Plumber's Putty around rim of kitchen sink??

[darla]

I am enduring a kitchen remodel. Yesterday they installed my stainless steel sink. After they left I noticed they used plumber's putty under the rim of the sink rather than caulk as it says in the instrucyions that came with the sink.

Is this going to be okay ? or should I ask them to take it up and use caulk?

[do it right]

I'm not a professional plumber, but I just installed a granite countertop, sink and faucet in one of our bathrooms. If your countertop is stone or solid surface, plumber's putty should not be used as it can discolor the countertop. The plumber's putty container I was going to use noted this in the application instructions on the container. I confirmed by asking the granite supplier.

James

[darla]

Thanks James, but my countertop is formica. Actually that is one of the reasons I am really concerned about getting a good watertight seal. I don't want the base material to swell and delaminate the top.

[krow]

Plumbers putty for a formica countertop is commom practice in sink installations, it will be fine

If you have a leak to effect the delamination of the countertop, no amount of silicone will stop it from doing that

[hj]

There is almost no sink that plumber's putty will seal properly. It is intended for areas under compression and a kitchen sink does not come under that description.

[Lakee911]

If the sink has clips that attach from underneath, will that be adequate compression?

Jason

[krow]

If the sink has clips that attach from underneath, will that be adequate compression?

Jason IMO, it is. The sink is stationary and clipped down with the screws.

[Cass]

I would not and have never used plumbers putty for a kitchen sink to counter seal.

[darla]

Thanks for the replies everyone

So....
krow says it is fine
and hj and Cass say it is not

If I ask the installers to change it - what reasons should I back it up with?

[krow]

I probably shouldn't answer this, but I can't think of a reason. The putty will already keep the water out of the underside of the sink , if placed in properly. He will have a good argument as to why it shouldn't be changed.

Some sinks that you buy will come with strips of putty (6 pieces , 12" long) to place as a sealant between the sink and the countertop. Plumbers putty is no different. Other sinks come with a foam type sealant premounted to the underside of the sink flange

You can do a little test to see if its warrented to call them back.

Take a few glasses of water and pour them around the sink and countertop (making sure to contain it within 2" of the sink. If the water leaks to the underside of the countertop, then ask them to come back and seal it so it doesn't leak.

[Cookie]

You could always wait until it leaks and then call them back, showing them the instructions.

[Cass]

To reiterate what Cookie said...When all else fails read the instructions.

[hj]

The leak might not come until after their warranty has expired, but it usually will come. The rim clips may help the putty seal, but I would not trust it myself. The "putty" that comes with some rims is usually an adhesive caulk, not putty.

[Lakee911]

Personally, I've always used silicone caulk for attaching the sink. I also always coat the underside of the counter in the sink and dishwasher area, and any cutouts with a liberal application--usually few coats--of RedGard just in case.

Jason

[Terry]

You can use clear polyseamseal around the SS sink.
I use it on porcelain lavs too.

[darla]

Thanks all, for your help and advice. I did call them back.

What they did was..remove a bit of the putty from around the edge and then put a bead of silicone around there.

I wonder if this gave me a double seal or if it just ruins the integrity of both products (putty and silicone). I guess time will tell. I am going to keep a close eye on it.

Thanks again!
Darla

[hj]

It did not ruin the integrity of either one, but a surface bead of sealer is no where near as effective as a bead under the rim, squeezed into contact with both surfaces. If you use silicone sealant, you can pretty much forget about ever removing the sink without damaging the countertop.

[Redwood]

When it does leak and it will the countertop will end up looking like one of those sponges that is dry and compressed that expands when wet...

[darla]

hj - I sure wish there was one right answer...and one way to do things...and that it was the right way. Thank you for your comments and advice. My sink should outlast the counter top. It is an 18 gauge Houzer - good quality. So hopefully there will be no reason to remove it.

Redwood...that is what happened to my last sink - water under the rim - formica base material puffed up and came apart from the formica. I guess that is why I am so worried about this new one.

[Cookie]

Darla,

Why not call them back and have them do it accordingly, to the manufacturer's instructions. I would.

[darla]

Cookie, I guess i am just not assertive enough or I would have insisted that it be reinstalled with silicone when they came back out.

It is hard to challenge a professional when they are doing a job they have been licensed to do.

If everyone here had told me silicone is the product to use I would have had a little more confidence.....but with some insisting that the putty is okay......I just felt like couldn't be sure that putty is wrong.

Thanks for replying, I appreciate your support!
Darla

[Redwood]

Redwood...that is what happened to my last sink - water under the rim - formica base material puffed up and came apart from the formica. I guess that is why I am so worried about this new one.

Which is why you should call them back to seal it properly with caulk!

[Cookie]

Then, I would consider this a growing experience. If you don't have anyone else to handle it, then it is up to you. To me, the bottom line is what the instructions said to do. This is what I would mention. I would just say something like, " According to the instructions it should be sealed with caulk, when can you come back out?"

[Redwood]

Kinda like "My way or, no way!" or, " You do have insurance that will cover the water damage don't you?" Two nice assertive lines!

[Cass]

There is a reason the Mfg. said to seal it with caulk.

To do it right the sink needs to be removed and the putty removed and counter surface cleaned good. The putty can leave a residue that will not allow the caulk to adhere to the counters surface then you will have the same problem, water leaking past the seal.

If they had followed the Mfg. instructions to begin with this thread wouldn't be here.

