinks they should use the stuff he sells.

[erich]

think that sealant pro stuff would work?

[jadnashua]

I always take their advice with a grain of salt...note, what you did is fairly common; that doesn't make it right! Few things end up perfect.

I'm not familiar with that stuff. You want something that is waterproof and will not be affected by sewer gasses. I know silicon will work, not sure about that.

[jimbo]

It looks like on your flange, a minimum of 2 of those extenders would be appropriate. Silicone is good. Read the label on that Pro Sealant. If it does not contain solvents which are harmful to plastics, then it should be ok. Put some on the flange, and in between the stacked extenders.

Get some long bolts, and put a nut on the lock the extenders in place. Then set the wax ring, and the toilet.

[Redwood]

The height of the finished flange should be about 1/4" above the finished floor. Stack the extenders as needed. See my post above regarding sealing.

[erich]

cool... thanks jimbo! you're right, i put that one extender in and it's still about 1/4" too low... so just use 4 bolts and nuts to secure the two together and silicone them? will that hold up? should i use two wax rings?



So I went over to HD to get some silicone and thought i'd go talk with the plumING guy, those plumbing guys always seem so all important and sure of themselves at the depot... i asked the guy about the extender ring, if I need to put any silicone between it and the flange and he very reassuringly told me i don't need to use any kind of silicone or sealant of any kind, just go down to the hardware isle and get myself some bolts. Good advise? Also, he told me i needed to make sure i used brass screws and bolts. Is that true?

[Redwood]

Bad advice from Smockman once again! Stop talking to those idiots! Think about it! If these guys knew what they were doing why are they working for chump change at big box? I made more money plumbing today than he makes in a week!

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2/Redwood39/smockmanapron.jpg

If you use silicone make sure the existing flange has no trace of wax on it or, the silicone will not bond. If you can't get it totally clean use a thin smear of wax all the way around to seal it.

When the flange is at the right height only 1 wax ring is needed!

Use #12 screws either brass or stainless steell to screw it down and use 5/16" Brass closet bolts!

[erich]

thanks for the reply, i got it clean... i was wondering if i stack the two spacers do i have to bolt them together first or can i just stack them loose onto the flange and screw the top spacer down through the bottom one and into the subfloor?

[Basement_Lurker]

I sent a neighbor to HD with a plumbing list of fittings that I would need for a non-typical hot water heater install, and the HD guy totally re-wrote my list for my neighbor...all without even seeing the installation requirements....I was annoyed to say the least.

You will want to use silicone since you want it to be watertight, using adhesives won't ensure that.

Oatey makes a super thick wax ring, I think it's 1&3/4" high, maybe you can try that guy instead of using the spacers if you can find it? Some guys will sandwich two wax rings together to make up the height difference, but there is the risk that the wax rings won't seal together perfectly or that they will slip and constrict the trapway.

[Gary Swart]

If you get the flange to the proper height, do not use 2 wax rings or a thick one. The extra wax is not necessary and it will increase the possibility of failure of the wax ring. Also, do not use the wax ring with the plastic horn. Do us stainless steel screws to anchor everything down. Stainless steel is stronger than brass and will not corrode or rust like regular steel. Yes, they do cost more, but this is not the place to save pennies. Skip a latte if money is a problem. ;)

[erich]

cool, thanks! I got a no 3 wax ring, but with a plastic horn, and brass screws, was hoping to do this tonight, but might as well wait another day and take another trip.. I'll hit up aurora plumbing.

thanks very much for all the help

[Terry]

Aurora Plumbing?
We're always installing toilets in that neighborhood.

When I was young, I worked at Aurora Cycle and later at Picture Floor Plans across the street.

[noeffort]

If you get the flange to the proper height, do not use 2 wax rings or a thick one. The extra wax is not necessary and it will increase the possibility of failure of the wax ring. Also, do not use the wax ring with the plastic horn. Do us stainless steel screws to anchor everything down. Stainless steel is stronger than brass and will not corrode or rust like regular steel. Yes, they do cost more, but this is not the place to save pennies. Skip a latte if money is a problem. ;)
Curious, why not use a wax ring with a plastic horn?

[hj]

They cause a restriction and encourage splashing, either of which can cause leak problems. Wax rings with horns cause more problems than they cure.

[erich]

I used to go into aurora cycle all the time back in the day when i had my bike, distant memories...

[Redwood]

They cause a restriction and encourage splashing, either of which can cause leak problems. Wax rings with horns cause more problems than they cure.

I fully agree! I seldom use them!