Always Read and follow the instructions. They are there for a reason.

[Herk]

Before self-rimming sinks, there were hudee rims. The cross-section of the hudee rim is a T shape, with a clip attaching to the bottom of the T.

It was common to use plumber's putty when using this rim, which was separate from the sink, and the rims were used on both kitchen sinks and bathroom basins. (As well as other types of sinks.)

When the self-rimming sinks came out, it was still common to use plumber's putty under the rim. The rim springs a bit and holds the putty in place.

You have to remember that silicone caulk did not always exist.

The only problem with putty is that it is an oil-based compound and can harm some plastics. For example, you should never use putty on a solid plastic bathroom sink top. It can also damage plastic shower strainers.

Silicone would always be my preferred choice for a kitchen sink. Faucets used to be designed for putty beneath them, but these days most faucets are not. Silicone is also a good choice there.

I have seen far too many problems with acrylic-based caulks in wet areas to recommend them. Polyseamseal used to be supplied with Kohler sinks and others, and if properly applied can last a long time. I've run into some really nasty uncured Polyseamseal beneath toilets and sink pedestals.

[construct30]

I guess I wonder where all the die hard plumber's putty people are on this one. I have said I use silicone on drains and got chewed up and spit out pretty much for being a hack. Silicone is my choice on just about everything like this, it works in place of plumber's putty for just about everything and does a better job IMO.

That being said, we used to always use plumber's putty under stainless steel kitchen sinks, if it has the clamps. It worked fine then no reason to believe it still won't. The cheap sinks are harder to get down with the harder plumbers putty, the welds on the bolt slots want to break loose. If they got it in and it isn't leaking you should never have a problem with it. My first choice would be silicone because it is much easier to work with, but if they got it to work I wouldn't change it unless it is a self rimming sink, then it needs the caulk to "stick" it down.

[darla]

I really appreciate all the responses on this subject. It certainly has been a learning experience.

Those here who are professional plumbers or remodelers.....how do you feel about your customers insisting on a product or method that you disagree with?

Is the customer always right ? Would you use a product they wanted even if you felt it wasn't the right application?

The main thing I learned here is not to be afraid to stay in the room while the professional is working and watch for things that aren't right before it is too late to change them. Sometimes it just feels awkward to stand around watching someone work..and I sure the worker doesnt care for it either.

Thanks again everyone.

[Cookie]

Darla,

I think you mentioned this was a kitchen remodel so unless, someone else handled things for you, you got some experience in these matters.

What you are asking about telling a pro how to do their job/what materials to apply etc, ... is not the same as what some here, including myself, have been telling you, simply about following the manufactuers directions.

Is the customer always right? I am a consumer like you, are you always right?

Who told you to stay in the same room and hover over anyone working? No one. I am just a consumer, but, Darla, if I were a pro, I would certainly mind and I am assertive enough to let you know.

Darla, you are going to get high blood pressure over this. Either fix it, or let it go.

[krow]

Those here who are professional plumbers or remodelers.....how do you feel about your customers insisting on a product or method that you disagree with?

Is the customer always right ? Would you use a product they wanted even if you felt it wasn't the right application?. As long as the customer pays their bill, they are always right. If the customer insists that I approach a job that I may disagree with, I may not be responsible for the outcome. If I suggest a procedure, then thats the procedure that I have had possitive results with.

I always tell my customers that absolutely nothing is impossible, it only takes to things to complete a job to satisfaction
1) the good will to do it

And
2) the money to back it up

I have the good will to do it, Does the customer have the money to back it up?

If my custmer wants a wc installed on the roof, I'll do it for the right amount of money ......... mind you, I would never recommend it.......... but I'll install it
(I hope you guys don't get a tissy from the last comment, but that will certainly satisfy the customer............ even if it is against my better judgement)

[Cass]

A w/c on the roof!!!...I would turn down the job...there are some things I wont do.

[Herk]

Those here who are professional plumbers or remodelers.....how do you feel about your customers insisting on a product or method that you disagree with?

Is the customer always right ? Would you use a product they wanted even if you felt it wasn't the right application?


It depends on the situation. If I were about to put putty beneath the rim of a stainless steel sink and the customer told me that they preferred to have silicone, or vice-versa, I'd shrug my shoulders and simply do it without complaint.

However, if it were something that they wanted me to do that I either knew was wrong or substandard, I would refuse to do it. If it came to it, I would walk away from the job. My knowledge and experience trump any hearsay theories that the customer may have. If I can't do it better than they can, they should be doing it.

I've told this story a thousand times and I'll probably tell it a thousand more. A very many years ago, an old plumber told me this story about how he was plumbing tract houses. It was back in the days of galvanized pipe. He was laying out his tools to get ready to finish the house when the developer came in and started telling him how he wanted something done.

He began putting his tools back into his tool box. He got up and started to walk out. The developer asked: "Where are you going?"

He said, "I was looking for work when I found this job," and walked away.

This story is something that I always keep in mind when I'm working - I always know that it's not the end of the world if I walk away. It's a great stress-reliever.

[darla]

Cookie, I am past it now. I was just thinking if I could have seen the plumber getting ready to use the putty it would have been much easier to switch to caulk before the job was done. That's why I made the remark about "hovering".

krow, interesting point of view:).

Herk, a good story - worth re-telling!

[Cookie]

Darla, I am glad your sink worked out, hope you enjoy it. :)
I am outa of here!

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